Wikipedia talk:Moving a page

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Proposed merge[edit]


I am proposing that a merge be performed to this page from Help:How to move a page, as it appears to cover exactly the same matter.

Please provide your input. Thank you. (talk) 21:43, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Generally, Wikipedia pages are meant to explain Wikipedia policies and content, while Help policies are meant to explain how to actually do stuff (what keys to type, what buttons to push). So, Wikipedia moving should explain when and why to move while Help should explain how to do it. I don't think a merge is the answer here, but some editing to make the differing purposes clear maybe is. D O N D E groovily Talk to me 05:23, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Moving a page describes itself as a 'how-to' guide, and its third section is "How to move a page", so yeah, there is a great deal of overlap. I understand that WP: and Help: pages are meant to serve different functions, but I support the merge in the absence of a major edit to sort out the overlap. ~ Kimelea (talk) 21:51, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

Then why not just re-purpose this page to be less of a how-to guide? Aervanath (talk) 10:31, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
Agreeing with Aervanath, seriously, remove the overlap and link towards the help page. ---Michaelzeng7 (talk - contribs) 18:22, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
From a technical standpoint, this article has 26,291 bytes, the help page only 3,030 bytes, so it might be easier to cut and paste that into this and rename this article to that and create a new article here with what is left when you strip it down. In any case it is a pretty big job to separate the two functions. Apteva (talk) 05:16, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
To me it seems that the roles of the two pages are reversed, but a merge is not the answer. MGray98 (talk) 00:08, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
I agree with Apteva in that the help page has just over 3,000 bytes compared to this articles 26,000 it wpuld be a lot easier to just cut and paste the help page into the help section of this article and thus eliminate the need for the help page! Ecallow (talk) 12:26, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
I'd like to see this page lose its how-to portions. As Dondegroovily says, when there's a help page on the same topic as a WP:space page, the WP:space page should explain community consensus on what should be done, while the Help:space page should merely be about the technical side of actually doing it. Nyttend (talk) 20:02, 17 May 2013 (UTC)
  • I've boldly implemented a creative solution, which I believe answers the concerns raised in the above discussion. I'm hoping that there is consensus for it, but feel free to post issues which you might have with my solution here. Thanks, Wbm1058 (talk) 16:21, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

AFC submissions[edit]

There is a discussion ongoing at Wikipedia:WikiProject_Articles_for_creation/Helper_script/Development_page#Creating_over_a_redirect if the WP:AFC helper tool should automatically tag redirects as they cannot be moved. Please comment and give us additional input. mabdul 21:51, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Disabling 'Enter = Save' on Special:MovePage[edit]

I recently decided to take on the task of moving Technology in the Mughal Empire to Science and technology in the Mughal Empire. Unfortunately, I encountered a lot more trouble than I needed to because pressing enter equates to saving the move (see here). First I would delete the capital "T" and then prepare to enter "Science and" (while reinstating the capital "T" with a lower-case one). However, when I tried to press Shift to capitalize the new title, I would accidentally press Enter, thus moving the page to a truncated title. I think the only real way to move a page should be to press the "Move page" button. FallingGravity (talk) 17:02, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

Unfortunately most Wikipedia editors can't do anything about this problem. The correct place for this complaint is Bugzilla:. Graham87 13:59, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Move button not appearing[edit]

Anyone else notice some pages not showing a move button, you know next to the watchlist button? It seems to be random for me; not showing up at Dragon Ball or Maximum the Hormone, but it does show at Ranma ½ and X Japan. None are move protected and I'm def not a new user, I've logged out and back in and nothing, so I'm kind of at a loss. Xfansd (talk) 00:29, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

Note that edit protection may be applied independently of move protection, and each may be set to different protection levels.
Also note that the protection templates do not have any protective effect, and should only be used on pages after they have been protected by an administrator. Not all protected pages have protection templates documenting their protection.
Dragon Ball and Maximum the Hormone are both move protected.
To see the protection applied to a page, click "View logs for this page" on the Revision history of the page:
  • 20:33, 9 February 2012 Reaper Eternal (talk | contribs) protected Dragon Ball‎ [edit=autoconfirmed] (indefinite) [move=sysop] (indefinite) (Persistent vandalism)
  • 13:15, 8 April 2010 NawlinWiki (talk | contribs) protected Maximum the Hormone‎ [edit=autoconfirmed] (expires 13:15, 22 April 2010 (UTC)) [move=sysop] (indefinite) (Excessive vandalism)
autoconfirmed can edit, but only sysop (administrator) can move
Wbm1058 (talk) 01:28, 8 July 2013 (UTC)
Oh thanks for taking the time to explain that to me. I should of read up on page protection instead of just assuming all pages that are move protected show it with protection templates. Although I do think they should have to show it. Xfansd (talk) 01:50, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

