Wikipedia:Stub types for deletion/Log/2007/June/3
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June 3
[edit]- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the stub template and/or category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the template's or category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the debate was rescope to upmerged Ancient-Thrace-stub
Unproposed, and for the most part we don't split by no-longer-extant countries. Sure, there are a couple of exceptions - big ones with loads of articles. Note that the combined total size of the categories Category:Thracian people and Category:Thracian kings is 20 articles. There's no way that the threshold level of 60 stubs could be reached from that. Delete. Grutness...wha? 00:46, 3 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Might be worth keeping as an upmerged variant of an {{Ancient-Thrace-stub}} Between Thracian archaeological sites and mythology, there's probably enough for at least an upmerged {{Ancient-Thrace-stub}} Caerwine Caer’s whines 02:32, 3 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Didn't we delete a previous generic template about Ancient Thrace because it could never live up to the size criterion? This one is more narrow in scope, and I doubt the material has grown significantly. Delete. Valentinian T / C 17:34, 3 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- I would suggest creating or upmerging to something like a generic Ancient Thrace stub category. Merge to {{Ancient-Thrace-stub}}. Neranei 01:10, 4 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- The first book at hand I consulted, Thracians by Alexander Fol and Valeria Fol, ISBN: 978-9549717181 has fifty-odd persons mentioned, not just kings and other nobles but also priests, poets, singers, artists etc. that could possibly need such a bio stub. In any case, if this template were deleted I trust there would be no objection to inserting in the relevant present articles a footnote to the same effect with no template used? I have no problems with having the template renamed 'Ancient-Thrace-stub'. Apcbg 08:28, 4 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Please see my proposal for an Ancient-Euro-bio-stub (or Classical-bio-stub) at WP:WSS/P Grutness...wha? 01:41, 5 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the template's or category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the stub template and/or category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the template's or category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the debate was upmerge
Unproposed, and with a badly-capitalised category. Maybe this could be useful, but if so, it should follow the permcat and be Category:Reggae song stubs, with a template that matches that. Either delete or rename. Grutness...wha? 00:46, 3 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Potentially useful, but I'm guessing it's not going to be first on the list of genres to be viable. Accordingly, I'd suggest upmerging. Alai 01:16, 3 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the template's or category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.
{{EU-politician-stub}}
[edit]- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the stub template and/or category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the template's or category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the debate was delete
Unproposed, odd redlink category of Category:European Union politician. EU politicians are almost always specifically linked to one member nation, and as such are covered by specific country-politician-stub types and - in many cases - MEP-stub. This is therefore unnecessary. Delete. Grutness...wha? 00:46, 3 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Not all politicians in the EU system have a notable past in national politics. Some and are foremost identified as a "European" politician. I made this template with people in the EU commission, parliament etc. in mind, and not necessarily all MEPs sent from a national party. The rise of new "truly pan-european" parties aiming for the parliamentary election in 2009, like "Newropeans" and "Europe United" (Yes, the Newropeans article is currently small and seemingly questionable, but the party is all about getting parliament seats in the '09 election in a pan-European, not national way.) has political personalities that should and probably would prefer themselves to be marked as "European", instead of their country of birth. The fact is that this stub template is perfect for some politicians. └ S. SOLBERG J. / talk ┐ 01:01, 3 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Seems largely unnecessary to me, since even if they're only active at the EU level, they'll still have a nationality. If kept, upmerge to Category:European politician stubs. Alai 01:23, 3 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Yes all EU politicians are born in a member state, but the fact that many pro-european politicians and citizens in general choose to ignore the national aspect and focus solely on the European, must shine through sometimes on wikipedia. Politics is one of the few areas with a real EU level, and this stub is about the profession of politican. I agree that a stub type called "EU actress" perhaps would be wrong, but when it comes to politics, the EU aspect must have its place - including a stub type of its own.