Talk:Kosovo Serbs

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: uncontested move. DrKay (talk) 09:55, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

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Serbs of Kosovo → Kosovo Serbs – - Per WP:CommonName. 'Kosovo Serbs' is the common English language phrase used to describe the Serb community/ diaspora of Kosovo.

• Google Books Evidence:
  • "Kosovo Serbs" = 574 Books
  • "Serbs of Kosovo" = 98 Books
• Google Scholar Evidence:
  • "Kosovo Serbs" = 1,850 Journals
  • "Serbs of Kosovo" = 144 Journals
• Google News
  • "Kosovo Serbs" = search results
  • "Serbs of Kosovo" = No results found for "Serbs of Kosovo"

Main stream English language media in the UK, US and Serbia use the term "Kosovo Serbs", here are few examples: BBC, The Guardian, The Telegraph, B92, CNN and Fox News. Even the lead to this article describes them as "Kosovo Serbs", not "Serbs of Kosovo". Then we have the article "Kosovo Serb enclaves".

• Conclusion - "Kosovo Serbs" is the Common Name used for the Serb Community/ Diaspora of Kosovo. IJA (talk) 07:06, 23 August 2014 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Total number

Some infobox numbers aren't referenced.So population in Serbia practically isn't referenced (the link is broken or invalid) ,also the total population isn't referenced.Can someone provide a reference to the total number.If not ,I have to put the total number as the total sum of populations in Serbia+Kosovo. Rolandi+ (talk) 18:45, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

Is that number unreliable? If not, why would you edit it? Your behaviour is disruptive. Why do you insist on the 2011 Census in Kosovo numbers when it is a fact that it was largely boycotted by Serbs? If there are 205,835 Kosovo Serbs living in Serbia, and ca. 100,000 in Kosovo, that number gives ca. 300,000. The numbers for other countries has not been added (Montenegro and Bosnia has a notable number of displaced Kosovo Serbs as well).--Zoupan 19:22, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

OK,just provide a reference about the numbers in Montenegro+Bosnia. "The numbers for other countries has not been added (Montenegro and Bosnia has a notable number of displaced Kosovo Serbs as well)" ---so the numbers in Bosnia+ Montenegro are decided by you?????? Rolandi+ (talk) 19:28, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

The second source for Montenegro: "Crna Gora je pružila (ili pruža) utočište za 18.047 interno raseljenih osoba s Kosova od kojih je većina izbjegla 1999., a manji broj njih 2000. (Izvještaj o registracijiraseljenih lica..., 2003). Među interno raseljenima trećina su Romi, a najviše ih je smješteno u romskim naseljima, gdje su izmiješani s lokalnim sunarodnjacima ... Ukupan broj raseljenih u Crnoj Gori je približno 26.500" This gives the number of at least 12,000 having left Kosovo as refugees and displaced persons in 1999–2000. The number of those that left later is not included. The number of 8,000 refers those which still have the status of displaced persons; the number of persons which have been given Montenegrin citizenship is unknown. Thus, Kosovo Serbs in Montenegro are at least 12,000. Parliamentary Assembly Documents 2001 Ordinary Session (First part), Volume III. Council of Europe. pp. 169–. ISBN 978-92-871-4630-4. The number of internally displaced persons (IDPs) amounts to 188 000 in Serbia and 31 000 in Montenegro.' The overwhelming majority of them are Serbs.--Zoupan 12:31, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

Ethnic cleaning

Nacionalist media is not reliable source, doesn't mention kosovo with its official name .It has also comments ,so it is just a blog.There are some nacionalist comments that makes it clear that it isn't a serious Source. Rolandi+ (talk) 11:24, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

I do not see any nationalist media. Which source are you referring to?--Zoupan 12:30, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

Infobox profiles

I think that the infobox should only include notable Kosovo Serbs, and not people such as Dačić (born in Kosovo, to parents from central Serbia; he was not brought up in Kosovo) and Novak (only his paternal grandfather was born in Kosovo).--Zoupan 20:51, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

There are more of similar examples in these articles. Novak is a notable Kosovo Serb. His father was born in Kosovo. For example, Mother Teresa is mentioned in articles about Kosovo Albanians and Macedonian Albanians both. --Aca Srbin (talk) 23:32, 25 June 2015 (UCT)

