User talk:Jimbo Wales

Question concerning the Arbitration Committee's terms of office

I'm asking this here because, even though the community election suggests the members, you do the actual selecting, and so your insight concerning "membership" would seem to be something that would be likely invaluable.

From another discussion (which is still even barely in its formative stages) We were making comparisons to the length of terms of an arbcomm member.

And it would seem that 3 years is quite a long time. Is there any particular reason for this? Or is it merely that 3 is nicely scalable to 3 tranches, with yearly elections?

If the latter, would you be willing to entertain the idea of 2 year terms, with 4 tranches, with semi-annual (6 month) elections? (This would, by its nature, increase the membership from 15 (3 tranches of 5 seats) to 16 (4 tranches of 4 seats).)

I also think this might help with the burnout and inactiveity that seems to come with the job (quite a few seem to have become inactive and/or quit before the duration of their terms.)

What do you think? - jc37 22:08, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

I will raise the question with the ArbCom when the time comes, but one of the reasons for such a long term is so that ArbCom members have a certain amount of "judicial independence" needed to make possibly unpopular decisions. Another reason is that we want our ArbCom to have a strong "institutional memory". And finally, it seems to me that experience matters. At the same time, I do acknowledge that the long terms do lead to a situation where members may burnout or become inactive before their terms are up, and that's worthy of taking note of when thinking about the optimal length of terms.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 22:10, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

I would agree with all of the above. Thank you very much for your thoughts and consideration. - jc37 22:16, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

My initial reaction to your post, Jc37, is that 3 years is a very short time, i certainly don't think we should have arbcom elections more than once a year, if anything less as it takes up a lot of community energy. Most political elections are for 4 or 5 years and for the reasons Jimbo outlines. Thanks, SqueakBox 22:31, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

The internet, and interactions thereof, is quite different than RL terms for political office. (Noting also that Arbcomm shouldn't be considered a political office.) My belief is based on my own personal observations of "online" interactions. And I remember a quote from a friend of mine (who was probably quoting someone else) essentially suggesting that "Online, 6 months is this side of forever". It's very similar to the service industry. In a restaurant, it's not uncommon to see entire crews of employees "turn over" in a 6-month period. And Wikipedia is a volunteer service. 2 years is still a fairly lengthy amount of time, and I think it would provide the "cover" and stability necessary in the position, as noted above. - jc37 22:39, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

I agree with you that 3 years seems like quite a long time. That said, a considerable amount of effort is used on the Arbitration Committee elections already. Do we wish to double the time we spend electing people? I don't think that's a particularly good way to solve a problem, personally. Not that I have any better suggestions... --Deskana (talk) 22:41, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

While I could indeed be wrong, I think having the elections semi-annually would actually reduce the "amount of effort". Personally, I think much of the "extra effort" is because it's only "once a year". The time in between is so lengthy, that much ground is re-tread. And with more than a few new faces. So essentially the elections suffer somewhat from needing more of that same "institutional memory". But, again, that's just my personal observation of last time. - jc37 22:49, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

I think 3 years is a reasonable time, but perhaps Jimbo could do an health check each 3 or 6 months, and if an arbitrator has become inactive/burned, then he could appoint someone to take over the rest of the term. _→AzaToth 23:00, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Are there any stats available for inactivity/quit/removal? - jc37 23:09, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

There's a timeline at Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee showing when people joined and left the ArbCom. At a quick glance, it looks like less than half of all members serve out the full three years. --Carnildo (talk) 08:32, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for the link. I had seen that, but was hoping that more statistics (with more information) might exist somewhere, or that some person "in the know" might helpfully be willing to create them : ) - jc37 16:48, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Other than perhaps because the internet population is younger than the meatspace population i disagree that 3 years is a long time online (and it certainly shouldn't be) and I don't think your restaurant analogy is fair because people waiting on tables are in low skilled jobs which maybe you can learn in a few weeks, and if a hamburger chain had that high a turn over of its upper echelons it would be run out of business very quickly, and arbcom is at the intellectual/demanding end of wikipedia. Thanks, SqueakBox 23:04, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Going by the burnout rate 3 years is a long time but that burnout rate means we can't really afford to shorten it.Geni 01:57, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Responsible Editing Pledge

Would you give your consideration to signing this pledge from doc Glasgow. Thanks, SqueakBox 00:53, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Do all the signees to the pledge agree that:

"Writing about a living person anonymously is blatantly cowardly." ?