Move over redirect with single line of history[edit]

I'm trying to move Thomas Crowley Weston to Tom Weston over a redirect with a single line of history, but it won't let me. As far as I know, this should work without trouble. Can somebody please explain what's going wrong? Schwede66 19:12, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

Just letting you know that it's been resolved. Schwede66 19:57, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
@Schwede66: It's not as simple as having a single line of history. That single line of history must be the creation of a redirect from a page move; and the page that it was moved to must also be the page that you're trying to move back. So, if Tom Weston had been moved to Thomas Crowley Weston, you would be able to move Thomas Crowley Weston back to Tom Weston. However, the redirect that you wanted to overwrite consisted of
#REDIRECT [[Tom Weston (disambiguation)]]
{{R from move}}
so at some point, Tom Weston was moved to Tom Weston (disambiguation) - which is why Thomas Crowley Weston couldn't be moved over the top (except by an admin). --Redrose64 (talk) 21:45, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
@Redrose64: The original redirecting-page does not have to be created as a result of a page-move. If I create User:Davidwr/Testing123 as a redirect to Wikipedia talk:Moving a page "by hand," I could still move Wikipedia talk:Moving a page to User:Davidwr/Testing123 davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 19:24, 11 April 2014 (UTC)

Deleting redirect after rename[edit]

Hi, all. Is there any rule, when to leave the redirect after the move, or when to set it for deletion? Do the redirects from rename have any harm? Thanks. --Okino (talk) 19:45, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

It mainly depends upon how long the page was at the previous name. If it's been at the old name for some time - weeks or more - there may be established incoming links which will be broken by deleting the redir. But if it's just a few hours, and especially if an error was made in moving a page, resulting in the page being moved again, it's probably OK to del the redir. Remember that redirects are cheap, and the rules given at WP:CSD#Redirects should be considered; also those at WP:RFD. --Redrose64 (talk) 19:59, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

Incorrect information in information section[edit]

The information section that displays on the Special:Move page seems to have incorrect information. It says that talk pages will not be moved if the page is being moved to a different namespace. I just copied a page along with its talk page from my userspace draft to the mainspace just fine. Should this be changed? -24Talk 21:31, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

You are referring to the text in the interface page MediaWiki:Movepagetalktext. Request changes to this by placing the {{editrequest}} template on MediaWiki talk:Movepagetalktext, where I see someone else made a similar point, several years ago. Wbm1058 (talk) 22:22, 29 May 2014 (UTC)
Thanks. I have submitted a request. Cheers, -24Talk 01:59, 30 May 2014 (UTC)
I've gone ahead and actioned it. Graham87 06:10, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

Category moves[edit]

Categories can now be moved by any autoconfirmed user. Presumably this page should be updated as such. RGloucester 03:01, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

