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April 7

Prevalence of octaves in music

In music, why are there so many octaves? I notice in some cases the octaves can be very pronounced, as in Beethoven's Fur Elise or Brahm's Lullaby. 140.254.136.179 (talk) 16:54, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

As it says in the intro to the Octave article: The octave relationship is a natural phenomenon that has been referred to as the "basic miracle of music", the use of which is "common in most musical systems" 217.44.50.87 (talk) 17:04, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The octave makes sense if you understand the physics. For any arbitrary note, there will be some fundamental frequency to that note. Every whole number multiple of that frequency is an octave higher in pitch. Every whole number division of that frequency is an octave lower in pitch. Take any arbitary number. Say 350 Hz. The octave higher in pitch will be 700 Hz. The octave in pitch higher than that will be 1400 Hz, and so on. The note 175 Hz would be one octave lower. Other notes are based on fractions other than whole number fractions. This, the note we call a perfect fifth is the note that is exactly 3/2 of the root frequency. For 350 Hz, the note at 525 Hz would be the perfect fifth. We call an octave an "octave" because the Western music scale is build on 8 of these fractions. See Just intonation. These 8 fractions are 1/1 (the root), 9/8 (second) 5/4 (third) 4/3 (fourth) 3/2 (fifth) 5/3 (sixth) 15/8 (seventh) and 2/1 (octave). To make music easier to read, we assigned letters to specific notes in there, and then to make music easily transposable, we fudged the fractions a bit (see Musical temperament) so that the same notes are identical regardless of which note you start at (i.e. your musical key. Music is math. --Jayron 32 17:41, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

We call it a fifth because it is fifth in a diatonic scale, but the fifth is not always perfect. OP might be interested in Equal_temperament#Comparison_to_just_intonation, which quantifies the "fudge factor" you mention, and shows that the root and octave are the same in either case, but the intervening notes have some "error" in equal temperament, with respect to just intonation. There's also something special about our perception of these frequencies. Octave_illusion is one example of how our brains do interesting things with octaves. Here is a nice article called "Why do octaves sound the same?" [1] that addresses some of these acoustic and perceptual issues (this was prepared to pass a qualifying exam in biophysics at Harvard. So while it presents some WP:OR and hypotheses, it's still pretty high quality and well referenced). SemanticMantis (talk) 19:45, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I think these answers are somewhat inaccurate. What makes different pitches sound good together is alignment of their overtones. In most instruments, the overtones have frequencies that are rough multiples of the base frequency. The first overtone (2 × base frequency) is an octave up from the base frequency, the second overtone (3 × base frequency) is a perfect fifth up from that, the third overtone (4 × base frequency) is a perfect fourth up from that (two octaves above the base frequency), and the next two overtones form a major triad with the third overtone. That's why those intervals are so common in music.

The overtones are not exact multiples of the base frequency, so the best-sounding intervals are not exact integer ratios. This is independent of temperament. When a piano is nominally tuned to equal temperament, the frequency ratios between keys are actually somewhat larger than

{\sqrt[{12}]{2}}

. The ratio varies across the keyboard and depends on the characteristics of that particular piano. This is called stretched tuning. For instruments that can play arbitrary pitches, such as violins or human voices, good players/singers match the overtones by ear to lock in the chord. Either way, the result is an octave that probably isn't exactly 2:1. -- BenRG (talk) 20:27, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

There's certainly room for more than one approach to this question, and perhaps even more than one "right" answer. But overtones must not be strictly necessary, because intervals (sequential or synchronous) can sound good or bad (and be discriminated) even when only pure tones (i.e. sine waves) are being used, and those, by definition, have no overtones. Otherwise I think you're right, overtones are often important for understanding why we like certain intervals/dyads. SemanticMantis (talk) 21:28, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Here is a study that investigates what intervals infants can discriminate [2], and asks if there is any evidence for "natural" intervals. They conclude there is something special about the fifth and the octave that is not simply a matter of enculturation (that is why they studied infants and not adults). They say:

“

the perceptual similarity of tones an octave apart is thought to be the only property of intervals that is attributable to the structure of the auditory system.

”

So that's one potential answer: the octave is prevalent in music because the structure of our auditory system reacts in a special way to octaves. See here [3] and refs 17-20 therein for more about the special status of the octave in human auditory apparatus and perception. SemanticMantis (talk) 20:14, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Why only Siamese cats used on Perry Mason TV series?

Why only Siamese cats used on Perry Mason TV series? Regardless of the episode--Careless Kitten, Caretaker's Cat or Silent Partner, ever time a cat appears in Perry Mason it is ALWAYS a Siamese cat! WHY? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:6000:9FC0:20:1C00:5C3F:B25B:448A (talk) 22:24, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Have you tried contacting the show's producers? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:42, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I doubt the producers would even reply to just a lone fan.

There is a Perry Mason wiki though. It has edits as recently as yesterday. You might want to ask there. They would probably be the people who would have the most knowledge about the show who would actually respond to a fan's questions. Dismas|^(talk) 22:57, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Isn't that show from the 50's or so? Those producers are long gone. No? If not, I doubt they are actively involved with the show nowadays in 2016. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 05:22, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Among Perry Mason directors who are still alive, I did find Richard Donner, Vincent McEveety, Arthur Hiller, Arthur Marks and Robert Ellis Miller. But I'm not sure they'd respond to "What kind of cats did you use on Perry Mason and why?" --Jayron 32 11:00, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. But would this be a question for the directors? Or the producers? Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 18:13, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Since shows of that era often saved money by reusing set pieces, extras, guest stars, etc., it wouldn't surprise me at all of they only had one cat "on staff", and that cat happened to be a Siamese. Or perhaps, they had one cat family "on staff", all of which were related, and Siamese. StuRat (talk) 05:36, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Lurch word

In the Addams family, Lurch used to say a certain word when asked to do something he didnt want to do or was 'greeting' visitors at the door. What was the word?--178.101.224.162 (talk) 23:34, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I don't remember a specific word. Ted Cassidy had a wonderful variety of groans like this one. MarnetteD|Talk 23:43, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Yes thats the one: URRRRGH!!!--178.101.224.162 (talk) 01:50, 9 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Could it be You Rang? --Jayron 32 00:40, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I don't remember anything other than the groan MarnetteD linked to. "You rang?" was what he said when he was summoned by the family. Clarityfiend (talk) 02:32, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

He used to say "Follow me" when admitting visitors, and roughly drag off the gentleman's hat. --TrogWoolley (talk) 09:34, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Good memory TrogWoolley and then they would get it back all crumpled up when the left the house in terror or bewilderment :-) MarnetteD|Talk 16:07, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

He squeezed their hat and head from above, and they then ducked down to avoid the pressure, leaving their hat in Lurch's hand. StuRat (talk) 18:19, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]