Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Entertainment/2008 September 29

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September 29[edit]

Vaughan Williams and Andrew Lloyd Weber[edit]

So, I have a question: is it known whether or not Andrew Lloyd Weber deliberately riffed off the first movement of Vaughan Williams' "London Symphony" when he was composing the main theme for his "Phantom of the Opera"? The crescendo of both pieces is nearly identical. MelancholyDanish (talk) 06:33, 29 September 2008 (UTC)MelancholyDanish

Incidentally, it appears that Pink Floyd are convinced he stole those chords from them: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Phantom_of_the_Opera_(1986_musical)#Accusation_of_plagiarism MelancholyDanish (talk) 06:49, 29 September 2008 (UTC)MelancholyDanish
I don't know either piece, so can't really comment, but it is surely a matter of opinion whether the Phantom sounds like the London Symphony. By the way, it's only Roger Waters (former Floyd mainman) who is accusing Lloyd Webber of ripping off the Floyd track. --Richardrj talk email 08:36, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
I'm not up on my V-W symphonies, or Phantom for that matter, but it can be a lot more serious than just a matter of opinion. There have been various legal cases where one composer successfuly argued plagiarism by another. Even if the second guy orchestrated the note sequence in a completely different way, used it in a completely different genre, or whatever, a succession of notes in one piece either is identical (or nearly identical) to a succession of notes in another piece, or it's not. If it comes to a court, the judge has to decide whether the plagiarism was intentional and deliberate, or entirely unconscious. Even if the latter, the judge can still find in favour of the first composer. When asked to write the lyrics for "Goldfinger" (1964), Leslie Bricusse and Anthony Newley immediately thought of the metre of Henry Mancini's "Moon River" (1961). Whether they ever passed their thoughts on to the composer John Barry, I don't know, but the fact remains that, if played in the same key, the striking first three notes of these two songs are identical, and depending on the style used by the performer, the metre can also be identical. Mancini might have had a case if he ever wanted to pursue the matter. -- JackofOz (talk) 22:10, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
On the other hand, there are only a finite (though large) number of ways that a song can be constructed and still be familiar enough to the audience to be pleasing. For example, how many basic rock songs are written with a simple I-IV-V chord progression, or even more restrictive, are written in 16-bar blues form. Working in these simple forms, they can get unintentionally repetitive, especially over short sequences. Once you strip down a tune to is base melody, you could probably pull the same 5-6 note sequence out of hundreds of pieces of music. Its no proof that they all copied from one source. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 02:47, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
Oh, indeed. No proof at all, except where there's evidence to point the finger. That's why I said "it can be a lot more serious". -- JackofOz (talk) 04:06, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

To return to the original question, this might help to explain... http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=tud0q5p-Crw&feature=related

Songs Beginning with "And"[edit]

Can anyone recommend songs beginning with the word "and"? They tend to have a certain quality of excellence and dreamlike surrealism which is lacking in other songs.

I can name four off-hand:
"Sleep the Clock Around," by Belle & Sebastian
"Walk On," by U2
"Matthew 25," by Misty Edwards
and "Here I Dreamt I was an Architect," by the Decemberists —Preceding unsigned comment added by MelancholyDanish (talkcontribs) 07:41, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
"That's What Friends Are For" by Bacharach/Sager. And, of course, "And I Love You So", by Andy Williams. -- JackofOz (talk) 08:09, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
Jack, as a scrupulous punctuator, I'm sure you'll take this in the spirit in which it was intended... song titles are enclosed in quotation marks, italics are for album titles. --Richardrj talk email 08:32, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
And thanks, Richard. And I will take that advice to heart and try to be better in future.  :) -- JackofOz (talk) 21:44, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
"And She Was" by Talking Heads seems to fit the bill perfectly. "And she was drifting through the backyard/And she was taking off her dress/And she was moving very slowly/Rising up above the earth/Moving into the universe/Drifting this way and that/Not touching ground at all/Up above the yard..." --Richardrj talk email 08:25, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
"My Way (song)". Also the hymn "And Can it Be..." Neither particularly known for their surrealism, but both pretty good. DJ Clayworth (talk) 17:06, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
"And I Am Telling You I'm Not Going" "The End" by The Beatles ("and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make"). Corvus cornixtalk 18:50, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
I've just remembered "Jerusalem": And did those feet in ancient time ..... -- JackofOz (talk) 21:48, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
Oh, William Blake! Of course! 66.112.243.177 (talk) 21:56, 29 September 2008 (UTC)MelancholyDanish
And I Love Her, at least in title; "The Drinking Song" by Moxy Fruvous. Adam Bishop (talk) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.210.170.49 (talk) 02:34, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
Die Moritat von Mackie Messer, though the 'and' is usually changed in English translations. And No More Shall We Part. Algebraist 09:46, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
Would Metallica's "...And Justice for All" count?--droptone (talk) 11:33, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
Meat Loaf - "Couldn't have said it better (myself)". Starting text: And you said nothing at all. Well, I couldn't have said it better myself. --Constructor 16:52, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
Minus the Bear has a song on their album Highly Refined Pirates called Thanks For The Killer Game of Crisco Twister that starts off "And then we all bought yachts/and raced up to the islands" 12.155.80.115 (talk) 16:35, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
And I Love You So? Confusing Manifestation(Say hi!) 03:15, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
That's the one I referred to way up above. I'm almost certain Andy Williams did a version; I'd forgotten about Perry Como. -- JackofOz (talk) 21:52, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