I am surprised and disappointed, to say the least. Abecedare (talk) 01:15, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Jimbo does not edit anonymously anyway so that bit does not apply to him, and if you think the terminology is too strong please consider changing it, its an open to edit page. Thanks, SqueakBox 01:51, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

True, Jimbo doesn't edit anonymously. He prefers editing with his own user account.--RyRy5 (talk) 01:54, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

"Anonymous" here means "does not disclose any personal information" rather than "unregistered". Hut 8.5 18:03, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

His user page gives his identity. The cowardly bit is gone. doc Glasgow was a serious editor addressing the most serious issue wikipedia faces as it grows successfully, ie BLP. Thanks, SqueakBox 01:58, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

I have expanded on my comment here. And now, having writ, move on. Regards. Abecedare (talk) 02:33, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

What's to stop someone from taking the pledge with the real name, and then violating it by anonymous editing? -- Seth Finkelstein (talk) 03:42, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

What happens when someone pledges to stop drinking or taking drugs and then breaks that pledge? Same thing I would have thought. Thanks, SqueakBox 03:45, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Nothing really, and those who'd sign the pledge legitimately probably aren't a problem when they edit biographies either - but neither of these are really the point. WilyD 13:28, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm anonymous and I created the initial WP:BLP proposal. Was that ok? I'm a nice old retired man with serious health problems and I need to keep my stress levels under control. Does that make me "cowardly"? WAS 4.250 (talk) 00:23, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

You are marginally anonymous as your user name at least gives your former (and perhaps current) location, and certainly IMO one of the least cowardly editors around, if we have to use that word that I never wanted to anyway. I am not asking anyone to endorse cowardly anything, or indeed to endorse anything, just give doc's pledge consideration. I think of you in much the same light as I think of doc Glasgow. I didn't know you were old and retired (I'm middle aged and have to work hard) but it does not surprise me. Thanks for creating the BLP, a truly inspired move. Thanks, SqueakBox 20:22, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Request for Arbcomm for User:William M. Connolley

It has been brought to my attention ([1]) that you and William are acquanted. Currently (User:HooperBandP/Sandbox4), an Arbcomm case is being prepared to have his adminship removed do to some reasons. If it is true that you are acquanted with him, Arbcomm may be unwilling to rule even if he has broken policy as we believe. Even if we are wrong, we would love to have your input in the situation since it is of such a sensitive matter. We want the ruling fair and NPOV whether in support of us or William, and if you are acquanted with him, it may be best for you to atleast be aware of it. Hooper (talk) 18:01, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

As a note, this user has been canvassing several article talk pages about this, as per [[2]]. Jtrainor (talk) 20:47, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply. Its what I assumed was true but good to have for the others. Also, you are our celebrity, so don't be humble. You're to wikipedia what Chuck Norris is to WoW.com, and what Pedophilia is to 4chan. Now that I say that, I'm not sure exactly how good that last one is.... ;) Hooper (talk) 17:10, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Feedback to Jimbo Wales' korean news interview

Hi, I am a wikipediholic, I am Top 10 user in ko: wikipedia.

You are interviw with korean No.1 newspaper, korean No.1 consevative newspaper, The Chosun Ilbo. I read it.[3] [4] [5]

My feedback. listen, please.

Korean wikipedia's main problem is you.

Why? you know korean language? no.

Many korean user speak english well? no.

When some big problen is here, all users see "the president". you.

but you don't speak korean, we don't speak englsih.

So, we see 3 beurocrats. ko: wiki have only 3 beurocrats.

but, problem is...3 beurocrats!! :( dictatorial, bureaucracy, irrational. :(

2 beurocrats are came from other kroean own wiki. they are dictatorial. All admins are their party, their code, All admins are "democrats"!!

