Talk:Journey to the Center of the Earth
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- 1 Comments
- 2 Versions??
- 3 Lindenbrock vs. Hardwigg
- 4 Spelling challenged
- 5 1980 Watermill Classic - Complete and Unabridged
- 6 Chapter Summary
- 7 "Classic science-fiction novel..."
- 8 Requested move (2007)
- 9 Fair use rationale for Image:JulesVerne AJounreyToTheCentreOfTheEarth.jpg
- 10 compared to his previous works
- 11 Confusing wording
- 12 "passing the center"
- 13 Spoiler
- 14 WikiProject class rating
- 15 Who the hell is Jeff Hobbs?
- 16 Real places mentioned in the book
- 17 Move this article (2009)
- 18 giant 30 ft ichthyosaur
- 19 Latin spelling
- 20 Translations
- 21 Title problem (2010)
- 22 Adaptions - Other
- 23 Move? (February 2013)
- 24 More American English v British English spelling war?
- 25 Requested move (indefinite article) - May 2013
A group of explorers and scientists? I dunno. It makes it sound like a crowd, and I only remember it being three people who made the descent. --- firstname.lastname@example.org
Besides the two on Project Gutenberg, are there any ways to track down the versions of the novel,, to help explain the renaming issues? The original version I read had the English names and was fairly heavily abridged (something along the lines of the one "Journey to the Centre of the Earth" on Project Gutenberg). The version I reread had the German characters and the fuller text, but with the "translator asides" (see "Interior of the Earth" version on PG). Are there many more, or are the other versions just edits of these? Wyrmis 18:02, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
Lindenbrock vs. Hardwigg
There seems to be some confusion around the Web as to just what the names of the two main characters are. I personally recall them being named Professor Hardwigg and Harry, and am somewhat astonished to learn that now suddenly they're being called Professor Lindenbrock and Axel? I unfortunately lack a copy of the novel, so I cannot check to see which is correct. Could someone who owns the book check to see just what their names are? - Kooshmeister
- I was just about to mention this problem myself. I don't own a copy, but I've read the book several times. Apparently, Otto Lindenbrock and Axel Lidenbrock were the original names that Verne used, and doubtlessly German names. I'm not sure exactly why in all the versions I've read that their names are Hardwigg and Harry; it may be that those are the American equivalents. Another problem I've noted is that instead of Snaefell, the mountain is called Sneffels. Could someone who knows please explain? Scorpionman 00:57, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
- "Journey to the Centre of the Earth itself has been translated more than ten times, but many are very poor indeed. The best-known version is still the atrocious 1872 one, which rebaptizes Axel as Harry and Lidenbrock as Hardwigg, makes them both Scottish, and finishes each paragraph with at least one totally invented sentence."
(From the William Butcher translation.) Sjjb 13:08, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
Isn't it ichthyosaur & mammoth? Trekphiler 17:43, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
1980 Watermill Classic - Complete and Unabridged
In a copy, which I stole from school, its actually is Von Hardwigg, Harry, Sneffels, AND Grethen (who is listed in the article as Graüben). But their still german ,though. I was just completely confused afterwards by that after reading this article. --Anonymous Jules Fan 8:16, 10 March 2006
- The names he gave in the original French are German, and were changed slightly for the English translation. -- Chr.K. 00:24, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
Where can I find a website that has a complete chapter summary? I tried Cliff's Notes, but they don't have one. --126.96.36.199 04:45, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
"Classic science-fiction novel..."
...is the definition given in the article on Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea, but not for Journey. I am going to give them equal term, as both are world famous, and any science fiction he wrote is classic, to begin with. -- Chr.K. 00:26, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
Requested move (2007)
It was requested that this article be renamed but there was no consensus for it to be moved. --~~
Fair use rationale for Image:JulesVerne AJounreyToTheCentreOfTheEarth.jpg
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compared to his previous works
There is no support for this sentence. Since Verne only had one published work before Journey to the Center of the Earth I'd say there's not much support for him taking a "radically different approach to storytelling..." Recommend deleting this sentence.
"Compared to his previous works, Verne takes a radically different approach to storytelling by making the main character and narrator a 19-year-old boy who relates the events as his own adventures."
