Talk:Yogurt

Soy Yoghurt in the lead

This doesn't deserve to be in the lead as this information doesn't have any particular importance to the subject of yoghurt as a whole. It should be in a small subsection somewhere in the main body of the text.

Machines

There is nothing about yoghurt machines! --Error (talk) 00:21, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

What's so rich about the amount of nutrients in yoghurt?

As this article says there's only 3 grams of protein per 100g of yogurt. That's hardly rich. Adults need 50g of protein each day, a bit less for women. Nuts have far more protein than yoghurt and although plant proteins aren't complete, neither is yoghurt. I'm surprised to see a lower amino acid score on Nutrition Data. 9% of the daily value isn't rich either. You can find foods with far more B2 and B6 in them. I checked on Nutrition Data for B12 and that's also not rich, but it doesn't matter that much for B12. Our body will filter it out and reuse it. I know all nutrients add up when you eat a variety of foods each day, but in this case it's not good to say this specific food is rich in nutrients. People that are less literate in nutrition will take the word "rich" as a fact and use it as their nutrition guide, instead of looking at the numbers first. Vitamin C content per 100g of kiwi has 155% DV and that's rich. An apple with just 8% DV per 100g is not rich. HyborianRanger (talk) 02:11, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

Vandalism

There were some vandalism with vulgar words. I do not have an account and instead of trying to change all the words, I tried to copy and paste the words and code from an earlier version. I hope this has helped and please keep an eye on this article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.227.12.134 (talk) 16:38, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

Dietetic Value Of Yogurt

I really need to know the dietetic value of yogurt! Could anybody tell me? Who should eat yogurt etc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.40.252.223 (talk) 20:36, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

Lassi

We do not need Lassi mentioned in 2 consecutive sections, the second time less informatively than the first. But the question arises of where it belongs. The 2 paragraphs on yogurt-based foods are about sweetened smoothies. The section on beverages where it is already mentioned talks about it as salty. Are there variant kinds of Lassi, some sweetened and others not? I agree it is important to mention Lassi, but the article already says more about it than is in the sentence that is being re-added. So is the problem that the 2 sections are not mutually exclusive and Lassi could be classed in either? If that is the reason 2 editors see it as "vital" to add Lassi to the second section, perhaps the section on beverages should be merged together with the section on yogurt-based foods? Yngvadottir (talk) 04:49, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

I see that as I was writing this, User:Betsyblume combined the 2 by eliminating a subheader. So unless there are sweet and non-sweet variants of Lassi, it's in the section. Yngvadottir (talk) 04:53, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

for info there are both sweet and salted variety of Lassi. A very popular sweet lassi in indian restaurants outside of Indian sub-continent is the 'mango lassi'. Salted lassi varieties are more common within India. Due to regional variations lassi sometimes refer to different yogurt beverages in different parts of India. AuM01 (talk) 21:57, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Spelling

The most common spelling, as per Google, is "yogurt". Why does "Yogurt" redirect to "Yoghurt" ? --81.174.47.74 (talk) 16:58, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

See WP:LAME#Yogurt. –xeno^talk 17:01, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Believe me, I agree wholeheartedly that the article should be Yogurt, and I think a strong case was made to move it, but I think that even in light of the strong arguments for the move BACK to yogurt, consensus is that people are fucking morons, so it's going to stay as-is. Yay. Morons. -Kai445 (talk) 00:52, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

I got a WP:PA notice. I wasn't criticizing Xeno personally (who I don't know), and my comment was not intended to be directed towards Xeno either. I am critical of the whole of the contributors that were on the pro-status-quo side of the debate. -Kai445 (talk) 01:41, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

You should display that WP:PA notice with pride. "consensus is that people are fucking morons" is probably the most insightful comment I've seen on any talk page ever. -Elliskev 04:11, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

Well yes, the most common spelling is yogurt, not yoghurt, in my personal experience the ratio of the former to the latter is 4 to 1,i.e 80% versus 20 %. Google hits carried out only in the English language internet space give approximately the same picture 42 million versus 11 million. The vast majority of fast food restaurant chains( Subway,McDonalds,Starbucks etc) cites yogurt, not yoghurt in their menus . In addition to it all, all the online dictionaries(sic) give the main spelling of this word as yogurt, yoghurt being secondary in all the cases). So please let's stick to the mainstream and respell this word in the article.