We are talking about this article now. I don't see the addition of Novak and Dačić as realistic. Novak is already at the Serbs' infobox. @Aca Srbin: Do you insist on the addition? I do not support it. --Zoupan 14:54, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

That is the way to other similar articles, considering bithplace and origin. I gave the example of Maria Theresa. -Aca Srbin (talk) 18:15, 12 July 2015 (UCT)

Further reading

• "Издања која препоручујемо - СРБИ НА КОСОВУ И У МЕТОХИЈИ". SANU. 2005..--Zoupan 16:53, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
• "Издања која препоручујемо - КОСОВО И МЕТОХИЈА". SANU. 2006..--Zoupan 16:53, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
• Dusan T. Batakovic (1992). "THE KOSOVO CHRONICLES". Translated by Dragana Vulicevic. Plato..--Zoupan 17:04, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

"eventually was used to r"

It eventually was used to r[82][83] In modern anthropology, the historical validity of the term has been criticized as well as its use as a tool of nation-building and homogenization policies of the Serbian state.[84]

This is in the section "Albanisation".

Does anyone perhaps know what word "r" was the first letter of, before it ended up in its current state? --Calthinus (talk) 02:02, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

I removed that and also moved the content of that very small section to the main demographics one. I also have a problem with speaking in absolutes about the demographics of an era in which we don't have any census tools. The sentence is After the Middle Ages, the Serbs continued to be the absolute majority of the population of present-day Kosovo; through the 15th, 16th, and late 17th century, evident from Latin and Venetian travellers, such as Jacob Soranzo (1575), bishop Marin Bizzi (1610), ethnic Albanian bishop Petar Mazarek (1623), and bishop Giorgio Bianchi (1638) by Karapandic (1986), a Serbian historian. I think that should also be removed as POV or rephrased with other bibliography to reflect the much more nuanced view of international scholarship.--Maleschreiber (talk) 03:12, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

Calthinus, Maleschreiber. See Frederick F. Anscombe. The Ottoman Empire in Recent International Politics - II: The Case of Kosovo. He takes to task both Albanian and Serb historians. He discusses the medieval period and populations, outside the usual bs. An available copy is here. [1]. Best.Resnjari (talk) 11:42, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

Despite what the wikipedia article might tell some editors, the Dečani chrysobulls weren't a form of census. It doesn't list ethnicities, nations, languages spoken or anything which some editors apparently believe it contains. It's a charter with a list of concessions to the church. Do any of these editors understand how bizarre it is to attribute percentages to a Slavic Orthodox document from the early 14th century?--Maleschreiber (talk) 02:01, 4 May 2020 (UTC)

Kosovo Vilayet is not equivalent to Kosovo

I'm starting a discussion so I don't have to write the same summary every time someone thinks it's ok to add an Austrian report from 1899 which says that "Albanians were 48% and Serb 43%" in the area. The area here refers to the Kosovo Vilayet, an area almost twice the size of Kosovo today. The same information is on Kosovo_Vilayet#1899 from where editors usually copy/paste it. From now on, just don't that.--Maleschreiber (talk) 02:18, 4 May 2020 (UTC)

Two things on this. The initial data was based on a source from 1899 from a Austro-Hungarian report. That is WP:PRIMARY and i removed it [2] because its not WP:SECONDARY, and my reason was based on WP:AGEMATTERS. It was recently reinserted by @WEBDuB using a WP:SECONDARY source [3]. Two problems emerge, no page number and no link to the source. I would like to remind all editors here that if your adding something to the article, please provide a page number. Other editors are not going to go looking for page numbers and do the heavy lifting if one can't bothered. Until a page number is provided, etc, that bit can stay out. And as such, one shouldn't even bother with it here, unless something of that nature is provided.Resnjari (talk) 13:32, 4 May 2020 (UTC)

Defters didn't count ethnicity

There's nothing to rephrase here. The Ottoman defters didn't gather information about ethnicity in any way, shape or form. Anyone who cites a defter and claims that the Ottoman scribes have collected information about ethnicity in the document is deeply into WP:FRINGE.--Maleschreiber (talk) 22:36, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