- I agree. Do it. - Tenmiles 05:10, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
The last line of the second paragraph is "It is unknown whether this was done under the influence of his publisher Hetzel who wanted to distribute Verne's work as aimed towards shrinking teens." As I doubt that the book was aimed at teens who were getting smaller, I presume that this means it was aimed at a shrinking teen market. However, I would prefer not to change it until I can say whether or not it was a shrinking teen market for Verne's books, or for books in general, as otherwise it is unnecessarily vague. Does anybody know? Filksinger 15:42, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
"passing the center"
I am very puzzled by the last line of the plot summary, that "that they had indeed passed the very center of the Earth." The geometric center of the earth is roughly 4000 miles straight down, and the characters come nowhere near it. What other center could the article be talking about? From what I remember of the novel, the reversed-compass discussion just clears up the mystery about why the characters got lost, and mentioned nothing about "passing the center", whatever that means. CharlesTheBold 04:51, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
I just read the Malleson translation and there's nothing indicating that they pass the center. Astompa 09:00, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
This is not part of the novel but is part of the 1959 movie. Naaman Brown (talk) 19:31, 4 August 2009 (UTC) Added: since the deepest point reached in the novel was the cavernous ocean about
200 miles 87 miles beneath the surface, perhaps the entry should be renamed by the more accurate alternate title A Journey to the Interior of the Earth and we can avoid the teapot tempest over Center vs Centre. Naaman Brown (talk) 17:15, 18 August 2009 (UTC) 87 miles in William Butcher's Oxford translation 1992. Naaman Brown (talk) 21:46, 4 September 2009 (UTC) strike-through "A ". The title is not Une Voyage..." but "Voyage..." so title is "Journey..." which raises the question is "Voyage used as a noun or as a verb (imperative command from Arne Saknussemm "to journey")?Naaman Brown (talk) 14:55, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
WikiProject class rating
This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 04:29, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
Who the hell is Jeff Hobbs?
I see that Jeff Hobbs is mentioned as the illustrator of the book. The only problem is that I have never heard of him or is able to find any info about him in the net. Is this info correct? 188.8.131.52 (talk) 17:35, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
- Was that Vandalism? Édouard Riou is credited as illustrator now. --15lsoucy (talk) 00:04, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
Real places mentioned in the book
Move this article (2009)
The article has been 'A Journey to the Center of the Earth since 22:38, 13 June 2004. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that titles long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Naaman Brown (talk) 22:34, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
giant 30 ft ichthyosaur
Most species of ichthyosaur were the size of modern tuna or porpoise. However, a complete fossil 17m/55ft long was discovered in Nevada, and in 1992 a 23m/75ft specimen was discovered in Canada. So compared to the general run, 30 ft ichthyosaur would be giant, but there were larger specimens in real life. In the William Butcher 1992 and Frederick Amadeus Malleson 1877 translations of "Journey..." it is described as "not less than a hundred feet long" so that would be closer to 30 meters than 30 feet. Naaman Brown (talk) 21:36, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
The Latin spelling is different in the French Hetzel edition:
- In Sneffels Yoculis craterem kem delibat
- umbra Scartaris Julii intra calendas descende,
- audas viator, et terrestre centrum attinges.
- Kod feci. Arne Saknussem.
While the article reads:
- In Snefflls [sic] Iokulis kraterem kem delibat umbra Skartaris Iulii intra kalendas deskende, audas uiator, te [sic] terrestre kentrum attinges. Kod feki. Arne Saknussemm.
The version in Verne's original should be preferred for reprints. I think the Latin in different versions may suffer from either typographical errors introduced in the retyping or attempts to correct the Latin of "Arne Saknussem" by grammer police. Latin may have been the primary language of medieval scholars, but it does not guarantee that "Arne Saknussem" would have written perfect classic Latin.
William Butcher 1992 Frederick Amadeus Malleson 1877 "Harwigg" paraphrase 1871 In Snefells Yoculis craterem In Sneffels Joculis craterem In Sneffels Yoculis craterem kem delibat umbra Scartaris quem delibat Umbra Scartaris kem delibat umbra Scartaris Julii intra calendas descende, Julii intra calendas descende, Julii intra calendas descende, audas viator, et terrestre Audax viator, et terrestre audas viator, et terrestre centrum attinges. Kod feci. centrum attinges. Quod feci, centrum attinges. Kod feci. Arne Saknussemm. Arne Saknussemm. Arne Saknussemm
What about the 1956 translation by Willis T. Bradley, published by A. A. Wynn/ Dell? Seems like that would be a more modern version than the others, and worthy of note. Mercurywoodrose (talk) 23:17, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
Title problem (2010)
Adaptions - Other
The Adaptions - Other section mixes in sundry works inspired by Verne (some adaptions, others references) plus things like Warlord which may have little direct connection. This is a mess ! -- Beardo (talk) 03:27, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
Move? (February 2013)
May I humbly suggest a move? While A Journey to the Center of the Earth was the original title of the first English translation, I've never met anyone who uses that indefinite article at the beginning. It isn't even justified by the original French title, which is simply Voyage au centre de la terre (no indefinite article, nor even any certainty that the title is a noun phrase rather than an imperative verb phrase).
