Talk:Music of Australia/Archive 1

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pre-2003 talk

Don't take the above too seriously. The following bands or performers all deserve mention in there somewhere IMHO, perhaps more than some mentioned: The Sound Unlimited Posse (not perhaps all that notable in absolute terms, but the only Australian hip-hop group to have commercial success until MC Trey), Cold Chisel, Skyhooks, INXS, silverchair, Kylie Minogue, Paul Kelly, Powderfinger, Little River Band, Hunters And Collectors, Crowded House (though they're really more New Zealand's), John Farnham, Sherbet, Russell Morris, Midnight Oil, Men At Work, The Seekers, Slim Dusty, The Bee Gees, AC/DC, You Am I, even The Louisville Sluggers (well, maybe not yet, but give'em an album and some radio play :)).

Much more influential musical artists (influential, as in , pioneering in styles that many other musicians including much more famous ones might name-check) than either list above (excepting, say the Easybeats, Bee Gees and AC/DC) might include: The Birthday Party, Nick Cave, The Saints, The MC5, The Atlantics, The Scientists, The Beasts of Bourbon, The Triffids, The Go-Betweens, Dead Can Dance, and The Laughing Clowns. Most of these date from the late 70s and 80s.

I don't recognise all those names, but the ones that I do recognise certainly deserve deserve recognition. I do however think think you might be wearing the blinkers slightly. Just because you mightn't like Slim Dusty or John Farnham doesn't mean they don't a prominent place in the story of Australian popular music, any more than leaving out Celine Dion or Dolly Parton would be appropriate for a history of American popular music. --Robert Merkel
MC5 are from Detroit

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 172.212.59.132 (talk) 21:22, 23 January 2007 (UTC).

A band that surely shouldn't be forgotten is Yothu Yindi, because they are probably the best known mixed aboriginal-white band in Australia. -- G_from_B

Agreed. We really should make an attempt to write this article properly - and whilst we're at it also mention pre-1950's stuff (the Scottish-Irish bush ballads, for instance, and the traditional songs of the Aboriginal peoples), and mention stuff outside the pop tradition (Rolf Harris :), but more seriously has Australia made any significant contribution to the world of jazz (probably not), classical music (a few great opera singers, perhaps, a couple of decent opera companies, symphony orchestras etc, who perform some new Australian music every so often) etc. --Robert Merkel
See also : Australia

rewrites

I removed:

From the early 1990s Directions in Groove (Sydney) combined groove jazz and towards the end of the 1990s drum and bass elements, a track followed in the late 1990s and early 2000s by The Hive (renamed The Bagsmen in 2002 to avoid confusion with a Swedish-based band with a similar name).

Because I can't figure out what it means. Can someone clarify, such as by splitting into two or three separate sentences with subjects? Tuf-Kat

Yep, it was terribly written, I agree. This is what happens when you wikipedia too late at night! I was really just trying to get my thoughts down quickly before I got distracted. I'm glad somebody cares enough about this article to help rewrite it. I have now have rewritten it more clearly, I hope. Lexor 21:23 9 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Gondwanaland

Could someone add some words about Gondwanaland?

zig 20:01, 6 Feb 2004 (UTC)

article organisation

This article has become chock full of info, but it is atrociously organized. I will try to get around to it soon, but it needs some TLC ASAP. Tuf-Kat 05:35, May 2, 2004 (UTC)

hi, tuf-kat I have attempted to make a dent in the structure, hopefully it's better, it's great that dunk58 has contributed so much raw material, it just needs a few little wikifications... ;-) clarkk 10:44, 4 May 2004 (UTC)

possible copyright violation

i reverted the recent edits back to my last edit, because the edits by the anonymous ip user(s?) 211.29.*.* may be copyright violations from the cited link at:

some parts are clearly paraphrased, other parts are verbatim. either way, it's a violation of copyright because it's a derivative work (paraphrasing does not make it ok). it is ok to use the facts from the article, or even quote very brief extracts, but paraphrasing or minor modifications it does not prevent it from being an infringing use. (see wikipedia:copyrights for more info).

if the anonymous ip user(s) in question did actually write the material on the site, and is contributing it to wikipedia, then that's great! but then please indicate that you did so, and indicate that you are submitting the text under the GFDL, and indicate some way that we can verify this.

thanks clarkk 09:50, 3 May 2004 (UTC)