@RGloucester: Working I'll be happy to help. Can you point me at any documentation or changelogs that can help show this change in the MediaWiki software. I want to see if more documentation (like the MediaWiki interfaces) need to be changed as well. Thanks, -24Talk 13:44, 2 June 2014 (UTC)
There isn't any documentation that I'm aware of. All I know is that there was a large discussion at WP:AN about it. RGloucester 20:08, 2 June 2014 (UTC)
Besides AN, there have been discussions (of varying length and participation) at WP:VPT, WT:CAT, WT:CATP and elsewhere. One thing that certainly needs to be explained/described is that simply moving the category page will not be enough - every page that is a member of that category will also need to be amended because unless that is done, they will still be members of the old category. --Redrose64 (talk) 23:10, 2 June 2014 (UTC)
@RGloucester, Redrose64: So what exactly happens when a category is moved? I'm guessing that only its description is moved and then an empty category is left but is a redirect made from the old category to the new one and do the pages get updated with the new category because of the redirect? Kind of hard to explain. I'll be doing some research and testing in the meantime. -24Talk 04:08, 3 June 2014 (UTC)
A soft redirect is created (unless you're an admin and deselect "Leave a redirect behind"), which uses this message, see for example Category:Actors from Punjab. This page continues to list the pages categorised in the old category: the cat box at the bottom of the member pages is not updated. Clicking the cat link on one of the member pages takes you to the old cat page, where the page that you clicked from will still be listed; if you follow the link in the purple box to the new cat page, you may be puzzled to find that the page that you first clicked from is not listed. A manual cleanup is necessary: for example, some cat moves were recently performed by Graeme Bartlett (talk · contribs), see these twelve contribs, of which the first two were actual moves of two different categories, and nine of the other ten (that of 08:22, 3 June 2014 to Category:Geological tools excepted) were post-move cleanup. --Redrose64 (talk) 09:16, 3 June 2014 (UTC)
For these two moves I could have just as easily deleted and recreated the categories, but since I saw there was a move tab on the categories I though I would try it out. I still have one more category to change after the discussion. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 10:15, 3 June 2014 (UTC)
@Graeme Bartlett: I was using you as an example of the Right Thing - using the move tab and cleaning up afterward. --Redrose64 (talk) 10:27, 3 June 2014 (UTC)
Thanks Redrose64. Examples of other recent redirected categories are Category:Novels by Joaquim Maria Machado de Assis Category:Actors from Punjab, Category:City treasurers in the United States, Category:City attorneys, Category:Burials in Perth and Category:Pasiphaë group. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 10:29, 3 June 2014 (UTC)
So when using the move tab in a category is used the software takes these steps:
  1. Moves the old category's description to the new category
  2. Creates a soft redirect at the old category
At this point in time there is a soft redirect on the old category with the pages still in that old category (which makes the statement on the template false), the user then should make the category empty by changing all the categories to the new one. The new one then has the old category's description and the new pages. To summarize: the move tab only moves the description and places a redirect notice. Sorry to bother you all with this, it's necessary to get everything right before documentation is create. Thanks, -24Talk 14:49, 3 June 2014 (UTC)
Generally speaking, that's correct. It gets more complicated when moving a cat that is produced by a template, for example, one of the many stub templates.
Consider Category:Mountain Lakes geography stubs - this is currently under discussion at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2014 June 2#Category:Mountain Lakes geography stubs. If you are the closing admin, and close it as "move to Category:Mountain Lakes, West Virginia geography stubs" (as suggested by the nom), you would use the "Move" tab on the cat page, and then you would look at the members of what has become the "old" category: there are about 250 articles, seven templates, plus a subcategory (Category:Upshur County, West Virginia geography stubs). Fixing the subcat is easy: you just edit it and change [[Category:Mountain Lakes geography stubs]] to [[Category:Mountain Lakes, West Virginia geography stubs]]. Then you might want to move the articles that are still in Category:Mountain Lakes geography stubs - but that cat doesn't appear in the wikitext for the pages, because it's built into each of the seven templates. You would edit those, changing |category=Mountain Lakes geography stubs to |category=Mountain Lakes, West Virginia geography stubs in each case, and in theory that would be all that is required. The template edits would put all their transcluding pages into the job queue, and within a few hours, all the categories would be sorted out.
Unfortunately, there was a change to the job queue software about a year ago, and although the transcluding pages will correctly show the "new" category at the bottom, they will not be listed on the "new" cat page but on the "old". A WP:NULLEDIT to each and every article in the cat will fix it, but that is not ideal. It might be necessary to rope in Joe's Null Bot (talk · contribs). --Redrose64 (talk) 15:25, 3 June 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for clearing that up. I think we can start writing documentation starting with the categories section on this page and then going to some other Wikipedia pages (any ideas?) I'm going to go check the MediaWiki wiki and see if there is any other concerns or 'gotchas' that need to be addressed and any outdated documentation that needs to be corrected because the documentation should start as 'upstream' as possible. Thanks for your work Red. -24Talk 17:19, 3 June 2014 (UTC)
I have updated the page with the new info. The category lead is updated and I moved the section about categories and updated it. Has any information been left out or is this page updated (and can I remove the tag at the top)? -24Talk 18:58, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── @Makyen: I like your changes that you made with the lead section. To answer your question, does this belong in the lead, I think it doesn't. It was in the lead before I made my edits so I just updated the content but I did also ask the same question. To be honest, the lead is merely just a repeat of what is said in the individual sections. I think that it should be taken out. Any other thoughts? -24Talk 19:48, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. I had assumed that you left it in the lead because it was already there. The question becomes how much detail should be dealt with in the lead. The lead currently gives some details for normal page-moves, moving files, and moving categories. It is not clear to me how much detail we actually want in the lead for each, or even if it should break the different types out beyond a sentence. Usually, the lead is a brief summary of article content. As it currently stands, it provides more detail than is minimally needed in the lead for each type, but most of the information is useful.
I have expanded the WP:MOVE#How to move a category section a bit. As a result, I have trimmed the category move information in the lead. All portions in the lead could still be trimmed further. — Makyen (talk) 21:31, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

