User talk:Durova

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Peter Dodge

Maybe you are confused? Peter is not an administrator. He would be better described as a mediator or mentor in the Ilena dispute. David D. (Talk) 22:52, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Will refactor, thanks. Durova^Charge 22:55, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Thank you...

... for this. A voice of sanity! I was starting to feel like I was taking crazy pills. Without digging into the details of this feud, it's high time some boundaries were set. Thanks for doing so. MastCell 23:23, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Concur: I have withheld from commenting due to the unfortunate fact that my attempt[1] was not well received[2], and I did not wish to inflame the situation. I strongly support your efforts and actions, and should you wish for assistance of any kind please let me know if I could be of any help to you. KillerChihuahua^?!? 16:02, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for the offer. There is something that would help. I'm going to encourage Ilena to join the formal mentorship program at WP:ADOPT because I honestly think the informal mentorship is not serving her well. I anticipate some resistance to that recommendation and it would be useful if other voices joined with my own - that is if you agree with me. Durova^Charge! 16:13, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

I find that an excellent suggestion; this is precisely the type of situation I feel ADOPT can help with. Ilena will need to realise that her adoptor is there to help her understand Wiki-policies and how to work within the system, not get her own way, which may be problematic. I suggest you encourage her to choose an administrator or other long-standing, experienced editor; otherwise it may cause more problems than it solves (blind leading the blind). It will take perserverance and patience, as well as considerable knowledge of Wikipedia's RULES. I will certainly add my voice to yours, if you feel it will help - and I will withdraw as soon as it appears I am aggravating the situation, as that will accomplish nothing. KillerChihuahua^?!? 16:21, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

I've posted the recommendation and made it as easy for her as possible. Durova^Charge! 16:39, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Bravo

For your comment at the SMH blog. Well said. · j e r s y k o talk · 02:11, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Thank you. :) Durova^Charge 02:19, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Your User page

One of the things I love about WIkipedia is reading people's user pages, because I learn so many intersting things. Yours is great. I wonder if this woman was in the Russian history books for many years. For a long time, women were absent from US history books. That has slowly changed. You have inspired me. Maybe I will consider Myra Bradwell (first woman lawyer in the US) or something like that ....I don't know who the first woman officer was in the US army. Something I will have to investigate.Jance 05:35, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Thank you. To estimate by commemorative artistic works, she appears to have been well known in Russia consistently rather than someone who was forgotten and revived. Her aristocratic heritage doesn't appear to have worked against her during the Soviet era. If she inspires you to create a new article, wonderful. Have a look at User:Durova/Did you know? for tips on how to get it onto Wikipedia's main page. If your effort makes the cut at Did you know? then drop me a line I'll give you a barnstar. Cheers, Durova^Charge! 05:55, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

AN/I comments on my article cleanups and AfD submissions

Thanks for your attention to the problem I was having. I have come to accept that the other editor will continue to dance and tightrope semantics in order to continue to act the victim unless there is nobody else to play their game. So, I am removing myself from the situation and won't be responding to their request to strike anything nor return to defend my words/actions. I leave it entirely to your own discretion as to whether you want to address them further, but at this point it's just more likely that I'll never need to interact with them again if I just go on my way on this one. Thanks again for your help in the situation. ju66l3r 08:52, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Disengaging is a very wise move here. In the interests of WP:AGF I'll suppose this has inadvertently touched on a very raw nerve. Occasionally - and more in real life than Wikipedia - I have seen some neutral statement or action touch off a very hot response from a person whom I knew was normally rational and cordial and who happened to have been immediate family to one or more Holocaust survivors. Polite distance is the best course when that happens. Regards, Durova^Charge! 14:45, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Thank you

Thank you very much for the Barnstar! I am honored. --Hu12 19:02, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for earning it. That was a lot of hard work I'm sure. Durova^Charge! 19:41, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Help!

I do appreciate your attempts to defend me against Peter's very unfair and counterproductive dealings with me. I'm already stressed enough, without being treated like a criminal by the attorney of the one who has (figuratively) been "raping" me. That's how it must feel. I pity rape victims who are treated the way Peter is treating me. Isn't there anything that can be done to get him to act reasonably, instead of him constantly defending her abhorrent actions and thereby facilitating them, thus becoming an "accessory to the crime" (I think that is basically the legal parallel to what he's doing here.)?

Please get him to stop. You are an admin and can block him, or at least give him a severe warning for misconduct and "abetting a crime." I am not the one on trial. Ilena is, yet he keeps censoring me and making me jump through hoops. He's not even an admin, so I don't even have to do anything he says, but in an exercise of good faith I am bending over backwards to resolve this situation in a just manner, which is not done by ignoring and allowing her actions, but to get her to stop it and get her to provide documentation for her accusations. -- Fyslee 21:26, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Actually I was composing a query to his user page when your message posted here. I really thought yesterday that when I posted the diff of her change to your heading with my block notice that he would change his mind about WP:AGF. There's some chance he may not have seen the diff she produced on your page which demonstrates she does have the technical skill and chooses not to use it. So I was going through your userpage history to find that edit of hers. If he doesn't budge then I recommend you open a user conduct RFC on Peter. You'd be a better person than I to open it. I've really never seen a mentor act in this way before.