Actually, paraphrasing may well make it okay for factual information. - David Gerard 12:47, May 3, 2004 (UTC)
yes it would be if it was very short excerpts like such and such a band started in 1972, but the text in question was large slabs (many paragraphs) of narrative following the same trajectory, and most of it was actually verbatim with some minor paraphrasing, IANAL but i'm sure it would be considered copyright infringement. anyway, the point is now moot, given that user:dunks58 has clarified (below) that he is the author of the site in question and he is contributing it under the GFDL, so a big thank you to him!! clarkk 19:07, 3 May 2004 (UTC)

clarkk, david g. and others - my abject apologies -- I'm new to Wikipedia and it was late, yadda, yadda -- I forgot to log in when I edited this page. my username is dunks58 -- I'm Duncan Kimball (Sydney NSW) and also webmaster of the Milesago site. Consequently there *should* be no copyright violation involved in my edit since I am also the sole author of the webpage referred to above. Sorry for that oversight - hope this will clarify. My email is <email removed> if you need to contact me.

And I'd LOVE to turn more of those red names to blue, david, thanks! Cheers to all. Wikipedia rocks.

thanks User:dunks58 00:22 4 May 2003

duncan, thank you so much! it fills a much needed void. i wasn't looking forward to having to fill in that era myself, given i know next to nothing about stuff pre-late 1970s (except very hazily). are you willing to contribute the other articles about bands on your site too? clarkk 19:07, 3 May 2004 (UTC)
Duncan - if you're happy for the other stuff from your site to go up on Wikipedia, point us at the articles that are yours and we'll go for it! - David Gerard 19:31, May 3, 2004 (UTC)

new articles from Milesago; Ian McFarlane

David & clarkk - I'll beging firing articles at you shortly I'm about to take a redundancy from my current job and looking forward to an extended break and getting stuck into Wiki in a big way.

I'll have to be circumspect, though, since a number of articles rely on other secondary sources like Ian McFarlane's 'Encyclopedia Of Australian Rock & Pop'. I'm in touch with Ian and he is OK with me using his work for Milesago, but may be less sanguine about it being hauled up onto Wikipedia, so I'll have to run it by him on a case-by-case basis. Also there are a number of articles that are wholly or partly written by others, which I've been given permission to add to my site, so again would need to clear with each author before reproducing here.

Also, I think most will need drastic pruning (verbose? moi??) before being suitable for wikipedia. I'm perusing your nifty style notes, david, and will put them to good use. Pity we didn't 'virtually' meet earlier as I was in London for 3 weeks late last year. :(

Anyway I really appreciate the feedback and the warm welcome and look forward to a fruitful wikillaboration!

FYI I've added stuff to the following pages:

- triple J - Midnight Oil - Divinyls - Hunters & Collectors - Hoodoo Gurus

and have made first stabs at pages on:

- Lillian Roxon

and

- Lighthouse Keepers -- some of info on this page is cribbed from McFarlane but I know Greg Appel and the family personally and was a member of One Head Jet for several years, so I figure Ian won't mind.

That's all I can think of for the moment.

Cheers

Dunks

I see nothing wrong with cribbing from McFarlane, as long as it's one of multiple sources :-) The Scientists started as a crib of McFarlane, but with a pile of other sources mixed in. One source may be plagiarism, but multiple is definitely research.
Although I guess each relevant McFarlane article should be in the external links for each band's article. Whether it was used or not, really.
In other notes, I retrieved my old copies of Party Fears from Australia and am preparing to make the scans available, probably on a subpage of http://rocknerd.org/ . This'll be fun! - David Gerard 10:48, May 4, 2004 (UTC)

50k

This article is at 50k, so I'm going to reorganize, spin off some subjects into new articles, etc. Tuf-Kat 04:03, Sep 1, 2004 (UTC)

Aussie Goth

While not a center of goth music in any sense, two bands that might be considered adding are Ikon, and Big Electric Cat. Though they may not have pop success they, especially Ikon, are notable within the subculture. I of course would not be offended if they are not added. They certainly don't have the widespread influence or notoriety of Dead Can Dance. Just thought I'd throw it out there. Khirad 04:38, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

to do?

Some things I was thinking should go here, or do they deserve their own articles?