There is no diversity.

So, one basic user come here -> they rule him (dictatorial, bureaucracy, irrational) -> and, he is go out. never come again.

This is my private opnion. I use ko: wiki for 3 years, I edit over 10,000. I am Top 10 user.

How to solve?

I think...

Wikipedia:List of non-admins with high edit counts this article's korean version is ko:위키백과:기여가 많은 일반 사용자 명단

all user in there, make them all to administrator. all user in there, make them all to beurocrat.

and, admin groups argue meta:Polls_are_evil for their dictatorial, bureaucracy, irrational.

make precise "vote polcy" to ko: wiki.

and, make precise fair use polcy to ko: wiki. They attack beginner for no fair use. and they announce "legal" problem to begninner. In korea, "Legal" means so terrible. They send away begninner. so loose fair use rule is needed.

All admins and berocrats argue "no fair use!". EVERYONE!! :(

Make precise "problem solve procedure policy" to ko: wiki. they don't know how to solve. we don't know how to solve.

Etc...in ko: wiki, I feel so many reform. And, I need..."YOU", Jimmy Wales, EARNESTLY!!

Thank you for reading. :) -- WonYong^Talk 05:23, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

In your perspective it would be best to consider Jimbo as the founder of an off-Korea software company (the software in this instance being the wiki method applied to encyclopedia building). Jimbo invents the software concept of "Wikipedia" and gives the license to use that software to any that wish to use it - however, he is not responsible how the software is used, providing that it does not contravene local laws. Therefore, it is up to the license users to determine how it should be regulated - and it is also the responsibility of those license users in their dealing with the Wiki aspect. In short, it isn't something that Jimbo can intervene in - and it is something that needs resolving at the Korea level. It might help if you took Jimbo out of the equation.

• If this is counter to how Jimbo has operated in the past - or is just plain wrong - please feel free to remove this response. LessHeard vanU (talk) 21:48, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Trifling thing...

Hi! It's great leaving a message to the guy himself... I've always loved Wikipedia and, thankfully, have no complaints. Question - gee, it's hard asking this without sounding like a desperate fan, begging with wide eyes and sweating like a pig - may you please sign my guestbook? If it's breaking some sort of policy, there's no need. I'm currently trying to collect as many signatures as possible, as a side hobby to editing. Thanks again! --^LaPianísta! 15:06, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

admin

you should make yourself an admin.--Altenhofen (talk) 19:49, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Jimbo can band user's from wikipedia, and a lot more things. He has better tools than admins I think, I mean, he created wikipedia. I think he'll be alright. Right Jimbo?--RyRy5 (talk) 19:52, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Jimbo already is an admin. Hut 8.5 19:59, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

and yes he has other user rights too, see here for an idea. Thanks, SqueakBox 20:03, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

I figured he was an admin. But nothing on his userpage said he was one. Well, you wouldn't want to brag.--RyRy5 (talk) 20:04, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

That fixes it. An admin icon.--RyRy5 (talk) 20:13, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

It seemed a simple solution. Aleta ^Sing 20:19, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

But still, something clarifies that Jimbo's an admin. So good job I guess.--RyRy5 (talk) 21:50, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

His record in working in the admin capacity is not without its... history. Jimbo has created a classification of "Founder", in which capacity he has access to more levels of site control than any admin (or 'crat or Steward - I believe) and perhaps shouldn't be "limited" by the badge of sysop. In his analogy of being similar to the Queen you don't generally use the minor titles - you stick with the familiar major one. Generally, that has been "Jimbo". It seems to be enough. LessHeard vanU (talk) 21:56, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Anonymous edit blocks of Verizon customers by admin Georgewilliamherbert

This admin had blocked literally thousands of IP addresses from anonymous editing. He has in effect arbitrarily done away with concept of open editing at Wikipedia. He has done this to control who edits Wikipedia. I am here to tell you with certainty he has failed. The editor who he has sought to block has continued to edit maliciously using several different user names. The editing is done in such a way as to be virtually undetectable by a bot or the casual vandal ranger. In fact George's actions merely incite those with a malicious bent to continue to work to have Wikipedia die the death of 10,000 cuts. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hfpshfxjmmjbnifscfsu (talk • contribs) 03:02, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

