Wikipedia:Peer review/Parliament of 1327/archive1

Parliament of 1327

Hi all, I'd appreciate the input of my worthies and betters in suggesting ways of improving this article with a view of seeing it promoted in the (relatively near rather than historically near!) future. I think I've about exhausted the (undoubtedly limited) depths of my own copy-editing skills, so am particularly looking for advice in that area, but all constructive criticism is welcome. Thanking you all in advance! —SerialNumber54129 ^{paranoia /cheap shit room} 17:57, 25 March 2018 (UTC)

Comments by Charles Edward I am review this article now and will post a review. I have been a past contributed to Wonderful Parliament, Merciless Parliament, and quite a few 100 years war related articles. I am well read on period. I have also wrote several featured articles and given featured article reviews over the years, so hopefully I can offer some helpful advice. :) I look forward to reading the article! —Charles Edward ^{(Talk | Contribs)} 15:43, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

Prose

• "Edward II had become increasingly unpopular with his nobility through the course of his reign, predominantly because of his promotion of court favourites, the patronage he devoted to them, and his perceived ill-treatment of his nobles." - perhaps: "Edward II had become increasingly unpopular with the English nobility through the course of his reign, predominantly because of his promotion of court favourites, the patronage he devoted to them, and his perceived ill-treatment the nobles."
• "By 1325, even his wife despised him, to such an extent that towards the end of that year she joined with Roger Mortimer, 1st Earl of March in France—whom her husband had previously exiled—probably entering into a relationship with him, and ultimately, the following year, invading England with him to depose her husband. She had travelled to France with her son, Edward, Earl of Chester and he returned with her." - better: "By 1325, even his wife despised him. Towards the end of that year she took their son, Edward, Earl of Chester, to France and joined Roger Mortimer, 1st Earl of March—whom her husband had previously exiled—probably entering into a relationship with him, and ultimately, the following year, invading England with him to depose her husband. "
• " The King was accused of various offences, ranging from his promotion of favourites to destruction of the church, and that, fundamentally, he had betrayed his coronation oath to the people." - better: " The King was accused of various offences, ranging from the promotion of favourites to destruction of the church, resulting in a betrayal of his coronation oath to the people."
• "He was crowned on 1 February 1327; his father remained imprisoned, being moved around to prevent attempted rescues; he died—presumed killed—in September that year, probably at Mortimer's orders. Crises continued for him and Isabella, who were de facto rulers of the country, partly because of his own greed, mismanagement, and mishandling of the new King. Edward III led a coup d'état against Mortimer in 1330, overthrew him, and began his personal rule." - better: "He was crowned on 1 February 1327. In the aftermath of the parliamentary session, his father remained imprisoned, being moved around to prevent attempted rescues; he died—presumed killed—in September that year, probably at Mortimer's orders. Crises continued for him and Isabella, who were de facto rulers of the country, partly because of his own greed, mismanagement, and mishandling of the new King. Edward III led a coup d'état against Mortimer in 1330, overthrew him, and began his personal rule."
• "King Edward II of England had many court favourites, such as Piers Gaveston and Hugh Despenser the Younger who were unpopular with Edward's nobility." - better: "King Edward II of England had many court favourites who were unpopular with Edward's nobility, such as Piers Gaveston and Hugh Despenser the Younger."
• Overall the prose needs a good copy edit. It is currently in a fair state, but needs some polishing to improve it to FA quality, if that is your goal. Check out WP:COPYEDIT for some good advice for improving the prose yourself, or check with Wikipedia:WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors if you'd like some help.

Suggestions

• A link to British history portal
• There are no navigation templates. There must be some that could be added? This may be out of your scope but is a good idea (maybe I will do it): create a template for navigating all the historical English parliament sessions.

Summary Overall, this article is very comprehensive and well researched! I found it a great read. I found no MOS issues, issues with citations, and my brief fact check revealed no issues. The primary issue I found was the prose. There are a few places it could be better polished, including the lead. I think this is the issue currently precluding it from featured article status. I did not do a copyright review on the images. Congrats, great article! This would easily pass good article review. I have went ahead and upgraded it to B quality. —Charles Edward ^{(Talk | Contribs)} 20:24, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

• @Charles Edward: Many thanks for your kind review. I have *stolen* most of your suggest re-workings, as well as adding a portal link (somewaht ironically, since it seems that they're about to be abolished  :) but in pride of place...is the Navigation box, as per your suggestion. Now it just needs expanding. I do have a bit of a blind spot when it comes to my own writing I'm afraid: a gimlet eye such as that possessed by Tim riley or Eric Corbett is a must in these circumstances I know, but I'll have a good look through those links—and possibly look in at GoCE, which I've heard about but never utilised. Thanks again for the samshing review! —SerialNumber54129 ^{paranoia /cheap shit room} 14:34, 13 April 2018 (UTC)