  • Development/history of music charts (I'm sure ARIA wasn't the first, plus other charts like AIR)
  • Development/history of music awards (ditto, plus there are many more awards that exist or have existed than [could ever be] listed in the template).

pfctdayelise 15:28, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

NPOV

"In terms of music that is actually good, bands like Architecture in Helsinki, Augie March, The Avalanches, Because of Ghosts, Expatriate and Snowman began to spring up to the delight of many." I live in Australia and I've never heard of any of those bands. I don't dispute that to many they are "good" but this is awfully subjective, and also implies that the previously mentioned bands/singers aren't "good."TMac 01:48, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Hi Tim
I guess it's sad that some of our best new bands are more loved overseas than in Australia itself, while the bands that are heavily promoted on Australian radio/TV like Jet often get pretty mediocre reviews outside of the country. I find it strange that you haven't at least heard of The Avalanches or Augie March though, they've had a lot of coverage here.
Anyway,
Architecture in Helsinki:
http://www.popmatters.com/music/reviews/a/architectureinhelsinki-incase.shtml
http://www.stylusmagazine.com/review.php?ID=2922
http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/record-reviews/a/architecture-in-helsinki/in-case-we-die.shtml
Augie March:
http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/record-reviews/a/augie-march/strange-bird.shtml
http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:fl5g8qczbtv4
Avalanches:
http://www.metacritic.com/music/artists/avalanches/sinceileftyou
Because of Ghosts:
http://www.halo-17.net/6187.html
Expatriate:
http://www.fasterlouder.com.au/reviews/music/3561/
Snowman:
http://www.xpressmag.com.au/archives/000913.php
Note that most of these reviews are from non-Australian sites.
Expatriate, Ghosts and Snowman are newer (only EP length releases out so far) but once they release full albums I would expect similar reviews.
I have removed it again. Please see WP:NPOV and WP:CITE. If those bands are worth mentioning here, then it's worth explaining their notability and importance using an encyclopedic tone. When they are incorporated into the article, it should be in the form of useful information, as opposed to a list of names surrounded by vague claims of goodness. Tuf-Kat 08:22, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
You're never heard of Architecture in Helsinki, Augie March or the Avalanches? :o (The others have just been tagged in after, AFAICT).
  • AiH were nominated for best Adult Contemporary ARIA 2005. (A very odd nomination category.) They have had some interest O/S.
  • Augie March... wow... have released three well-reviewed albums, the latest of which debuted in the top 10 (Moo, you bloody choir) and has been nominated for a J Award.
  • The Avalanches are actually more popular in the UK I believe, they're certainly one of our biggest dance-type acts internationally. Only released Since I Left You so far but man, it's a classic album.
But "music that is actually good" - while I rather agree, it's a bad line for an encyclopedia. :) pfctdayelise (translate?) 22:15, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Plagiarism?

The opening paragraph bears remarkable similarity to this page http://www.answers.com/topic/music-of-australia someone is at fault.

Please sign posts by adding four tildes after your post. To explain, many websites (maybe more than a dozen) actually copy/reprint Wikipedia articles word for word onto their own sites. I believe this may be the case with the site you've found. Badagnani 07:20, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Not very encylopedic

I came to this article as a starting point to find some things out about Australian colonial music, and I found that aparently music didn't exist in Australia between 1700 and 1950. This is supposed to be an encyclopedia, not street press. If an artist is mentioned, it should be because they are INFLUENTIAL on the development of the various musical genres in Australia, not because they are 'good' or talented. And in an article this broad, they really should've made a large contribution. I can't believe Savage Garden are mentioned in this article and Banjo Paterson isn't. Sure, they might have been successful when measured by album sales, but how have they contributed musically or culturally (regardless of anyone's views on how good their music is). In my oppinion, they pretty much made the same style of pop music that was already around and are pretty much irrelevant to any serious study of Australian music/musical context. Just cos they were very good at it doesn't warrant inclusion in article this broad. Molly Meldrum's production on "The Real Thing" contributed more to the development of popular music than Savage Garden's entire career, successful though it was. What about music of the war period? Songs like 'Rroad to Gundigai' among others that have made a lasting cultural impact on this country are *not even mentioned*!

This isn't an article about music of Australia. It doesn't deserve any title like that. Perhaps you could change the title to 'Music in Australia lately that people like.'

As well as an encyclopedia, it's also a wiki. Therefore if it's missing something, you should go ahead and add it. Directly improve it. Go on! pfctdayelise (translate?) 05:20, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Australian music

A new project page is being setup. If anyone is interested in lending a hand, please come on over. —Moondyne 00:56, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

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Australian Rock

I've made some minor changes to the rock section of this article, added some additional text and corrected several glaring innaccuracies: Sunbury was NOT the first Australian rock festival (it was Ourimbah in 1970) and Mushroom was by no means the first independent Aussie label. There had been hundreds of local independent labels over the preceding decades and there were dozens of independent pop and rock labels in the twenty years before Mushroom, including Leedon, Clarion, Spin, Go!!, Astor, W&G and many more. Festival was also arguably an "independent" label, although this is debatable -- it was admittedly owned by Murdoch's News Ltd (although this was until the 1990s an Australian company) but it was independent of overseas control, unlike the other major Australian-based labels -- Polygram, EMI, CBS, Warner and RCA. Dunks 00:00, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Australian Classical Music