Regardless, I'm the editor the community entrusted with the sysop tools. I've informed Peter and Ilena of their options if they think I act improperly. They've chosen not to use those options so - though I shy away from forceful terms - these aggressive interpretations look like smoke and mirrors. Don't be intimidated. You're in a hostile environment there so my candid advice is that if I say you've no need to respond to something, or to a class of similar somethings, don't offer any grist for their mills. My other main suggestion is to be cautious regarding WP:CIVIL. If you follow the letter and spirit of all site policies then one of two things will happen:

1. Ilena will discern genuine good faith and respond in kind.
2. Ilena will continue to be unreasonable, in which case a very one-sided situation is easy to resolve administratively.

What often happens in this type of situation is that the primary aggressor lays an abundance of bait. It's a test of character to the parties being baited. I'm active on this matter now so let me do what I do best. Look up the diffs I asked you to post to Ilena's page, then read up on WP:RFC in case my outreach to Peter doesn't succeed. Contact me by e-mail if you need to communicate anything confidential, and thank you for your cooperation and patience. Durova^Charge! 21:51, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Okay, I'll try to supply the diffs, although it seems like just what Peter has been demanding. You mention it a couple times at least, so which single diff of mine (so I can find the precise time and original wording) needs to have diffs provided as evidence. -- Fyslee 22:45, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

To give this a quick response, the first two posts of that thread offer links that would be better converted to diffs and ask the reader to check your edit history. Well, check the edit history yourself and produce a few diffs to back it up. Also in posts where you claim you retracted something, show that you actually did. And where you claim Ilena did something, give the diff that she did. I'm afraid I can't take this casually right now and since her actions have compelled me to set the bar high on her fairness requires it high for you as well. Otherwise I could be accused of a double standard.

I've extended her block and posted to WP:AN as mentioned below. If it becomes necessary I can also page protect her user talk. Let me know if you want the links and edit history that disclose your real world name deleted. I can get those things out of the page history. Durova^Charge! 23:08, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

I would appreciate it if the disclosures of my real world name were deleted. She knows perfectly well that her use of my name on Wikipedia means that search engines will promote her agenda against me and I will be even more exposed to hateful attacks by others because of it. -- Fyslee 05:28, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

And I followed up on this at Fyslee's user talk when I read it, but Peter's userpage indicates he's grieving a loss in the family that happened two days ago. Suggested holding off on RFC in light of that. Durova^Charge! 01:31, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

I have read your message and have no intention anyway of starting an RfC, although if someone else started one I might participate. I find the usual official methods for dealing with issues here (RfM, RfC, etc. so cumbersome and time consuming that I usually avoid them and try to deal with the person on my own talk page or other places they are active. -- Fyslee 05:28, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Could you take a look...

... at User talk:Ilena? She's posted a link to an off-wiki attack page she's generated against Fyslee. The link was removed by Ronz, but it looks like both a pretty clear violation of WP:NPA ("Posting a link to an external source that fits the commonly accepted threshold for a personal attack") by a blocked user, as well as discouraging evidence of a failure to learn from the situation. MastCell 22:14, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

I've extended the block to one week and posted to WP:AN. Durova^Charge! 22:58, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Names

Wikipedia:List of Wikipedians by number of edits makes happy reading. Most of the massive contributors are already admins, have been admins, do not want to be admins, have left, have block logs as long as your arm, and so on. If you're looking for names to whisper in the right ears (sorry, I forgot, TINC), here are a few. I have not closely examined them, but they seem like people who could do the job without too much drama:

• ais523 (talk • contribs • count) 4k edits, lots of wiki/wiki talk.
• Persian Poet Gal (talk • contribs • count) 10k edits, fair amount of wiki/wiki talk.
• Ned Scott (talk • contribs • count) 17k edits, loads of wiki/wiki talk; presently involved in the Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Naming Conventions fiasco, but it looks like Ned will be exonerated. Would need to wait until the dust settled there. His behaviour during the RFAR impressed me, even if he was a little bit naughty at times during the great TV episode naming guide war.
• CharlotteWebb (talk • contribs • count) 8k edits, fair amount of wiki including some bold (and undisputed) not-strictly-by-the-WP:DPR-book AfD closes.