Population

Since September, several accounts from sr wiki have tried to change the overall numbers of Kosovo Serbs. We know that about 95,000 Serbs are in Kosovo (Cocozelli, 2016) and that about 6,000 (2015) live in Montenegro. The figures of 2015 can't be replaced with sources which discuss how many Serbs from Kosovo were in Montenegro in 2005. They're WP:OUTDATED. The overall number of Serbs from Kosovo was ~200,000 before the war. Many were displaced in Serbia after the war and over half of them returned in the next years. There aren't 200,000 Kosovo Serb IDPs in Serbia - there were a total of 200,000 IDPs (including Romani people) in the first years after the war, but that is not the case now. I'm not familiar with what media discuss in Serbia and what the general perception about the Kosovo Serbs is, but a figure of 200,000 Kosovo Serb IDPs is not close to an objective situation in any way, shape or form and is not something which bibliography discusses.--Maleschreiber (talk) 22:00, 16 February 2021 (UTC)

Radević (2005) - already discussed in the article - was transferred again to the infobox as: 18,047 Kosovo Serbs in Montenegro (2005) She writes: Crna Gora je pružila (ili pruža) utočište za 18.047 interno raseljenih osoba s Kosova od kojih je većina izbjegla 1999., a manji broj njih 2000. (Izvještaj o registraciji raseljenih lica..., 2003). Među interno raseljenima trećina su Romi, a najviše ih je smješteno u romskim naseljima. [Montenegro has provided (or is providing) asylum to 18,047 IDPs from Kosovo, most of whom fled in 1999, and a smaller number in 2000 (Report on the Registration of IDPs, 2003). One third of the IDPS are Roma, and most of them are located in Roma settlements Radević discusses the total number of IDPs from Kosovo in Montenegro in 2003. 1/3 are Roma, 2/3 Kosovo Serbs. The article discusses that in 2003 Kosovo Serbs in Montenegro were c. 12,000. As of 2015 (infobox figure): Estimates suggest that over 6,600 Kosovo Serbs still live in Montenegro, over 15 years after the conflict ended. The majority of them still live in temporary refugee settlements without personal identity documents.--Maleschreiber (talk) 04:15, 20 February 2021 (UTC)

• You seem to have several wrong info. Check this document out. Sadkσ (talk is cheap) 23:35, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

The specific claims of Serbia are discussed at a specific section. They can't be presented in wikivoice at the infobox. Thank you. --Maleschreiber (talk) 00:19, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

Side comment: There were ca. 200,000 Serbs in Kosovo before 1999. There are about 100,000 Serbs in Kosovo today. Serbia's claim - a country whose population every three years drops by 100k - about 200,000 Serbs from Kosovo in Serbia today isn't plausible. We compare and contrast sources and - with the exception of some belief systems - every POV has a place in the article. The POV of the state of Serbia is discussed at a specific section, but it can't be discussed in wikivoice.--Maleschreiber (talk) 00:35, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

You have provided no sources for your claims and the rest is WP:OR. Also, do not remove the picture from the infobox.

All countries in the Balkans are facing a drop in the population, and Serbia is doing great compared to some of the neighbouring (EU) countries. The population of the disputed territory of Kosovo is getting older, on average, more and more every year, that is a fact which can be easily sourced. The population boom is a relict of the past. Sadkσ (talk is cheap) 02:24, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

I don't know what Serbian media discuss about the demographic development of Serbia, but it's not "great" compared to any EU or Balkan country. The fact that the Serbian public is subjected to a very different narrative than what is actually happening might have something to do with freedom of speech in Serbian media. The same problems are faced by all people in the Balkans who are regularly bombarded with media narratives about how "great" they're doing compared to everyone else. Wikipedia is independent and its bibliography should be RS and NPOV. If it's not NPOV, it cannot be discussed in wikivoice. The specific claims of the government of Serbia are discussed for what they are at a specific section. The infobox puts forward commonly accepted information. There were 215,000 IDPs (Serbs, Roma etc.) in Serbia in 2002. 20 years later, Serbia's population has dropped by 600k and at least a substantial portion of the IDPs has managed to return to their homes - otherwise there wouldn't be 90-100k Serbs in Kosovo. Serbia still claims that there are 200,000 IDPs from Kosovo in Serbia. It's not plausible. Now, the specific position of the Serbian government is discussed in the article, but it will be removed from the inbobox. It wasn't in the WP:STABLE version, so if its inclusion becomes the subject of edit-warring, the article will be tagged to inform the readers that what they're reading in wikivoice is actually the position of the government of Serbia.--Maleschreiber (talk) 18:49, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

Maybe. Their medias do discuss the issue and SANU is publishing academic works on the subject, there is even a Ministry and other gov. organisations which are taking care of it, even though that it a wider trend which may be only halted, in my book. The majority of younger population wants to live Serbia (Kosovo*)/BiH/Croatia/NM/Bulgaria etc. I'm not sure about MNE.

