Talk:Charles Hoskinson

Note

- An article with a same name deleted in 2006 Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Charles Hoskinson but it seems it was not about Charles Hoskinson co-founder of Ethereum. The Admin who deleted that page is not active anymore. Spada II ♪♫ (talk) 10:52, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

Notability

What notability guideline does Hoskinson pass? Most of his press attention is not about him as a person but about Cardano, which was deleted at AFD - this article shouldn't be a stealth recreation of that. It's not clear he's individually noteworthy for his work on Ethereum.

Is there press coverage sufficient to write a biography from, or is most of it press articles mentioning him because of a project already deleted for not passing notability guidelines?

WP:GNG would be very much a stretch for Hoskinson personally. Is there some more specific notability guideline Hoskinson clearly passes? Else the notability tag should be restored - David Gerard (talk) 18:04, 17 April 2020 (UTC)

-He is the co founder of Ethereum and a simple google search brings lots of hits, he is also still working on Ethereum classic and as you can see lots of reliable sources provided for a short article! Please do not remove the source as you did for bloomberg! Cardano was not written well with reliable sources it does not mean the subject is not notable that's why it turned to a draft. when an article is deleted once it can comeback. All the best Spada II ♪♫ (talk) 05:48, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

He's been referenced in The New York Times, The New Yorker, The Scotsman, is an advisor for the Lifeboat Foundation (I didn't add that source, but may in the future), so it's fair to say he is a notable figure with perhaps more media coverage than some people who already have their own Wikipedia pages. I have added some references and could add more, but I don't want to clutter the article too much. I will be adding solid references on occasion as I find them. These are easy to find and are all over the internet - it just takes some work to put them together. I also agree that, with this foundation in place, some openness to other sources is merited so long as the overall quality remains intact. Josemolero (talk) 07:52, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

I've also just fished out coverage of Hoskinson in the international press in which he is given lengthy, detailed articles regarding his technological and financial vision. I will see how I can incorporate these into this article. These are non-crypto publications such as Nikkei interested in blockchain developments. Josemolero (talk) 08:39, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

He is a key figure in decentralized finance. And cofounder of two crypto currencies with an aggregate market cap of a quarter trillion USD. Deleting would be ludicrous. It's not even worth discussing any more. Kwinzman (talk) 14:44, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

Bloomberg

I think Bloomberg News pass WP:RS. can you show me a discussion that admins or editors think otherwise? I have provided another source for that content, so It can stay. Please do not remove it again. you can ask an admin if its reliable or not. Spada II ♪♫ (talk) 06:04, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

You're edit-warring in a link to the "Are you a robot?" page, not to an actual reference. You don't appear to be bothering to look at the links you're edit-warring in - David Gerard (talk) 07:16, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

-I have read it many times written by Camila Russo and just below "Read more on the hack of CoinDash’s ICO" it says "Hoskinson joined the ethereum founding team in late 2013 and left in June 2014" and bloomberg is reliable according to WP:RS/P. Spada II ♪♫ (talk) 09:02, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

The link literally goes to a captcha and doesn't go past it. Have you even looked at the link you're edit-warring in? - David Gerard (talk) 22:03, 20 April 2020 (UTC)

- I think its a security for the site. solve it then you see the article. Spada II ♪♫ (talk) 05:45, 21 April 2020 (UTC)

You need to link the reference, not a mystery game. I clicked in the box and it didn't take me to the article. If you have a reference link, put in the actual link, not a captcha page. This is a case of "competence is required" - David Gerard (talk) 14:44, 21 April 2020 (UTC)

- I'm not responsible for Bloomberg site security, its a direct link, Do not Remove that! Not my problem if you dont know about site securities. Spada II ♪♫ (talk) 16:40, 21 April 2020 (UTC)

It literally doesn't work or go to an article. Please don't restore it without the actual link to an article supporting your claim, because this one literally doesn't. You're not showing sufficient competence in editing - David Gerard (talk) 18:13, 21 April 2020 (UTC)

- It works perfectly. just click on "I'm not a robot" and see the article. Spada II ♪♫ (talk) 06:17, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

I did, and it does not. Could you please link the actual aritcle, if any - David Gerard (talk) 06:30, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

-here is the link: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-07-18/ethereum-co-founder-says-crypto-coin-market-is-ticking-time-bomb I re-entered the link manualy to solve the possible problem. Spada II ♪♫ (talk) 07:40, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

The Bloomberg article makes a nice addition to this article. Thanks! Josemolero (talk) 07:58, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

Sources

I don’t understand why this was deleted. I am aware that cryptocurrency websites are to be used carefully, but I picked what seemed to be the two most prominent websites and I do not see that this event is controversial. The donation simply reinforces that Hoskinson is forming links with universities. The crypto websites are used as references on dozens of other pages. Also, Coindesk has a Wikipedia entry; if there is reason to doubt the website, it should be made clear in its entry. The university and local radio station sources I have added also have Wikipedia entries. A Google search ("charles Hoskinson" + "university of wyoming" + "$500,000") produces 3,450 results, though with a lot of republishing. If anyone does remove this part of the entry, please do not reintroduce the spelling error again.

