Talk:Colonel Tomb

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This article was nominated for deletion on 24 June 2009. The result of the discussion was no consensus.

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History Channel documentary[edit]

The History Channel recently featured an episode of "Dogfight" featuring Duke Cunningham explaining in detail how he shot this guy down. Ordinarily, I would suggest this needs more research (myth vs. reality), but the Duke-Stir seems to have become a less than credible source. Hiberniantears 16:59, 7 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Based on what I saw, the narrator on the program was Cunningham's RIO, Willy Driscoll. "Duke" did not appear in the segment I saw, though he certainly told the Col. Tomb story many times previously. (A friend of mine is a retired USAF master sergeant. He always said, "I'm the only Tomb I know, and I'm Irish!")

added some links[edit]

Greetings, I added an external link article on North Vietnamese Ace pilots that also include info on “Colonel Toon”. I also added him to “Mysterious People” and “Nonexistent people” category. Even though, he’s just a fabrication to describe any good North Vietnamese pilot by US pilots, he was however for a time thought to be a real mysterious pilot. --James 20:24, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Maybe he's one or more of the aces from the Nguyen family?[edit]

Eight of the sixteen North Vietnamese flying aces of the Vietnam War had the family name Nguyen. One or more of these could have been the mythical Colonel Toon. Respectfully, SamBlob 20:02, 31 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Whose propaganda?[edit]

There is an unsourced comment that "Col. Toon" or "Tomb" was a North Vietnamese propaganda fabrication. None of the sources I have read - and I have both the quoted sources - suggest that the North Vietnamese had anything to do with it. In fact, they suggest that the myth started among the USN and USAF pilots and perhaps a few of their intelligence officers. Flanker235 (talk) 03:08, 4 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved. (non-admin closure) Steel1943 (talk) 08:03, 4 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Nguyen Toon → Colonel Tomb – The US Navy-named "Colonel Tomb," a mythical North Vietnamese fighter ace, was a combination of a misidentified call-sign and several now identified Vietnamese pilots flying each others' planes. "Toon" suggests either cartoon or Burmese name, not an appropriate identifier, and now not used in more modern sources. In ictu oculi (talk) 02:34, 27 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Shot in Parachute Claims[edit]

The article states "although the MiG-17 pilot Do Hang was able to eject, he was then killed by 20mm gunfire from the American fighter aircraft making strafing passes at him while descending underneath his parachute". That's quite a feat, given that the F-4Js flown by the Navy did not have an internal gun and carried a centerline drop tank on the hardpoint where the cannon pod would have to be mounted. Possibly the A-7s, which DID have an internal gun, could be responsible, but they're attack aircraft, i.e. bombers, and not fighters. The current phrasing suggests Cunningham and his RIO did it. Cunningham's probably guilty of enough crimes without this one being laid at his door. 2601:246:C100:8A60:61AD:610C:9E3:9EB4 (talk) 14:16, 11 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The claim is cited to "Toperczer, 2015, pp. 174-175" - apparently Toperczer, Istvan, MiG Aces of the Vietnam War, Schiffer Publishing, Ltd., 2015; ISBN 978-0-7643-4895-2. The 2001 Osprey book by Toperczer (Toperczer, István, "MiG-17 and MiG-19 Units of the Vietnam War", Osprey Publishing Limited, Botley, Oxford, UK, 2001, ISBN 1-84176-162-1.) and his 2016 book (Toperczer, Istvan (2016). MiG 17/19 Aces of the Vietnam War. Oxford: Osprey Publishing. ISBN 978-1-4728-1256-8.) both mention that Vietnamese report claim that Hang was shot by the F-4s that had just shot down his aircraft, but notes that the US Navy "strongly refutes" these caims (and the 2016 book points out that the F-4 had no guns). It seems that the fact that the US Navy denied it (and the impossibility of the claim due to the lack of guns on the F-4) has been omitted.Nigel Ish (talk) 16:15, 11 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]