If I think of any others, I'll drop you a line. Keep up the great work, it's much appreciated among the toiling masses! Angus McLellan (Talk) 22:17, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Thank you very much. Cheers, Durova^Charge! 23:01, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Jim Shapiro

You are right; if Cal Worthington warrants an encyclopedia article, Shapiro probably does. I do not think either one does. But maybe Wikipedia does not have standards of notability and professionalism that I would expect of an encyclopedia. Thanks for weighing in.Jance 02:41, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

I followed up on the talk page. I think there's an advantage to this approach in that it gives the inclusionists a basis for keeping the article without pushing WP:BLP or its potential ramifications - and the basis exists without stretching precedent. Electrons are cheap. Personally I don't think I'll ever understand why Wikipedia has articles on elementary schools: an institution of learning where students need to take naps on rubber sheets doesn't do it for me. But they're in, they're staying in, and their existence doesn't harm me. I'll put my energies into sleuthing down sneaky vandals who actually damage the site. Respectfully, Durova^Charge! 02:53, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Request for investigation

About three weeks back, you replied to my request for investigation into the behaviour of an anon editor. Just in case that's not on your watchlist, I wanted to point out that he's back doing the same thing, making pro-British POV edits. Again, I want to stress that England is a fine country and I have nothing against the British, but this guy needs a wake-up call.--chris.lawson 22:51, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for the heads up. It might be a day before I have time to get on that. I appreciate your patience. Regards, Durova^Charge! 23:24, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

No worries. I'm going to be on a semi-wikibreak starting Sunday for about two months anyway.--chris.lawson 06:21, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

A personal request

As someone whose fairness I admire, can I ask you to take a look at the thread Wp:an/i#Mastcell_wikistalking, at AN/I? I think it could use a referee, if you have the time. MastCell 20:32, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

WP:RFI

Since I see you are active at WP:RFI, could I ask you to look at a request I filled recently? Unlike Ghirla, whose contributions to Wikipedia were immense, we have a much simpler case here: a user whose major contributions to Wiki are flaming and trying to defame much more active editors. -- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  20:37, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

24 hour block as requested. As an aside, since this happens to touch on Eastern Europe I wonder whether the editor will speculate about my nationality based on my username. Things like that have happened enough times before that I'm thinking of adding a few lines to my admin disclaimer. Best wishes, Durova^Charge! 21:24, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Now that was uncalled for! The user respectfully asked for more time to properly respond and he gets a block. That's not a fair treatment or justice or whatever you want to call it. It feels like sitting on someone's face ("Oh, you want a chance to defend yourself? Good, here's your block!") And the fact that he's busy and won't be around anyways is not an excuse for a block. He might as well deserve to be blocked, but not like this... in a rush and without any dignity and due care. Renata 22:02, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

I've reviewed the evidence and consider the block meritorious. Based on what the editor posted it appears unlikely to interfere with his actual editing. Respectfully, Durova^Charge! 22:06, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Oh, sorry another editor point this already here, nevertheless my statement is here. BTW, Durova if you intervene in this case are you also review and this material, because user:Piotrus stared to labeling "extremist" term all around and this issue also corresponds on Dr. Dan`s case in RFI. Could, you be so kind and advise on this issue too. Thanks, M.K. 22:15, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Replied on RFI talk page to RFI-related issues, and I will actually second the request for neutral comments on KG page. Such comments have deterred M.K from disrupting Armia Krajowa article, and I hope they will help cool him down again in this case :> -- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  23:03, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for the prompt action. Hopefully this will him give something to think about. PS. On the sidenote, yes, I have recently seen nationality speculations about you by Mr. Blass (I seem to be on his email list, which means in 'bad days' I get 5-10 emails from him... sigh). PS2. A good disclaimer is Wikipedia:Babel (languages) - and it's quite useful, too.-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  22:46, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Jim Shapiro & Your comment

Thank you for the input - and consideration of this article/issue. The version now that Tyrenius reverted to in an attempt to save the article, is mostly Sarah's version. I do not believe Sarah misrepresented any sources. All of the garbage that was there before misrepresented sources. I don't know that that editor will reinsert that content -- I believe he only did that to show "notability", when I challenged the article's inclusion. Without that to somehow tie the subject to something actually notable, such as the effect on ethics rules, all there is of note for this attorney is some scummy ads and records of one-year disciplinary actions. Sarah did about all that one legitimately could with the material she had to work with. And if that is sufficient notability for Wikipedia, then far be it from me to object. Jance 23:42, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Arbitration

Since Fyslee has refused mediation regarding the issues pertaining to himself and Ilena, I have opened a formal Request for Arbitration regarding the matter. You may wish to make a statement. You may do so here. Cheers, ✎ Peter M Dodge ( Talk to Me • Neutrality Project ) 01:22, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

I think the time for a formal complaint about Peter's involvment and lack of neutrality in this situation needs to be filed. He has improperly raised a faulty RfM that was unsuccessfully because of his own blunder, and now he has escalated conflicts here by raising an RfArb that I cannot possibly participate in in any proper manner. It is simply too time-consuming. It is now 03:10 AM here in Denmark and Peter is doing more damage to my stress levels than Ilena did! This is so unfair and unreasonable. Please get him to drop it and do what he can to de-escalate, rather than escalate. He is - all by himself - creating more controversy and wasting our time. Even a simple RfC, which would be proper, would be hard for me to deal with, but it would at least be fair, IF he did not raise it. He has a serious COI in the matter, especially since he so clearly often favorized and protected Ilena, even defending her and deleting my attempts to provide diffs in my defence. -- Fyslee 02:12, 21 January 2007 (UTC)