Newly enabled special page to automate history merges[edit]

Special:MergeHistory, a special page that can automate history merges, has recently been enabled on the English Wikipedia. It's currently being discussed on the admin's noticeboard. Graham87 02:48, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

Is it still necessary to re-categorize all pages manually?[edit]

See the discussion here: Wikipedia:Bot requests#Automated recategorization. Jarble (talk) 19:54, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

Breaking incoming links[edit]

In a recent RM discussion, Gerda Arendt argued that moving the page would cause problems for external websites that link to it. With no hard redirect in place (the proposal is to have a disambiguation page there instead), this could be perceived as an error. My view is that this is just WP:LINKROT but the other way round from normal, and is simply part of the usual dynamics of the ever-changing Internet. I can see Gerda's point, but I don't think that we can really take this into account or else nothing would ever get moved. I don't think it should be our responsibility to manage non-Wikimedia websites. However, I can't find any Wikipedia policy or similar that even mentions this situation. Should something be written? What should our policy be? Bazonka (talk) 08:24, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

I am not against page moves at all, I move a lot and even initiated some requests. I try to be very careful when there will not be a redirect, and don't see any advantage for the readers by going through the effort of renaming and fixing, to end up disambiguating two (!) people - which could be done in a hatnote. All this effort (move discussion, now coming here): for whom? I mean people, not some rules such as (debatable and debated) Primary topic. "Primary" will depend on what time and who's looking. One user told me not to have heard the name of the composer before. Wikipedia is there to change that ;) - I made three more comments in the matter than I usually do (two that is). Stop. Let me edit articles. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:36, 11 December 2014 (UTC)
A dab page is a redirect though, albeit a soft one. Anyway, this is not the place to discuss the specifics of the Humperdinck case. I do partly sympathise with your general point but I don't think it's a big problem. What I want to discuss here is whether we should mention it in any Wikipedia policies. Bazonka (talk) 08:56, 11 December 2014 (UTC)
I've been bold and added a new section to Wikipedia:Link rot#Link rot on non-Wikimedia sites. I think any further discussion should take place on the corresponding talk page, not here. Bazonka (talk) 21:50, 16 December 2014 (UTC)
Thank you, like it. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:56, 16 December 2014 (UTC)


I confess that before having been called here I didn't look at the page. Now I did and have a few questions to the Technical restrictions:

  • I don't understand what "which may be used as workarounds" is supposed to mean, perhaps "which show the title differently from the stored title"?
  • Why is there so much bolding?
  • Why is an example pictured for {{DISPLAYTITLE}} which would be the same for {{italic title}}, while the other could be used to achieve Ave Maria, WAB 6.

Learning, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:41, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

Automatic movement of pages[edit]

I want to move ro:Cladova (dezambiguizare) over ro:Cladova for example. Is it possible to generate a single link and to make the move just by clicking that link? Something like for example

Is it possible to automatically make such moves using AWB or some other tool? —  Ark25  (talk) 12:30, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

Nope, it is not possible to move a page using just a URL. It is however possible using the API, but you'd have to write your own program to do that. I'm not aware of a tool for speeding up page moves. Graham87 15:04, 19 December 2014 (UTC)