I've added a section on Australian Classical Music and also taken it to the Article Culture of Australia because I think it's pretty bad nothing is written on the subject (although unsurprising given the amount of media attention!). I will consider extending this into a full length article - but I need to learn how to reference properly first! Wellingtoncat (talk) 05:35, 19 March 2008 (UTC)


Deleted some advertising from the 1990s rock section: text was presumably added by the member of a band trying to get some publicity, but it didn't even come close to being appropriate. 152.78.64.180 (talk) 16:51, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

The Wiggles

Hey Giggy, A few months ago you removed the Wiggles section, with an edit summary saying something to the effect of, "Don't worry, it's coming back." I didn't worry about it because I figured that you had an idea/plan for them and realized their inclusion was not in the best possible place. Its been a few months now, and you haven't added them back. While they may be a kids group, I do think they deserve a section in this article. We have an FA for them. They've won several ARIAs. They are the most successful Australian muscial group ever. Now, I acknowledge that I'm not that invested in this article, and understand that their inclusion can be problematic (they aren't really a rock group), so I'm asking you and the other editors here for thoughts on how to include them.---Balloonman PoppaBalloon 14:48, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Oh dear, I've really slowed down to a halt on this article. I've probably got a pile up of pages in my userspace working on it. =\ Feel free to add any Wiggles stuff you want in; I'll try and throw together my "good" copy one of these days... Sorry about that. —Giggy 15:28, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
Why do I hear that "oh dear" is in the voice of a specific pirate?---Balloonman PoppaBalloon 19:05, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
I must confess to having grown up with Captain Feathersword. :-) —Giggy 06:16, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
I didn't think it was coincidence... it's not a phrase I've seen you use before ;-) ---Balloonman PoppaBalloon 07:01, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Third Wave

The third wave section sucks... it really needs to be trimmed down. There are lists of "business" managers which goes on forever. Similarly, the list of bands needs to be trimmed. If you want to have a list of bands/music managers, fine, but let's take them out of the article. As is, that section (which isn't the only one) is unlegible because it has too many lists. Create true lists and remove them from the article.---Balloonman PoppaBalloon 05:44, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Double

There were two Abramelin and Break Even's down the bottom in the list of Heavy Metal/Hard Rock and Hardcore bands, so I've removed one of each so that there's only one of each. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.107.29.179 (talk) 03:39, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

I'm in the US and was curious if The Eurogliders and/or Frente! warranted a mention on your page. They both enjoyed a brief bit of airplay & success over here, but I was wondering if they'd been overlooked or intentionally left off of your page (based on my incorrect assumption that they were a big deal in Oz). Cheers! Mattman of us (talk) 19:39, 14 January 2010 (UTC) Mattman_of_us Mattman of us (talk) 19:39, 14 January 2010 (UTC) 14 January 2010

So where is Sneaky Sound System in this article? They are an important dance band that have released 3 albums that have gone globally. Seems an incomplete article without them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 110.175.203.107 (talk) 06:47, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

Australian heavy metal

come on guys weres the Australian heavy metal in this article. we have a killer heavy metal scene, Brisbane Melborne, South Australia and Western Australia have killer scenes. fuck the hardcore shit talk aboutthe real heavy music.

I don't think the heavy metal scene in Australia is really that notable, in the grand scheme of things. I can't think of any Aussie heavy metal bands that've garnered world attention. So I don't think it's that relevant. Michaelterren (talk) 13:16, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Well Michael... Your anecdotal evidence is lacking. Bands such as Sadistik Exekution, Damaged and Cruciform caught the attention of the world stage in the late 80s/early 90s. Devolved are still doing fairly well over in America at the moment, after having left here in the early 00s. Parkway Drive are arguably one of the world's most successful extreme acts. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.171.25.125 (talk) 10:50, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Music of Australia

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Music of Australia's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "NLABio":

  • From Kev Carmody: "Kevin Carmody". Music Australia. National Library of Australia. 10 August 2004. Retrieved 19 August 2009.
  • From Graeme Bell: "Graeme Bell (1914–)". Music Australia. National Library of Australia. 26 November 1986. Retrieved 20 June 2009.
  • From Renée Geyer: "Renee Geyer". Music Australia. National Library of Australia. 2005-12-02. Retrieved 2009-04-10.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 12:58, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