Stable has nothing to do with it as the article is expanding and the sources are reliable. Majority of the people did not return to the territory of Kosovo, that claim is the only absurd thing in the whole discussion, the document I provided above is covering that issue as well.

Politika and RTV are as good as it gets for Serbian medias. You may open a topic to prove that's not the case, and no, you obviously have no consensus for any move which aims to remove reliable sources. Sadkσ (talk is cheap) 19:45, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

They are reliable sources for what they are. They reliably report the official position of the Serbian government, but they can't be discussed in wikivoice because the official position of the Serbian government is not NPOV. The number of IDPs - regardless of the portion which has returned to Kosovo - cannot have remained the same for 20 years. Allen, Richard. "Support for IDPs in Serbia Summary Report and Proposals" (PDF). UNHCR. writes: Officially, there are 203,140 persons displaced from Kosovo and still living in Serbia. This data comes from the registration of IDPs in 2000 and following subsequent movements of people out of Kosovo. There has been no re-registration exercise, but the total number of registered people is adjusted annually to reflect population movements and demographic changes. While the reliability of registration data can be questioned, it remains the sole source of official data.--Maleschreiber (talk) 03:03, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

No. The country which is the host of the IDP sure knows their number and is credible for giving the information. Who else?! This information should stay. If you have other info. we can make a range - from the lowest to the highest number. Having no information in the infobox is not acceptable. Sadkσ (talk is cheap) 11:53, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

We compare and contrast sources. If they're state-sponsored, it doesn't make them more credible if independent sources criticize them. I read more carefully the RTV/Politika article. It's the same article, so I don't know why every revert summary claims that they're two different sources. And they don't discuss the number of Kosovo Serbs, but the total number of IDPs from Kosovo: Prema najnovijim podacima, u Srbiji, ne računajući teritoriju Kosova i Metohije, živi 199.584 interno raseljenih lica sa KiM od čega su 68.514 lica, odnosno 16.644 porodice, u stanju potrebe - nemaju odgovarajuće stambeno rešenje i adekvatne prihode kojim bi mogli sebi takvo rešenje da obezbede. The figure will be removed from the infobox and this time there will be admin oversight if revert only activity follows.--Maleschreiber (talk) 12:02, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

The presented quote directly contradicts this diff. Interesting.

Yes and we do not just remove the reliable sources. Politika, the oldest newspapers still in circulation in the Balkans, is state-sponsored? Ha. Let's see sources for that interesting statement.

And what seems to be the problem with that information in the infobox? Ktrimi made edits to make it more NPOV, which is appreciated.

Of course, please, invite uninvolved editors and admins. and try to explain removal of figure credited to a reliable sources and constant circles of WP:NOTHERE and WP:IDONTLIKEIT (mixed with WP:OR) + insisting to remove any figure of Kosovo Serbs living in Serbia from the infobox, which is mindboggling and unconstructive. Sadkσ (talk is cheap) 14:04, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

Infobox changes

Anyone who wants to make contested changes, should make sure they have consensus here. To avoid any potential edit war, especially on topics that have continous edit warring. Ktrimi991 (talk) 20:46, 30 March 2021 (UTC)

• Agree. The WP:STABLE is the result of a compromise which involved allowing very dubious information at the infobox on the basis that readers will be informed at the infobox about the validity of these figures. If the context of the figures is removed, then the figures will be removed too.--Maleschreiber (talk) 20:57, 30 March 2021 (UTC)

There's no such thing as "stable" when these changes were only recently made and this isn't a GA or anything like that. My edit made the country flags, names and population figures aligned like they're supposed to be in an infobox. The revert does the opposite. It's clear which version is better and I can't think of any good reason why anyone would object to such a minor change. --Griboski (talk) 21:46, 30 March 2021 (UTC)