└ S. SOLBERG J. / talk ┐ 01:35, 3 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Not just "are born in" (and not necessarily, either), but more importantly, "are citizens of". You seem to be suggesting that stub tags should reflect a (in this case, extreme minority) POV corresponding to that of the subject of the stubs it's applied to, which is utterly different from what we ordinarily do. Strongly oppose any separate stub category along these lines, as it wouldn't be populable, and it'd cut across all normal means of organising same. Alai 02:08, 3 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- The point i'm making is that thousands of politicians are all about the EU system in Brussels, and without any relevant national background. Citizens of EU member states are officially also EU citizens (separately). So to force through the argument that "everybody is born in some country", would be just to correspond with some unofficial standards on nationality in the wikipedia stub project. As you said, Category:European politician stubs should of course be used. Tens of thousands of politicians from all over Europe are working in Brussels and Strasbourg with a common European purpose. The EU system is a major genre within European politics, so to split up these (with wikipedia articles and a non-segnificant background in national politics)into their countries of birth (everybody has a common EU citizenship by law) because of an unwritten wikiproject law, would be wrong.└ S. SOLBERG J. / talk ┐ 02:32, 3 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
(resetting indent). We already have {{Euro-politician-stub}}, {{MEP-stub}} and {{EU-org-bio-stub}} so we don't need any more templates. Despite the dreams of some Eurocrats, the EU is not a nation, and we sort politicians by country or continent. The EU is neither. In any case, the politicial stubs should always include a relevant national template. Delete. Valentinian T / C 17:32, 3 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Well this stub is really a mix of {{MEP-stub}} and {{EU-org-bio-stub}}. (The first is about elected politicians in the EU, while the other one represents the non-elected ones) I think EU-politician-stub works better and that those two should be merged into this one. You obviously don't like EU level stub types, so I'd guess that one would be better than two. This stub would also include people from for example Newropeans (Not MEPs (yet) nor government employee), whose inclusion in the "EU universe" is obvious but nationality is irrelevant.└ S. SOLBERG J. / talk ┐ 18:36, 3 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- My interest here is that I've sorted thousands of -politician articles, and I would very much like to avoid seeing that work wasted. We should avoid grouping people by their interest or similar. Otherwise we'd end up with stubbing the article about a (wannabe) politician with a -culture, -sports and X other categories simply because the person campaigns on those issues. The MEPs have been sorted very efficiently so I strongly oppose changing that situation. We shouldn't have -politician templates relating to the CIS, GATT, OECD or EFTA either. It has taken me and others a very large number of manhours to sort the political material efficiently, and a template like this will be set precedent for establishing a number of other templates cutting right through this system. A second criterion is size: we don't have 60 relevant articles that don't fall into any of the other categories - as required for new lines of stub templates - so even if we didn't have the other problem, we still have this one. There are just too many problems with this template and too little benefit. Valentinian T / C 20:59, 3 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- If anybody is interested, a similar proposal was rejected two months ago.[1] Valentinian T / C 23:10, 3 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- My interest here is that I've sorted thousands of -politician articles, and I would very much like to avoid seeing that work wasted. We should avoid grouping people by their interest or similar. Otherwise we'd end up with stubbing the article about a (wannabe) politician with a -culture, -sports and X other categories simply because the person campaigns on those issues. The MEPs have been sorted very efficiently so I strongly oppose changing that situation. We shouldn't have -politician templates relating to the CIS, GATT, OECD or EFTA either. It has taken me and others a very large number of manhours to sort the political material efficiently, and a template like this will be set precedent for establishing a number of other templates cutting right through this system. A second criterion is size: we don't have 60 relevant articles that don't fall into any of the other categories - as required for new lines of stub templates - so even if we didn't have the other problem, we still have this one. There are just too many problems with this template and too little benefit. Valentinian T / C 20:59, 3 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete. EU isn't a country. There is no reason to unite all EU politicians together as each sub-stub cat has a healthy stub population. Also I see some POV issues here. I think country-politician-stub covers the bio stubs more than adequately. -- Cat chi? 17:04, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
- No point deleting just because it isn't a country, it is a massive political entity whatever you call it. We do though have the MEP and bio stubs, make sense to merge them, we're reducing the amount of stubs. - J Logan t/c: 06:41, 24 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the template's or category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.