Dead external links to Allmusic website – January 2011

Since Allmusic have changed the syntax of their URLs, 1 link(s) used in the article do not work anymore and can't be migrated automatically. Please use the search option on http://www.allmusic.com to find the new location of the linked Allmusic article(s) and fix the link(s) accordingly, prefereably by using the {{Allmusic}} template. If a new location cannot be found, the link(s) should be removed. This applies to the following external links:

--CactusBot (talk) 09:43, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

MUSIC OF aUSTRALIA

wHY WAS THE "DELLTONES" NOT MENTIONED —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.165.122.199 (talk) 00:17, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Omissions

The DellTones did have a high international profile indeed. And I am asking myself - did I just read an entire article on the music of Australia that did not have in it a single mention of The Seekers? While it's fascinating here to read of the national evolution of the various musical genres, I can assure you that from a U.S. perspective, the only artists from Oz known widely in this country before the true internationalization of Aussie pop and rock in the 70s, 80s and following were Joan Sutherland and The Seekers. regards, Sensei48 (talk) 21:04, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

European influences on Australian classical music

The focus seems to be on home-grown performers, which is fine. But we need also to acknowledge the influence of the (predominantly European) musicians who took up residence in Australia, mostly after WWII. I’m thinking of names such as:

The story of Australian music would be very lop-sided and biased without these sorts of names. Any ideas of how we weave them into the narrative of Australian classical music? (Hmmm, just noticed that I created 10 of the above articles myself. Funny, that; I hope I'm not displaying my own biases here.) -- Jack of Oz [your turn] 22:21, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Electronic Music

The last sentence of the first paragraph

However, not all contemporary Australian music is electronic; bands such as Yves Klein Blue continue to expand the indie rock genre with their innovative punk-style tunes such as "Polka", "Soldier",

and "About the Future".

seems to be out of context and irrelevant. Can somebody familiar with the band mentioned either fix the sentence so it has some relevant context, ie. what expanding the indie-rock genre has to do with electronic music, or delete it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.82.6.145 (talk) 15:28, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

For All You Australian Musicians...

Please don't stick yourself in the lists of artists regardless of your notability.

Look, here is Wikipedia's guide to notability: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability#General_notability_guideline

If you fulfil the criteria, then good! If you have some references from third-party reliable and notable sources that support your claim to fame, as it were, wonderful!

However, if you have nothing but your own website, you're not notable enough for inclusion. You might be fantastic and talented, you might be earning a living off your music, you might be up-and-coming, but you're not notable enough for Wikipedia... YET. Please don't make the article an A-Z of every person in Australia to have ever touched a guitar string, because you undermine the quality of the page and give all us contributors more work to do cleaning up the mess.

Kindest regards 77.99.12.140 (talk) 09:38, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

clasical correction

George Tolhurst seems to be notable for bad reviews of "Ruth" and hence not representative of Australian composers. Isaac Nathan was a prolific early Australian composer, but there are several hundred others from the colonial period to choose from. An earlier oratoria 1863 was written by Charles Sandys Packer.http://nla.gov.au/nla.mus-vn1592886 Tradimus (talk) 16:04, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

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Classical music

It looks as if the Classical music section is identical to the Australian classical music article. Perhaps the information could be summarized here, or the Australian classical music article blanked and redirected here.

There's no need for two articles with the same content.--CaroleHenson (talk) 08:38, 24 November 2016 (UTC)

It looks to me like it was created via unattributed copying back in August 2015. I think there's no need to split this article just yet and the other article should redirect here. If the opposite decision is taken, there will have to be attribution templates added to the talk pages of both articles. — Diannaa 🍁 (talk) 01:12, 26 November 2016 (UTC)

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historic footnote

Just an observation. I cautiously comment that between 1900 federation and the 1928 advent of 'talkies', there are a number of Australian composers who started moving beyond popular piano pieces by introducing orchestrations for instruments that were common then, namely violin and cornet. This trio combination seems a notable phenomena, published by Joe Slater, Clarence Elkin, Albert Saunders and Arthur Rooney. Tradimus (talk) 01:03, 29 November 2019 (UTC)

incomplete sentence

I found an incomplete sentence: "would go on to reach No. 11 on the ARIA Singles Chart." I guess it should be connected with the precedent one, but I'm not sure how to fix it. Jezabeliberté (talk) 20:46, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

Fixed. -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 22:55, 8 April 2021 (UTC)
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