Wikipedia:Peer review/4X/archive1

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4X

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch • Watch peer review

This peer review discussion has been closed.

This article recently passed its GA review with flying colors. All along, I've hoped this article would reach FA status and had a feeling that this would be much harder to reach. The research here is solid, and the content is thorough. But "brilliant prose" isn't my strength. I would appreciate advise on how to reword different parts of this article to reach FA status. I know this may be selfish, but I'd like this to be a learning experience for me just as much as a chance to improve the article. Thanks in advance. Randomran (talk) 20:04, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


Review by Guyinblack25[edit]

I'm pretty bad at doing reviews in one sitting, so please bear with my disjointed review. I do plan on doing a full review as I think it's about time something this went to FAC. Here are some things that stood out to me, feel free to modify them as you think is needed.

The lead
  • Caption: Maybe try this.
    "Civilization II, is a prototypical example of a 4X strategy game."
  • This sentence seem out of place compared to the rest of the paragraph. I'm not entirely sure when it can go though, maybe at the end of the third paragraph. "One well-known 4X game is Sid Meier's Civilization..."
  • Missing comma:
    "...strong emphasis on economic and technological development, as well as a range of non-military routes..."
  • Give some context to the non-gamer.
    "This can cause 4X games to take longer play/complete (take your pick) than other strategy games, often requiring more than one playing session."
  • Minor tweak, may still need some rewording:
    "4X games are sometimes criticized for becoming tedious bynear the end of the game."
  • Split up and reword to improve flow:
    "Around the mid-1990s many 4X games were published, but in the late 1990s the real-time strategy genre outsold them, and for a few years publishers regarded 4X games as commercially risky"
    Try this:
    The 4X genre saw an increase in published game in the mid-1990s, but were outsold by the real-time strategy genre in the late 1990s. The decline caused publishers to view 4X games as commercially risky.
Definition
  • I would list the magazine the 1993 preview appeared in.
  • Shorten; excess detail doesn't really help the reader understand it any better:
    "...because players must make large investments in research in order to colonizeexplore and expand into every type of planetarea."
Difficulties in definition
  • I would combine the three shorter paragraphs at the end into one large paragraph since they are all related to how different sources see the genre.
  • "Various" doesn't really add much to the idea of the sentence. Also what are these authorities an authority of?"
    VariousGaming authorities have stated that 4X games are..."
  • "A few sources" doesn't sound too professional to me: Try this.
    "A few sourcesSeveral gaming websites have suggested that true 4X games must..."
  • Same thing here:
    "Others sources state that 4X games involve greater complexity and scale than other strategy games. A few rReviewers support this view, noting that 4X games are well known for their large detailed empires and complex gameplay. A few sSources distinguish 4X games by their "complex uses of..."
The fifth X: eXperience
  • Tweak to improve flow:
    "In 2002, with the pending release of Master of Orion III, there weresparked claims that thisit would be the first '5X game'"
  • I believe a semicolon should be used instead of a colon:
    "Master of Orion III received mixed comments from reviewers and players:; a few liked the experience..."
  • "unrest or revolt" or "unrest and revolt"?
Gameplay
  • Minor tweak, just sounds better to me:
    "The gameplay involves constructingbuilding an empire..."
Research and technology
  • Caption, tweak to maybe sound more objective:
    Note the complexmultiple branching paths between technologies.
  • I think a semicolon or emdash would work better here. But that's just me:
    "4X games typically feature a technology tree,; a series of advancements..."
  • Longer doesn't seem like the right adjective here, but I haven't played to many 4X games:
    "Technology trees in 4X games are typically longerlarger than in other strategy games..."
  • This looks like complex wording that could be more concise:
    "It is therefore sometimes necessary toThis can first require the research of several civilian technologies first in order to build a more productive economy."
  • Trimming redundancy:
    "Another reason why rResearch is especially important in 4X games is because battles are often won by superior military technology or greater numbers, rather than by ingenious tactics."
  • More trimming:
    "...allow players to improve their technology by building certain structures which grant access to more advanced..."
  • More trimming:
    "Typically, empires must generate research resources, which are to be invested in a new technology."
  • More trimming:
    "However, methods of providing resources for research vary from oneby 4X game to another."
  • The sentence structure seems off and I think it makes it hard to convey the idea.
    "In some games no buildings are needed at all, in some cases research productivity increases greatly if the right buildings are present, and in others research can only be done if research-oriented buildings are present.
    Try this:
    "Some games do not require buildings, while others require research-oriented buildings to either allow or increase research productivity."
Combat
  • Trimming redundancy:
    "Combat is an highly important part of 4X gameplay, because 4X games..."
  • More trimming:
    "...control over battles, victory is usually determined by superior numbers and technology rather than by ingenious tactics."
  • Tweaking, but I'm not too certain about this one:
    "Researching new technology will grant access to new combat units.; Ssome 4X games go so far aseven offer the ability toallow the research of different unit components."
Peaceful competition
  • Trimming, the "an" is distributed by the "or":
    "...diplomatic relations are restricted to a binary choice between an ally or an enemy."
  • Reword:
    "Aside from making allies and enemies, this includes the abilityplayers are also able to trade resources and information with rivals players."
  • Unneeded comma—The two parts are related ideas. It might flow better to combine these two sentences:
    "For example, some 4X games offer victory to a player who achieves a certain score, or the highest score after a certain number of turns., while Mmany 4X games award victory to an empire that makes its culture predominant over their rivals."
  • Minor trimming:
    "Other games offer victory to the first player to complete an awe-inspiring..."
  • I would combine these two sentences together also:
    "Several 4X games award "diplomatic victory" to anyone whowhoever can win an election decided by their rival players. The Space Empires series awards victory to someone who keeps the galaxy at, or maintain peace for a specified number of turns."
  • This sentence seems redundant to me, especially with the first sentence of the paragraph. "With these victory conditions, players can sometimes win a 4X game without engaging in extermination."
Complexity
  • Tweak to give the reader some more content and help flow into the next sentence about graphics:
    "4X games are known for their complexity gameplay, as well as their strategic depth."
  • Combine the two sentences:
    "Whereas other strategy games focus on combat, 4X games also offer more detailed control over diplomacy, economics, and research. This; createsing opportunities for diverse economic and diplomatic strategies."
  • Tweak the last part:
    "This also challenges the player to manage several strategies simultaneously, and plan for the long-term objectives."
  • The second paragraph names a lot of games as examples. I would remove the game titles and stick to generalized ideas.
  • Tweak two sentences for redundancy and flow:
    "In order tTo experience a detailed model of a large empire, 4X games are designed with a complex set of game rules. F; for example, the player's productivity may be limited by pollution, as seen in Master of Orion and Civilization II."
  • More consolidating for flow:
    "4X games often model political challenges, such as civil disorder in Space Empires V and the Civilization series. A few 4X games include or a senate, —which can penalize Galactic Civilizations players by voting their political party out of office, or force Civilization II playersthem to make peace."
  • This sentence seems tacked on and is redundant with the next paragraph: "Players must master the complexities of their nation's economy, technology, and government in order to overcome these challenges."
  • Tweak:
    "Such complexity means thatrequires players mustto manage a larger amount of information than other strategy games."
  • More consolidating:
    "Game designers often organize empire management into different interface screens and modes. Many 4X games have a; for example, separate screens for diplomacy, for managing each colony individual areas, orand for managing battle tactics."
  • Tweak:
    "Sometimes a systems becomesare intricate enough to resemble a minigames."
  • The word detailed seems out of place, but that's just me. If it stays in you need a comma between "large" and "detailed":
    "Since 4X games involve managing a large detailed empire..."
  • Tweak:
    "Single player games may takelast multiple sessions overspanning multiple days..."
  • I would wikilink "beer-and-pretzels" to Beer and pretzels game.
  • Tweak and missing comma:
    "In the early stages of a game, this is not necessarilyalways a problem..."
  • Minor trimming:
    "...but players have criticized these governors for making bad decisions."
  • The last part of the last paragraph is missing some sentence to segue from developer efforts to the efforts' reception. Try this: "Such approaches have been generally well received, though some more than others."
  • Why was Master of Orion III's reception mixed? The sentence doesn't provide much info and is not a good way to end a section. No need for a lot of detail, but at least mention what the approach was.
Origin
  • Minor tweaking, just sounds better to me:
    "The firstEarly 4X games were influenced by..."
  • This sentence sounds off to me, mainly the underlined part, and I'm not sure how to reword it or what is meant to be conveyed. "...Reach for the Stars began to represent the relationship between economic growth, technological progress, and conquest."
  • Minor tweaking, I don't think "By" is the appropriate word:
    "ByIn 1990, Sid Meier released Civilization..."
  • The third paragraph seems a bit out of place as it is. I would consider combining it and the second one together since they both discuss influential titles.
  • In the last paragraph, I would link "Star Trek games" as "Star Trek games".
  • Grammar tweak:
    "This game is considered a classic for its elegant but, yet deep game design, and; future 4X games would be compared to the standard it set."
Peak
  • "But" is a weasel word in this case:
    "Buty the late 1990s, real-time strategy genre began outselling turn-based games by the late 1990s."
  • Minor trimming:
    "And dDespite the excitement over Master of Orion III, its..."
  • I think "release" or "develop" is more appropriate here, but that's just me.
    "Game publishers eventually became risk-averse to buildingreleasing 4X games."
Recent history
  • The paragraphs seem a bit short and choppy. I would consolidate them some. Like adding the last single sentence paragraph to the previous one. Not sure what
  • Unneeded comma:
    "...such as Imperium Galactica in 1997, and Starships Unlimited in 2001."
  • In the first paragraph about Sins of a Solar Empire, was the gameplay the reason for it earning awards or the marketing of the gameplay? Can you clarify this some?