Completeness or fidelity to the title page of the first English edition is, I believe, an irrelevant argument...for example, WP sees no need for an article called The Fortunes and Misfortunes of the Famous Moll Flanders, &c. Who was Born in Newgate, and during a Life of continu'd Variety for Threescore Years, besides her Childhood, was Twelve Year a Whore, five times a Wife (whereof once to her own Brother), Twelve Year a Thief, Eight Year a Transported Felon in Virginia, at last grew Rich, liv'd Honest, and died a Penitent. Written from her own Memorandums.
So, I'd suggest moving the page to Journey to the Center of the Earth. Note that this issue is unrelated to the prolonged center/centre argument above, and is, perhaps, a little more noticeable.Lemuellio (talk) 05:10, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
- I've seen it as A Journey to the Center of the Earth before. In fact, my Signet Classics copy of the book includes the article A (see this). Journey to the Center of the Earth is already a redirect to A Journey to the Center of the Earth, and I personally see no reason why this should change. Your argument that WP does not have extremely long article titles, in my opinion, seems irrelevant because the inclusion of A doesn't make this article title superfluously long. Therefore, I oppose this move. Greengreengreenred 05:36, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
- Very good points, both of them, and I respect your position; I should have been clearer before. What I meant was that, while "A Journey of the Center of the Earth" is sometimes used on book covers etc., context suggests that it's neither the most faithful nor the most common rendition of the title. Here are the two arguments to which I refer:
- Fidelity: The novel's original title is simply Voyage au centre de la terre. There is no indefinite or definite article, and no reason to be certain that "Voyage" is meant as a noun at all; it could easily be an imperative verb instead (e.g. "Go, ye heroes, and journey to the center of the earth!"), as others have pointed out before me. The title variant "A Journey" was invented for an early and very bad English adaptation, in which the addition of an indefinite article was only one of thousands of liberties taken to the text by the anonymous translator (see this academic article for more info).
- Commonness: To determine whether "A Journey" is the most common version, I did some Google Books and WorldCat searches, the results of which are shown below. They suggest that, far from being the most common title, the "A Journey" version is in a distinct minority.
Search text Google Books hits WorldCat hits "a journey to the center of the earth" 201,000 82 "journey to the center of the earth" 1,110,000 526 "a journey to the centre of the earth" 144,000 59 "journey to the centre of the earth" 494,000 316
- What's more, reviewing the results reveals that, without exception, every modern (post-1950) translation of the book shuns the "A Journey" variant in favor of the more faithful rendering, as this bibliography makes clear on pp.107-108.
- If just one argument or the other were in question, I wouldn't be so interested in the move--but to have both fidelity and commonness (not to mention modern translators' consensus) working against the Wikipedia title is most unfortunate, and suggests that a move is indeed in order. I certainly don't mean to cause an edit war, and already I fear I'm bordering on the pedantic by bringing the whole question up, but the arguments seem conclusive to me. Thanks!--Lemuellio (talk) 15:10, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
More American English v British English spelling war?
The article was started Rev 22:38 13 June 2004 as the only edit ever by IP User 184.108.40.206 under the title "A Journey to the Center of the Earth".
The first text was added Rev 22:58, 13 June 2004 by User RickK using American English spelling for "Center" in the text. RickK used "Journey to the Center of the Earth" as translation from the French "Voyage au centre de la Terre".
Why, how the aitch does an English language article on a French novel qualify as a battleground over American v. British English spelling, other than the claim that because the first (bad) English translation was entitled "A Journey to the Centre of the Earth" the article is British territory?
It is my understanding that in issues of American versus British spelling, the tests are (a) was the original authorship of the article in American or British English, and (b) was the subject of the article British? Since the article was started using American English and the subject of the article is French, the "-re" v "-er" and "-our" v "-or" warfare is silly. If a British author started an article on a British subject, it would be a slam dunk: British spelling consistent. But this constant back and forth is tiresome.--Naaman Brown (talk) 15:28, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
- So go with the sources: we cite the original translation and the OUP as "Centre". which should have more weight than a couple of audiobooks and a dead link to a comic book version. Alternatively, move the page to Voyage au centre de la Terre with redirects from both spellings, and an introduction showing both spellings in bold provided an academic source is found for "Center". Either spelling on its own is going to look odd to a proportion of our readers. . . dave souza, talk 16:22, 12 February 2013 (UTC)