I have reverted your change. You did not wait for responses, and you appear to be discounting the evidence presented in the article itself - Etymology and spelling section - that there is international variation in the spelling of the word. As that section states, yogurt is the spelling in the US - which will normally dominate in Google hits - but in other parts of the English-speaking world, yoghurt either predominates or is equally common, and yogourt also occurs. (I don't know what country you are drawing your fast food evidence from, but from the list I suspect the US.) Yoghurt is an acceptable international spelling to compromise between differing regional usages; there is no reason to change it, especially since the article has a section near the start that clearly explains that there are regional differences. Yngvadottir (talk) 13:59, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

The argument has been made - and proven - several times that the vast majority of visitors to this page use only the spelling "yogurt". Your continual defense of the spelling "yoghurt" is an overt act of narcissism and reeks of anti-US sentiment. It is completely irrelevant that there is a section on the variant spellings of the word within the article - the spelling of the word outside of that section should reflect the most popular spelling and not your short-sighted unwillingness to admit that other people are right. Unfortunately, it will take an actual administrator to take notice of this and actually care (again) in order to fix this problem. I do, however, find it amusing that you have so little else to do that you must check this page every day for reversions in order to further your anti-American agenda. Laplacian54 (talk) 21:39, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

I have it watchlisted because it gets vandalized a lot. Assume bad faith, much? The article's spelling needs to match where it's at - changing it would require a move (and consistent changing throughout the article - the last change only went part of the way through the first section). What's your evidence that yogurt is the most popular spelling? All we have so far here is occasional assertions about personal experience, which is not a strong argument for moving the article in the face of long-term stability and reasoning clearly made within the article. Yngvadottir (talk) 04:10, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

Does it matter in the slightest that the Oxford English Dictionary lists it as "yogurt", as well as the Cambridge International Dictionary of English and the Collins English Dictionary, leading to a 100% agreement between the three major British and International English dictionaries listed in the Comparison of English dictionaries? Actually, Webster's and American Heritage ALSO concur. It seems that Kai445 is undoubtedly correct. The insistence of "yoghurt" over "yogurt" smacks of elitism and absolute ignorance. Either there is, as has been pointed out, a considerable anti-American sentiment amongst the editors of this site, or there is a fierce effort by culinary elitists in an attempt to alienate regular people. It is totally absurd, and irresponsibly foolish to adhere to your spelling of "yoghurt" in the face of insurmountable evidence that it should be "yogurt". What you're suggesting is that the unanimous decision by the editors of these dictionaries, who are professionals in the field of study relevant to this debate, is anything less than "insurmountable evidence". DTXBrian (talk) 23:52, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Despite WP:LAME#Yogurt, moves based on WP:COMMONNAME are quite normal. What's problematic with the current title is that it is regularly challenged because it so blatantly violates WP:COMMONNAME. That would not be the case if the title was changed, because there would no longer be a WP:COMMONNAME violation if the article was at Yogurt. Perhaps it's time for another move proposal and discussion? --Born2cycle (talk) 22:16, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

We could have overwhelming, kumbaya hand-holding, worldwide public support, and a select group of assholes would still gum up the works. I'm all for it, but good luck. -Kai445 (talk) 19:26, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

Perhaps you don't realise that Webster's (all dictionaries using that name) and the American Heritage Dictionary are purely American - and also known for being descriptive rather than prescriptive? And the Cambridge International Dictionary of English, likewise, is avowedly showing what's out there. I checked, and found recent British sources using the spelling yoghurt (in addition to Australian, of course), and specifically found this use of Webster's Third listing 3 spellings for the word as an illustration of its legendary non-prescriptiveness, contrasted explicitly just below that with the Oxford Dictionary for Writers and Editors requiring the use of the gh spelling. So the situation has not changed: it is still only in America that the g spelling is the preferred one. Still not a violation of WP:COMMONNAME, therefore, but rather a good compromise with the situation explained in the article itself. Yngvadottir (talk) 19:49, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

I guess it doesn't matter that the largest manufacturer of yogurt in the world, Groupe Danone, spells it "Yogurt". I guess it doesn't matter that the second largest manufacturer of yogurt in the world, Yoplait, spells it "Yogurt". I guess it doesn't matter that the world's largest organic yogurt manufacturer, Stonyfield, spells it "Yogurt". I guess it doesn't matter that google searches, most dictionaries (including the OED, including your own link to Webster's Third that lists 'Yogurt' first) and all of the other evidence supporting in the last 'Move' movement, shows 'Yogurt' as preferred. If it's listed first in the order, then it's clearly the most primary spelling, regardless of whether you want to dismiss it as "showing what is out there". And saying "only in America" is blatantly false, and smacks of simply anti-Americanism as previously alluded to. -Kai445 (talk) 20:14, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

I guess it doesn't matter to you that Webster's is an American dictionary? Google hits are not a valid basis for decisions - nor are marketing labels. This is a matter of WP:ENGVAR and the current title - with explanation of how usage varies - is a good compromise solution. The size of the US market does not mean US usage is normative. In a case such as this, a compromise with explanation is best. And I note that after being raised multiple times in the past, this issue was quiet until suddenly, a couple of people who apparently cannot accept that English varies across the globe, want to change it. I looked at the evidence in case usage in the UK had changed as you implied; I see no sign that it has. So you have not persuaded me, and the numerical argument is invalid anyway. In cases such as this, a compromise that is clearly understandable and clearly explained in the article is objectively best, and this is demonstrated by the fact things were quiet on the issue for a couple of years. I appreciate your concern that your usage looms largest in your world, but I oppose the move because there is no compelling evidence that it has won out worldwide, or that the present solution is a bad one. Yngvadottir (talk) 21:19, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

Maybe you didn't catch the spelling of the company, but Groupe Danone is a multi-national congolmerate, headquartered in Spain, and they spell it "Yogurt" (Canadian Label, Great Britain). I would think that the largest, worldwide, manufacturer, branding it "Yogurt", should have some sort of relevance (again, regardless if you dismiss it).