That's all I have time for right now. I'll try to do more sections later. (Guyinblack25 talk 21:21, 11 July 2008 (UTC))[reply]

There's part two. Once again, sorry for the disjointed review.(Guyinblack25 talk 15:33, 12 July 2008 (UTC))[reply]
Part three—sorry again. I should get to the "History" section sometime this weekend. (Guyinblack25 talk 21:21, 18 July 2008 (UTC))[reply]
And done. Sorry for the disjointed review over the span of two weeks. I hope it helps. (Guyinblack25 talk 18:44, 24 July 2008 (UTC))[reply]
  • Thanks a million. This is by far one of the most helpful peer reviews I have ever seen. I appreciate the time you put into it. I incorporated virtually all the suggestions. Randomran (talk) 03:31, 26 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Mika1h (talk · contribs)

  • Thanks for pointing that out. I added a fair use rationale to the image now. Randomran (talk) 00:35, 26 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Ealdgyth (talk · contribs)

  • You said you wanted to know what to work on before taking to FAC, so I looked at the sourcing and referencing with that in mind. I reviewed the article's sources as I would at FAC.
Hope this helps. Please note that I don't watchlist Peer Reviews I've done. If you have a question about something, you'll have to drop a note on my talk page to get my attention. (My watchlist is already WAY too long, adding peer reviews would make things much worse.) 12:25, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
I know you might not check back in, but I finally undertook the task of improving the references. Some truly unreliable information was removed. But in other cases, information could be supported by other more reliable references, and the article looks stronger for it. There are still a few references from Rock Paper Shotgun and Game Zone, but they are considered reliable sources according to Wikipedia:VG/RS. I still tried to minimize these, and I think they would even be considered a decent exception to WP:SPS since a few of them are interviews with the makers of the games, who are being quoted for authoritative information about their area of expertise (the games they made). Randomran (talk) 00:30, 26 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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