For what it's worth, I see a number of rangeblocks by Georgewilliamherbert from back in March, all relating to activity by User:Wikzilla. GWH's block log. Tony Fox (arf!) 03:46, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

More on Giovanni di Stefano

In light of the recent activity regarding this figure I have made some major structural changes to the article. It appears to be well referenced but perhaps covers too much of his "negative side" and controversies rather that actually documenting the bulk of his legal profession work to date. There is a tag and claims that it is inaccurate. Could somebody take the liberty and inform me just what is claimed to be false, is it his 1986 fraud case or what? The articles uses reliable mainstream sources BBC, The Guardian etc so an article on him using such sources mus thave some validity even if it is not written in a completely neutral and balanced way ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ ^$1,000,000? 08:19, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Vicious troll from Wikipedia Review

There is an evil troll from the Wikipedia Review disrupting the Postmodernism article with his trollish edits. Stop him now.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.133.180.53 (talk • contribs)

Actually you're doing rather well with this article, cutting gibberish. Now, do everyone a favor and stop dicking around here, OK? -- Hoary (talk) 10:28, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Outrageous. I have just said I am a banned user. Someone has to block me! 86.133.180.53 (talk) 10:32, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Oh do shut up here and continue to improve the Postmodernism article, there's a good fellow. -- Hoary (talk) 10:33, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Board restructure

The board restructure says that you will have a seat on the foundation for as long as you like. You said that you would stand down from the board this year. Is that still going to happen.

Thanks and happy editing,

--Smallbig (Anonymous101 on Wikinews) 16:06, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

I have never said that I would stand down from the board, not sure what you meant by that. My term still expires at the end of 2008 and can be renewed by the board for another year. There is nothing which guarantees me a seat for "as long as I like" but presumably I am likely to be renewed as long as I am contributing appropriately as a board member and want to continue. --Jimbo Wales (talk) 17:08, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Oh, other Wikinewsies have said you said you will stand down from the board. --Smallbig (Anonymous101 on Wikinews) 17:55, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Ah, well, not sure where that idea came from.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 19:12, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

What's Crackin'

I think you're swell. -- Me^Holla! 17:17, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Deletion

(Deletion log); 23:21 . . Krimpet (Talk | contribs) deleted "Talk:Houston McCoy" (Courtesy deletion)

Well that's confusing, I miss something? Sherurcij ^{(Speaker for the Dead)} 17:32, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

It was deleted as a courtesy to a living person who objected to some of the discussion on the page remaining available. See WP:DP#Courtesy blanking. krimpet✽ 18:07, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I figured that's what "courtesy deletion" was, my curiosity stems from the fact the subject's lawyer just eMailed me to ask why it was deleted and cursed WP for deleting it...Is there an OTRS ticket or something for the request for deletion? Sherurcij ^{(Speaker for the Dead)} 20:00, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Yes, OTRS ticket #2008042710011139 - it was forwarded from the requester to OTRS by Jimmy Wales, who made the deleted comment in question and suggested a courtesy deletion. He may be the best one to ask about this issue. krimpet✽ 21:00, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Any chance you could help clear this up? I don't personally care, but Moore's somewhat harrasing, and I'd rather be able to explain to him why it was deleted if he's legitimately confused. Sherurcij ^{(Speaker for the Dead)} 23:37, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Cyberstalking and Google Indexing Discussion Pages

I am in complete agreement with User:Newyorkbrad on the Google indexing issue, as he has outlined here. This change needs to happen, and the foot-dragging on issues such as a WMF Cyberstalking policy and the Google indexing of discussion pages is getting to be intolerable for many long-standing users. Some leadership on this would be nice, Jim. --David Shankbone 03:53, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Vandal

Hi i would like to urge you to do something or talk to the adusive administrator User:Steel. He has multiple times deleted notable articles and being in a bad faith admin against many on the wikipedia community.--213.65.40.11 (talk) 07:37, 29 April 2008 (UTC)