Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2022 August 6

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August 6

United States presidential line of succession

Two quick questions about the United States presidential line of succession. (One) Is there any reason why the Framers would put the Speaker of the House "higher" than the Senator President Pro Tem? I always thought that -- generally speaking -- the Senate was the more "esteemed" body of the Congress. And that Senators are more "important" and more "influential" than Reps. More political power and prestige. As a general matter. That being the case, I'd have assumed that the leader of the Senate would carry more weight than the leader of the House. So, any reason / rationale for this ordering? (Two) Also ... any reason why the Framers would not insure that the #3 and #4 "replacement" positions -- the Speaker of the House and the Senator President Pro Tem -- conform to the same party as the President/Vice President being replaced? It would seem unnecessarily disruptive to have the nation (leaders) change parties altogether, on top of the disruption of losing both a President and a VP. No? So, any reason / rationale for this "omission"? Thanks. 32.209.55.38 (talk) 21:38, 6 August 2022 (UTC)

• Originally, Senators were not directly elected by “the People”, they were indirectly elected (or even just appointed) by their State Legislatures. Congressmen, on the other hand, were directly elected by the people of their districts. It was felt that a directly elected official should take precedence over a State appointed official. Blueboar (talk) 22:01, 6 August 2022 (UTC)

• Blueboar is correct. Additionally, the development of the First Party System and the Second Party System happened after the development of the U.S. Constitution. In fact, George Washington's farewell address warns about factionalism. So in general, the existence of parties wasn't something that the founding fathers were thinking about when they designed the system. And, in fact, it was common in the first few elections for the U.S. Vice President to be from a different party, such as John Adams with Thomas Jefferson, which wasn't resolved until the 12th Amendment in 1804. Andre🚐 22:05, 6 August 2022 (UTC)

• Our article on the Presidential Succession Act explains it. Tldr: from 1792 to 1886 the order of succession was indeed VP, pres pro tem, speaker. It only took its current configuration, more or less, in 1947. The Constitution, prior to the 1967 25th Amendment, only specifies that the VP succeeds the President and that Congress decides from there. Edit: Interestingly, Truman's motivation for urging the re-adding of Congressional officers next in line in succession seems to be entirely non-cynical and for the good of the country -- it's not that his Secretary of State was incompetent, just not a politician of the people.

I recall a recent question on this desk about government officials serving two branches simultaneously -- that's apparently why legal scholars argued the revised PSA required an amendment to be Constitutional. SamuelRiv (talk) 22:19, 6 August 2022 (UTC)

• Something else to consider… the Vice President of the US is also the actual “President of the Senate” (as opposed to President Pro Temp)… So… you could say that the order in terms of honor is Senate… then House… then back to Senate. Blueboar (talk) 22:33, 6 August 2022 (UTC)
• Here's a head scratcher for you IP. The House speaker or the Senate president pro tempore, have to resign (both their offices & their seats) & cabinet members 'also' have to resign, before assuming the presidential powers & duties. But, once they resign? wouldn't that remove them from the line of succession. FWIW, this 'quirky' reading of the 1947 Succession Act, hasn't been tested yet. GoodDay (talk) 16:19, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

  If both the president and the vice president died, the speaker of the house would instantly become president. Their subsequent resignation as speaker would have no impact on the line of succession. Cullen328 (talk) 17:01, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

  As for the issue of a change in the political party running the executive branch, the US Constitution never mentions political parties. Cullen328 (talk) 17:05, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

  Speaker of the House has been a vastly more powerful office throughout US history than Senate President Pro Tem. The most powerful person in the Senate is the Senate Majority Leader. Cullen328 (talk) 17:11, 7 August 2022 (UTC)