"Silence is the weakest form of consensus" according to Wikipedia. I can come back here every day until it's changed if you'd like, and continuously voice my opinion, to preserve lack of consensus. It's not been consensus, it's been a cease-fire.

How about coming up with reasons to be Pro-Yoghurt, instead of Anti-Yogurt.-Kai445 (talk) 21:49, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

Furthermore, with regards to "you're looking at American and internationalist dictionaries".... isnt INTERNATIONAL the point of Wikipedia. And with regards to "I find no change in international usage to justify changing it", what research has led you to such a conclusion? Did you conduct a random multi-national telephone poll with a large sample size? How about an internet poll? Or did you dig up an original research article that studied the modern day etymology and usage of the word "Yogurt"? No? None of those things? Well, I guess it's alright to be a dick then. -Kai445 (talk) 21:56, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

Internationalist dictionaries list all the variants found in all varieties of English. As the article already explains, there are places where yogurt, yoghurt, and yogourt are found as spellings. Look again at those two links I gave you. One shows a US dictionary known for being non-prescriptive saying "These are 3 spellings that are used". The other - explicitly contrasted with it - shows an Oxford style guide requiring writers to use yoghurt. I've given you the justification for being pro-yoghurt: it's the best compromise. Combined, of course, with an explanation that usage varies, and how. Since you had listed dictionaries, I checked online and found the style guide reference I cited in response; and tons of bibliographic references to recent British publications (including agricultural/food science/economics) using the spelling yoghurt. Sheer numbers of people in the US are greater, but that is not decisive in matters of English variation. Other places publish authoritative English books too. And it is noticeable that the debate has stilled because it was such a perennial in the past, so I believe it justifiable to point to that. I will continue to oppose the move you propose;it isn't the case, as you asserted, that dictionary and usage authorities agree, so it doesn't fall under WP:COMMONNAME. Yngvadottir (talk) 00:52, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

Obviously the debate continues, and there is no consensus support for the current title. It may well be that if the article was moved, Yogurt also would not achieve consensus support. But, just the same, it well might achieve consensus support for the reason I stated above - there would be no reasonable argument based in policy or guidelines to move it to Yoghurt. Either way, we won't know unless we try it, by moving this article to Yogurt. To me, the chance of finally settling this issues is the strongest argument in favor of moving it to Yogurt. Who will propose it? --Born2cycle (talk) 01:12, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

I will second any proposal :). An etymologist and noted scholar did weigh in on this exact debate. "There is no right or wrong here, but evidence suggests that yogurt without the 'h' will become dominant," writer and etymologist Michael Quinion said. "It is more crisp and short, the word is spelt as it sounds ... The Americans have been using yogurt as the correct spelling for at least 150 years." Someone who isn't just an armchair expert thinks no-H is the way to go. -Kai445 (talk) 01:21, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

Interesting that American seems to use the -h already for over 150 years, when it was only introduced in the US around 100 years ago (see the main article)... little overestimation ? I wonder when the word first pops up in English ? 1910 ?Knorrepoes (talk) 18:38, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

what about gogurt??? - steven smead

Other uses

I think I remember hearing somewhere that yoghurt was once routinely used to perform colonic irrigations and enemas? Is this true? If it is, is it worth mentioning? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.6.96.22 (talk) 10:53, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Yes, definitelye worth mentioning. 98.141.248.50 (talk) 17:45, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

Unrelated Information regarding Turkish alphabet

I have removed the below sentence from the introductory section as the below statement has nothing to do with the fact that the turkish letter 'ğ' is used for yoğurt.

.. which used to be written in a variant of the Arabic alphabet until the introduction of the Latin alphabet in 1928.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hektormidas (talk • contribs) 21:25, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

This pages mentions Pliny as the earliest textual mention of Yogurt but this substance is found in the pre-christian Pali Buddhist texts and there are also several words for yogurt in Sanskrit (sarpis, yagu) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.172.126.160 (talk) 21:54, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Requesting Page Pertection Due to Vandalisem.

Someone has Vandalized this page and made it say Yoghurt instead of Yogurt. Also, someone has posted a pointless picture of someone or himself on the page. Please do so. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.72.172.244 (talk) 21:15, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

Move page to Yogurt

I suggest we move this page per WP:COMMON. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) 16:43, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose This has been much discussed, but the present spelling is a liveable compromise and the article itself fairly explains the variety of usage in different English-speaking countries. Moving it to the US spelling would only reflect what is common in the US. Yngvadottir (talk) 17:32, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose Anybody searching for the alternative spelling will end up here. I do not see any reasons to move it since, as Yngvadottir already pointed out, the spelling is explained in the article.--Laveol ^T 17:44, 15 September 2011 (UTC)