TV episode or movie with spaceship in a living universe[edit]

I've seen an episode or movie several years ago where a spaceship travels through an universe, searching an escape (?) but find that the universe behaves much like a body and may destroy them if they don't escape within a fixed time. I thought, it was from Outer Limits but it doesn't seem to be so. So can anyone tell me what it was? Maybe it was a movie of it's own but it wasn't anything where a micro-uboat is inserted in a body. Sadly, internet search doesn't yield results. The episode or movie was in color. --Constructor 11:21, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

I would have thought Fantastic Voyage or Innerspace; this might be a Lost in Space episode. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 19:58, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
No, it's not a miniaturisation into a human body. I don't remember much of it but the outside of the space never is shown and they got there from normal space. I don't remember exactly, how they got there. Maybe it was a warp that went wrong or they just traveled into unknown territory. That the universe may be alive is mentioned by someone but it's probably not a central part of the story. --Constructor 21:08, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
PS: It could have been some Star Trek episode, they also often featured such ideas. --Constructor 21:16, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
Any of these: The Cloud (Star Trek: Voyager), The Immunity Syndrome (Star Trek), Bliss (Star Trek: Voyager), Green-Eyed Monster? JessicaThunderbolt 21:31, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
I don't think so, but maybe it was The Cloud. It's too long since I saw it. I thought, the space was much brighter than on the picture. I remember not much story. It must be around 10 years since I saw it. Thanks! --Constructor 04:25, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
I thought of a few more; Where No One Has Gone Before (TNG), Where No Man Has Gone Before (TOS), Star Trek V: The Final Frontier. JessicaThunderbolt 11:14, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
I'm afraid it's none of these. Please don't spend too much time for me. --Constructor 16:48, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
You can eliminate "Where No Man" & "Where No One"; not living universes. "Immunity Syndrome", "The Cloud", & "Bliss" sound good; my $'d be on "Immunity", since it's likely to have been syndicated more widely, & so more readily seen. TREKphiler hit me ♠ 08:22, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Harland Svare[edit]

Just an FYI, which is factually stated incorrect. I was googling Harland Svare, former coach and NFL player. Being from Clarkfield, Minnesota myself, I know there is not a Clarksville, MN. Harland Svare was born in Clarkfield and not in the fictional Clarksville. Thought I would let you know. If you don't believe me, look it up because in a town of about 1200, you know these things. Thank you for the attention.

Sincerely,

Lyndon Roschen —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.73.116.54 (talk) 19:14, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

A quick google search shows that you are correct, and I have changed the article accordingly. Fribbler (talk) 19:20, 29 September 2008 (UTC)


The Interests of Dave Carter[edit]

I've started listening to the music of the late Dave Carter, who seems (from what I've heard) to be a rather brilliant poet, and I see from the Wikipedia page that he was interested in both archetypal psychology and Charismatic Christianity. Has there been any other person (ever) who harbored this curious (not to say mad or eccentric) pair of fascinations in their heart of hearts?

Sorry for the Dickensian twist at the end of that sentence! It just comes out sometimes :) MelancholyDanish (talk) 22:03, 29 September 2008 (UTC)MelancholyDanish

There's never any need to apologise for Dickensian twists, MD. Carry on. (Oh, I have no idea about your question, sorry.) -- JackofOz (talk) 22:41, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
Not exactly the same, but Robertson Davies was interested in archetypical psychology and hagiography; see The Deptford Trilogy for example. Adam Bishop (talk) 02:31, 30 September 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.210.170.49 (talk)