Talk:Discrimination against transgender men

Citations for Etymology

I had removed the citations for etymology previously as the source is the coiner of the term's blog- which is counted as an unreliable source. Wondering how best to remedy the situation as sourcing the blog would mean it is an 'unreliable source' - though it is the original source. I'm going to add it back in, though I am aware that the trans man who coined transandrophobia is in the middle of writing a book about it, so perhaps that can be cited once published. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Transandrosupport (talk • contribs) 20:21, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

See my most recent comment at Wikipedia:Teahouse#Advice on reliable sources; what you really need is a secondary source about the blog, rather than the blog itself. Cordless Larry (talk) 21:22, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

Need for secondary sources

Transandrosupport, you've written: "Other attitudes displayed towards transgender men and transmasculine people involve perceiving them as incapable of making their own decisions about their life and transition. This often stems from misogynistic attitudes that affect cis women similarly. Neurodivergent transmasculine people in a particular are singled out for this". This is cited to an essay by JK Rowling, but as far as I can tell, you're suggesting that Rowling is the one doing the singling out, so the source is serving as an example, not as something that verifies those three sentences. If you want to write that neurodivergent transmasculine people in particular are singled out for this, then you need a source that states that. Similarly, you've referenced a claim about Rowling and Shrier targeting trans men to Shrier. Unless Shrier writes something like "JK Rowling and I regularly target trans men", then you need a secondary source here. Rather than using references as examples of something you've observed (this is considered original research), you need to use them to cite sources that directly support the content of the article. Cordless Larry (talk) 15:58, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

To try to illustrate the issue here, imagine that famous people A, B and C make transphobic statements (primary sources). Newspaper Z (secondary source) then publishes an article, highlighting that several famous people have made transphobic statements. The Wikipedia article can include the claim that transphobic statements have often been made by famous people, referenced to the newspaper article (secondary source), or it can factually report what famous people A, B and C said (citing the primary sources), but it can't make that general claim about transphobic statements often being made by famous people without the newspaper (secondary) source. Cordless Larry (talk) 16:22, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

Title

I've looked, and the only reliable source I can find that uses the term transandrophobia is the Slate article already cited in the draft. Everything else is on social media. Given this, I'd suggest we consider an alternative name for the article, avoiding neologisms and going for something descriptive if necessary. Cordless Larry (talk) 16:05, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

@User:Cordless Larry that seems sensible, I do know the page on nonbinary issues is called 'prejudice against nonbinary people' so something like that? Vulture (a.k.a. Transandrosupport) (talk) 16:08, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

Would "Discrimination against transgender men" be appropriate in your view, Transandrosupport? Cordless Larry (talk) 16:18, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

@User:Cordless Larry that seems appropriate to me, though I'm not sure how you change a title- I'll have a see if I can figure it out Vulture (a.k.a. Transandrosupport) (talk) 16:36, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

That's OK - I'll move it now. Cordless Larry (talk) 16:48, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

Maybe initiate a merge for this?

Is there any reason this can't be covered in the trans man page? There isn't a discrimination against transgender women page, and there's plenty more to say about them. Someone will demand that it be created since one for trans men exists, but the trans woman, feminist views on transgender topics, TERF, and Blanchard's transsexualism typology pages cover so much about issues affecting trans women already. Nowearskirts (talk) 06:03, 2 August 2021 (UTC)