Indeed, claims of "stable version" while edit-warring are usually done in bad faith, so as to prevent changes that an editor (or group of editors) finds undesirable from entering an article. Quoting from WP:STABLE It is important to note that outside of the limited administrative context, a "stable version" is an informal concept that carries no weight whatsoever, and it should never be invoked as an argument in a content dispute. Maintaining a stable version is, by itself, not a valid reason to revert or dispute edits, and should never be used as a justification to edit war. Stable versions are not superior or preferred to disputed edits in any way, boldly making changes to articles is encouraged as a matter of policy, and obstructing good faith edits for the sake of preserving "stable" content is disruptive. Editors involved in content disputes or edit wars should focus on resolving the dispute, rather than preserving the stable version, and the decision to temporarily preserve the stable version for the purposes of deescalating a dispute may only be made by an uninvolved administrator. I have noticed that there are some editors in this topic area who routinely invoke WP:STABLE to prevent any undesirable changes from entering articles. This occurs frequently enough and has gone on long enough that administrative attention may be long overdue. Khirurg (talk) 04:02, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

• The note version simply works better and it is more elegant. This is exactly what notes are meant for. Elserbio00 (talk) 15:12, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

No, that highly reduces the visibilty of info that makes the infobox be in line with NPOV. The other way for you is to remove the figures from the infobox and present them in the lede. Ktrimi991 (talk) 15:34, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

These are questionable and highly disputed figures. The only way for them to be displayed on the infobox was achieved via a consensus which involved the explanation about their source to be displayed in the same space. Griboski's proposed changes are strongly contested. Now, if some editors want them to be included they can file their proposed edits to WP:RFC and have a wider discussion.--Maleschreiber (talk) 16:20, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

@Khirurg Exactly. These tactics are disruptive. And this is all over a rather minor issue. I did not participate in the discussion on whether or not to include the population info from Serbia in the infobox and I don't feel strongly one way or another about it. My only concern was a cosmetic one; so that the infobox layout wasn't wonky. All the information is still there, just some of it is attached as a note.

Anyway, I agree that the 200,000 figure seems improbable. That's the number put forth by the Serbian government and has remained largely unchanged since the end of the war. It doesn't make sense given that around half of Kosovo Serbs have returned to Kosovo since. The number also includes Roma, Ashkali and other minorities, not just Serbs but this article is about Kosovo Serbs. We should use independent/third-party sources. According to the U.N. in 2012 there were 97,286 displaced persons from Kosovo, 88,000 in 2016 and 68,514 in 2019. --Griboski (talk) 18:10, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

The figure of 68,514 total IDPs in Serbia regardless of ethnic origin is what I put forward and was contested in the previous discussion. The explanation was added specifically as a marker for the 200k figure. If we can agree that we'll replace 200k with 68k in total in Serbia and update the Montenegro figures, I think that we can create a less stuffed infobox.--Maleschreiber (talk) 18:42, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

I'd be okay with that, except there's still a discrepancy in the figures. The lead states that the Kosovo Serb population in 1999 was 226,000 based on this source. But the source gives a table of displaced persons by ethnic origin of which there were 226,000 Serbs. It's not the total number of Kosovo Serbs since not all of them fled after the war. According to this organization it was closer to 300,000 and as of 2013, 146,000 were in Kosovo. More recently, many RS state that around 120,000 Serbs live in Kosovo. 1 2 3 4 5 This is higher than the 95,962 from Cocozelli in the infobox, which is from 2011. But assuming we take the figure of 226,000 and use the 95,962 from Kosovo, 68,514 IDPs from Serbia and 6,600 from Montenegro, there's still approximately around ~50,000 Serbs of Kosovo origin unaccounted for. The infobox should have the most recent and reliable data, which would be ~120,000 in Kosovo and 68,514 IDPs in Serbia. I'd leave out Montenegro since the 135 IDPs from 2019 are not a significant population. --Griboski (talk) 20:17, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

~120,000 in Kosovo and ~68,000 in Serbia seems to be reasonable. Ktrimi991 (talk) 20:54, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