WP:RSP#CoinDesk, and all other crypto sources are as bad or worse. I mean, at least CoinDesk isn't literally pay-for-play. Also, the Daily Mail has a Wikipedia article, but still isn't an acceptable source, not clear why that would make any difference - David Gerard (talk) 23:06, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

Reply to Gerard

Indeed, the Daily Mail has a Wikipedia article, but it makes clear the paper can be an unreliable source: ‘The Daily Mail has been widely criticised for its unreliability, as well as printing of sensationalist and inaccurate scare stories of science and medical research, and for copyright violations.’ If you are saying Coindesk is similarly unreliable, and deleting material related to it because of this opinion, you should give your referenced proof on the Coindesk page, as contributors have done for the Daily Mail. — Preceding unsigned comment added by GreyStar456 (talk • contribs) 13:05, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

Removal of Category "People associated with cryptocurrency "

@Grayfell: - could we revert this category? Charles Hoskinson is clearly and overwhelmingly an individual who is "associated with cryptocurrency". He set up 2 projects working on cryptocurrencies... Ethereum and Cardano. B_Maximus (talk) 18:44, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

No, this isn't how categories are intended to work. This article is already included in Category:People associated with cryptocurrency through a WP:DIFFUSE category, and I do not think a new category for Cardano would be appropriate. I know other pages are categorized differently, but this is not a valid justification to muck-up categories here at this article to match. Pinging me to request an edit over this kind minutia is very odd, to put it mildly. Continue to discuss this if absolutely necessary, but don't ping me again over such a trivial request. Grayfell (talk) 20:36, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

I wasn't the one who removed the tag - my excuses and sincere apologies for wasting 5 seconds of your time. It only seemed appropriate seeing as Vitalik Buterin, also founder of Ethereum, is placed in even more categories. I likewise think your reasoning doesn't make sense so we at least seem to agree we are mutually odd. Charles Hoskinson is overwhelmingly associated with cryptocurrency - to say otherwise is nonsensical, he has devoted his life, company and money to this topic that is all. B_Maximus (talk) 22:05, 6 December 2020 (UTC)

@Grayfell: Apologies for adding them again - I see now what you mean, I missed it was already listed - I'm an idiot! BTW the Ted talk isn't promotional.. it was prior to cardano and is a generic talk about blockchain. Bob (talk) 21:22, 15 February 2021 (UTC)

Unlike TED Talks, TEDx is indiscriminate by design. Many encyclopedically significant people have given talks, written blogs, etc. We cannot include all of them, so including arbitrarily chosen samples of his work is promoting him, even if it is not promoting his company. WP:NOTADVERTISING also covers public relations. If this one event is significant, a reliable source should be used to explain to readers why it is significant. Grayfell (talk) 21:50, 15 February 2021 (UTC)

Ah alright, good to know, thanks for the explanation - still a bit new to what is/isn't allowed! :) Bob (talk) 22:20, 15 February 2021 (UTC)

Image

@IOHKwriter: Would it be possible to upload an image here from: https://iohk.io/en/team/charles-hoskinson ? OTRS permissions problem... B_Maximus (talk) 22:20, 6 December 2020 (UTC)

Belatedly, the original source for the current image does not indicate an appropriate license. It appears that User:FlippyFlink Uploaded to flickr and then uploaded from there to Commons. This may have been "flickr-washed". I have flagged it, and its multiple derivative images, for deletion at Commons. Grayfell (talk) 22:17, 16 February 2021 (UTC)

For convenience, here is the discussion: Commons:Commons:Deletion requests/File:Charles Hoskinson profile color no background.png

Grayfell (talk) 22:11, 17 February 2021 (UTC)

Grayfell this is so petty. Come on seriously? Bob (talk) 20:35, 18 February 2021 (UTC)

I explained the problem at Commons:Commons:Deletion requests/File:Charles Hoskinson profile color no background.png. Wikipedia is not a platform for hagiography, and copyvio is a serious issue. Your opinion that this is petty doesn't change that, and demonstrating that you are WP:HERE by editing any other topic at all would go a long way towards showing good faith. Grayfell (talk) 20:56, 18 February 2021 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Charles Hoskinson profile color no background.png

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 04:44, 18 February 2021 (UTC)

Mathematician

In the pedantic sense, Hoskinson is a mathematician. However, in a modern context, a "mathematician" is almost always used to describe someone with a graduate-level education in mathematics or a closely aligned field, typically someone who's been published. I don't see any indication that Hoskinson has these credentials.

These are the two sources which are used to describe Hoskinson as a mathematician:

• https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/the-mathematicians-defense-of

As part of our Bitcoin interview series, here’s Charles Hoskinson, a Colorado-based technology entrepreneur and mathematician who attended the University of Colorado, Boulder, to study analytic number theory in graduate school before moving into cryptography and social network theory. He describes his current focus as “evangelism and education for Bitcoin and fully homomorphic encryption schemes.”

It goes on to quote Hoskinson himself as saying I’m a cryptographer and a mathematician. For various reasons, someone's description of themselves is not particularly useful for this. In practice, interviews are typically seen as weaker sources anyway, since they often have primary issues.

• https://moneyweek.com/investments/alternative-finance/bitcoin/602930/cardano-cryptocurrency-meteoric-rise

Touted as the “next big thing” after Ethereum, the Cardano blockchain can be used to build smart contracts, protocols and decentralised applications. It was co-founded by mathematician Charles Hoskinson and by former Ethereum co-worker Jeremy Wood, to build a more scalable and secure blockchain network, two things Hoskinson believes Ethereum will find difficult to fully achieve.

This is the only relevant mention I see.

The section on Hoskinson's education is vague. It implies, but doesn't directly say, that Hoskinson dropped-out, which matches other sources I have seen. Speaker profiles are very weak sources though, since they are almost always both extremely brief, and provided by the person themselves (or their PR team). For providing the name of a school this is sufficient, but for pretty much anything beyond very basic, non-controversial details, this source is too weak.

Does Hoskinson meet WP:CATDEF as a mathematician? By that I don't mean is he a person who does mathematics in the basic sense, but rather, is this treated as a defining profession similar to his status as an entrepreneur? If this isn't his profession, and apparently never has been, then it shouldn't be in the first sentence. Grayfell (talk) 21:52, 29 March 2021 (UTC)