SC

Lead

• "Edward, Earl of Chester, to France and joined Roger Mortimer, 1st Earl of March" worth linking these two?
• "even his wife despised him": Probably worth naming and linking Isabella of France, given her importance (and the fact you refer to her in the next para)
• "However": seen by many as being unusable at the beginning of a sentence. (I'm more flexible, but once seen by the type of reviewer who takes umbrage at such use, they'll bring all the rest of their grammatical peccadilloes to bear)
• Westminster palace should be the Palace of Westminster (unless it was known by the former name at the time)
• "The lords sent another"; best to link lords to something, as it won't be clear to non-Brits

• Punctuation goes outside the quote marks if it is not a full sentence (see WP:LQ). I swapped over in the ‎Background section, but you'll need to go over the rest

Done to "Summoning of parliament" – more to follow. Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 10:39, 16 April 2018 (UTC)

Continuing...

Summoning of parliament

• "the historian Ian Mortimer, was what to do with Edward II. Mortimer…" I think we need to clarify that the second Mortimer was Roger, not Ian.

The King's absence

• You give the full name and job role of "Sir William Trussell, the parliamentary proctor (or speaker)", despite having done so in the para above
• therwise stand in their way." – there is a closing quote mark here, but nothing to open the quote

Done to the end of The King's absence. More to follow. Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 11:37, 17 April 2018 (UTC)

Constitutional crisis

• "as Isabella and Mortimer themselves based their rule on." This doesn't quite work and needs a tweak to make it work.

Done to the end of Tuesday, 13 January. - SchroCat (talk) 20:26, 18 April 2018 (UTC)

The King's response

• "the Queen explicitly forbade at members of the Franciscans": needs tweaking

Recall

• "Interestingly, official records regnally date the entire parliament as I Edward III rather than 20 Edward II." Best without "interestingly"; I have no idea what the rest of the sentence means! "I Edward III"? Needs explanation or a note...

Down to the end of Later events; I hope to finally finish this tomorrow! Cheers – SchroCat (talk) 19:55, 19 April 2018 (UTC)

Long-term impact

• Any reason "House of Commons" is in quote marks?
• "enrolled onto the parliament roll" A bit of a rollover there - "entered onto the roll"?

That's it from me for now. I'll have to go over it all again at some point, to try and smooth out some of the prose in places, but that'll be for another day. Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 11:55, 20 April 2018 (UTC)

Cheers SchroCat, many thanks—I'll crack on with your suggestions ASAP. I appreciate it all the more knowin how damnably dull you found it!!! :p  ;) "What greater love hath a man have, than he bores his rocks off for them" eh! Take care! —SerialNumber54129 ^{paranoia /cheap sh*t room} 15:04, 20 April 2018 (UTC)

Cheers, SchroCat, with this edit I hopefully addressed your suggestions—I re-wrote the complex sentences (including 20 Edward II, etc., which I couldn't be arsed to explain—we should avoid unnecessarilly technical language, I guess, so hopefully makes more sense (and regnal years are still linked). Thanks again! —SerialNumber54129 ^{paranoia /cheap sh*t room} 18:17, 20 April 2018 (UTC)

Comments

• How come some of the pull quote attributions are left-aligned, and others centred?
• Suggest scaling up the invasion map, and should include a data source on the image description page for the route. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:53, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
  • Thanks very much Nikkimaria—I scaled up the map to double size (better), and have centred all the source/quote alignments in the quoteboxes (I'm pretty easy whether it's left or centre, tbh, so if anyone thinks they should be all to the left that's fine too).
    As for File:Isabella's_invasion_route_(1326).png—I see our very own chief castilion, Hchc2009 made that map (very nice it is too!)—Hchc, can you advise as to whether you used any particular source for the routes? (Although it was eight years ago now-! I daresay the information can be sourced from Ian Mortimer's or Ormrod's bios if necessary). Thanks NM! (And Hchc if you can help),. Cheers, —SerialNumber54129 ^{paranoia /cheap shit room} 09:59, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
    • Pretty sure I can fish out where that came from... Hchc2009 (talk) 16:43, 16 May 2018 (UTC)
      • Thanks, Hchc2009, appreciate that (apologies for not getting back to you sooner—I took my eye off the page, and, you know—once it slips down the watchlist!). Cheers, —SerialNumber54129 ^{paranoia /cheap sh*t room} 19:09, 20 May 2018 (UTC)
        • I'm pretty sure I'd have got the dates and routes from Doherty, P.C. (2003) Isabella and the Strange Death of Edward II. London: Robinson. ISBN 1-84119-843-9. I can double check if nec? Hchc2009 (talk) 16:59, 26 May 2018 (UTC)