The 146,000 figure is about the self-reported total number of registered citizens in municipalities in the ECMI report. The figures Cocozelli uses are from the 2015 registration. In 2011, North Kosovo and a part of Serbs in the rest of Kosovo boycotted the census. The 95k figure is the most recent one we have. Compare Leposavic between 2013 and 2021. The commune reported 22k registered citizens (inhabitants and non-inhabitants) in 2013. In 2015, via a model of registration and self-reported figures, the registered population dropped. In 2021 it had 12 482 eligible voters (excluding minors) in the total of registered citizens. Zubin Potok reported almost 14k registered citizens in 2013, but its total number of eligible voters (excluding minors) was 6321 in 2021. The same revisions exist for Albanian settlements too. Population figures are dropping everywhere in the Balkans. Kosovo will have its census in late 2021 or early 2022 and we'll be able to update the figures.--Maleschreiber (talk) 23:33, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

I don't have access to the Cocozelli passage (Ramet & Valenta book) but the snippet that I was able to get from p.267 reads: "Nearly 75 percent of the 95,962 Serbs which the OSCE estimated to be in Kosovo as of 2014 lived in the northern municipalities bordering on Serbia." So he's using the OSCE estimate and not from 2015 but 2014. The Minority Rights Group also uses OSCE estimates from 2010 to 2013. Your deductions might very well be correct but it borders on OR. None of these sources specify exactly how they got their data and I'm not sure how we are supposed to tell which one is more reliable. Surely there are newer estimates than from 2014. If a reliable source says there are approximately X number of Kosovo Serbs in Kosovo then we should be able to use them, and I provided several above. The U.S. Congress research branch report from 2021 (p.5) cites Tim Judah and Florian Bieber for its 120,000 figure. --Griboski (talk) 02:33, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

The most recent publication the Congressional Report links to about Kosovo Serb demographics is Kosovo's demographic destiny looks eerily familiar (November 2019). Tim Judah writes: Today the websites for the four predominantly Serb-populated northern municipalities put their total population at 70,430 but if we exclude students, especially from other parts of Serbia, this number may be exaggerated for political reasons. (..) School enrolment and Serbian Orthodox Church figures point to a resident Kosovo Serb population of about 100,000, with about 40 per cent living in the north and the rest in the south. (..) In the aftermath of the war in 1999, when Serbs fled ethnic cleansing, Serbian officials claimed that around 220,000 Serbs had come to Serbia, which would mean more than actually lived there, according to the 1991 census in which Serbs and Montenegrins participated and which recorded 215,346 of them plus 42,806 Roma, many of whom also suffered at that time. In fact, close analysis by the European Stability Initiative think tank found that the true figure of those who had fled was about 65,000. At the time, UN agencies used Serbian figures, giving them credibility. Today, Kosovo’s Serb population is ageing fast and shrinking. There are not enough job opportunities for the general population and hence even fewer for Kosovo Serbs, a large proportion of whom do not speak Albanian. These are the figures I have been putting forward all along.--Maleschreiber (talk) 19:43, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

Judah also writes: "School enrolment and Serbian Orthodox Church figures point to a resident Kosovo Serb population of about 100,000, with about 40 per cent living in the north and the rest in the south." Given that all the sources here essentially provide estimates of around 100K, for the sake of compromise I would be fine with a circa 100,000 in Kosovo and 68,514 IDPs in Serbia for the infobox, if no one objects. The numbers can be updated with the next census. --Griboski (talk) 22:57, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

That sounds very reasonable to me. Khirurg (talk) 03:30, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

• Regarding the stable version in the edit summary, it seems that Khirurg (eg [4][5][6][7][8]) and Griboski (eg [9][10][11]) do not practice what they preach. Ktrimi991 (talk) 21:52, 31 March 2021 (UTC)
  • I'm not particularly interested in discussing anything with you, but I wasn't aware of that stipulation in WP:STABLE until this dispute. Anyway, now that I have pointed it out, I do expect to not see any more misuse of "WP:STABLE" as an excuse for edit-warring by anyone, anymore. Khirurg (talk) 03:30, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

I am still adapting to policies and guidelines. Needless to say that off-topic accusations aren't constructive, though linking to random out-of-context diffs feels cheap. We can all learn and do better. --Griboski (talk) 04:50, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

• I'm adding the new consensus: ca. 100k in Kosovo and ca. 86k in Serbia.--Maleschreiber (talk) 20:52, 2 April 2021 (UTC)