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Revision as of 00:36, 25 September 2021

Surrogate's Courthouse

Surrogate's Courthouse (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

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Nominator(s): Epicgenius (talk) 15:08, 15 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about a historic building in Manhattan, New York City, erected in the 1890s and 1900s. The courthouse building, originally the Hall of Records, contains dozens of detailed facade sculptures and a vault-like lobby. Like the neighboring Tweed Courthouse (an FA), the Surrogate's Courthouse was mired in controversy through its construction, especially after the original architect died. The term "horganizing and slatterifying" was used to criticize the new architects. Unlike its neighbor, the Surrogate's Courthouse didn't receive the same level of opposition upon its completion, and it's mostly been used as a surrogate's court for New York state, as well as a hall of records. It is a National Historic Landmark and a New York City landmark, and it continues to be used as a courthouse.

This page was promoted as a Good Article a year ago and was recently copyedited through the GOCE, for which I am very grateful. I think it's up to FA quality now, and I look forward to all comments and feedback. Epicgenius (talk) 15:08, 15 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

A couple of comments on the lead from Chidgk1

Suggest removing some detail from: "The building was renamed the Surrogate's Courthouse in 1962 and, over the years, has undergone few alterations. The National Register of Historic Places includes the Surrogate's Courthouse as a National Historic Landmark, and its facade and interior are both New York City designated landmarks."

to read

"Renamed the Surrogate's Courthouse in 1962, the building has been little altered over the years and is a National Historic Landmark."

But we non-Americans don't know what a Surrogate's Court is so I think adding just a few words on that to the lead would be interesting.

  • (Additional comment)

Additionally, if you liked this comment, or are looking for an article to review I have one at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates#Greenhouse_gas_emissions_by_Turkey Chidgk1 (talk) 13:52, 20 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support from Cas Liber

Taking a look now....

  • I'd link granite on first instance
  • In the Design section you have the word design(ed) in the first three sentences. Rejig and trim to remove one...maybe with something like, "The Surrogate's Courthouse was designed in the Beaux-Arts style by John Rochester Thomas initially; after his death in 1901, Arthur J. Horgan and Vincent J. Slattery completed the design/his work."

Otherwise seems ok in comprehensiveness and prose. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 05:15, 29 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Casliber: Thanks for the comments. I've done both of these. Epicgenius (talk) 20:47, 31 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support by Lee Vilenski

I'll begin a review of this article very soon! My reviews tend to focus on prose and MOS issues, especially on the lede, but I will also comment on anything that could be improved. I'll post up some comments below over the next couple days, which you should either respond to, or ask me questions on issues you are unsure of. I'll be claiming points towards the wikicup once this review is over.

Lede
Prose


Additional comments

Additionally, if you liked this review, or are looking for items to review, I have some at my nominations list. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 21:02, 1 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Lee Vilenski: Thanks for the comments. I've addressed these issues now. Epicgenius (talk) 15:11, 2 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Dudley

  • I think you need to give the date of completion in the first sentence to give the context for the description rather than leaving it to the third paragraph.
  • "The exterior contains fifty-four sculptures by prize-winning artists". An exterior containing sculptures does not sound right to me. Perhaps "The exterior is decorated with fifty-four sculptures by prize-winning artists" or "There are fifty-four sculptures by prize-winning artists on the exterior".
  • Is there a reason you name the architects but not the sculptors? "prize-winning artists" sounds like unencyclopedic sales talk.
  • You say that the ground was low and then that the site is a hill. What is the explanation for this? If the hill is artificial you should say so.
  • "but have green and rose accents". I have not come across "accents" in this context before. A link or explanation would be helpful.
  • "On opening, the Surrogate's Courthouse contained a small power plant in the basement".When did it close?
    • The problem is that I can't find any info on whether the power plant is still operating. I do know the building gets its power from the NYC power grid, but I don't know whether it also has its own generator, hence why it's worded like this. Epicgenius (talk) 19:33, 8 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "a grand jury had reported the old Hall of Records was "unsafe and susceptible to destruction by fire"". I would say "reported that the old hall". Is leaving out "that" AmerEng?
  • "However, the municipal building for which Thomas had prepared plans had been canceled in 1894.[67] Thomas was selected as architect upon the urging". This is ambiguous. "selected as architect for the new Hall of Records".
  • "Peirce filed a lawsuit in July 1898 to recover his payment". "to recover his payment" is a confusing expression. Maybe "to receive payment for the granite he had supplied".
  • "Horgan and Slattery would refurbish the not-yet-complete interior". Refurbish means renovate. Were they taking out decoration previously installed? If so, you should say so.
  • This looks fine. All these queries are minor. Dudley Miles (talk) 12:50, 8 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • @Dudley Miles: Thank you for your comments. I've been able to address all of them now except for one. I believe the hill is a natural feature, but I'm not sure why the sentence is worded like that. The bottom of the hill was near a lake, though I have to confirm this with other sources. Epicgenius (talk) 19:33, 8 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

A few comments from ZKang123

Taking a quick look through the page, which seems pretty comprehensive and well-written. Some minor issues:

  • Will the redlinks on the page be created soon? Especially with regard to the two architects in the lead.
  • Early to mid-20th century section: "News outlets reported shortly afterwards some of the building's "marble" was made of plaster, although this was consistent with the construction contract calling for "plaster enrichment". Suggest changing to "Shortly after its opening, news outlets reported that some of the (etc)". I would suggest splitting off the mention of the plaster enrichment construction contract as another sentence (e.g. Nevertheless/However, this was consistent with etc).
  • Critical reception and landmark designations: Optional, but wonder if you would add a beginning sentence stating that reception to the building's design has been largely positive. Are there any negative commentary on the building design?

The article seems well-researched and well-cited. Can't see major problems with the citation styles. Will be willing to support.--ZKang123 (talk) 13:51, 14 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@ZKang123: Thanks for the comments. I have addressed them now. Epicgenius (talk) 12:24, 16 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Source review - pass

Version reviewed. Spotchecks not done.

  • Ref 2, "New York City Landmarks Preservation Commission" has Matthew A Postal listed twice. Recommend removing one, probably the editor parameter.
  • Ref 17 needs an author.
  • New-York Tribune should be wikilinked in ref 25, not ref 35 (as wikilinks should be on the first instance)
  • Ref 127 Wall Street Journal should be wikilinked, and probably changed to The Wall Street Journal to match our wikiarticle (unless this is the wrong newspaper)
  • Per WP:CITESTYLE, References need to have a consistent format. For books, sometimes the reference information is fully in the Citations section (ref 15) while other times the article has a harvnb template with the citation listed in sources (ref 63). Similarly, ref 69 seems to be a journal, when other journals have their citations listed in the citations and not in the sources section. One format should be used for citations that are similar forms of media (like books, journals, newspaper articles, etc.)
    • I don't know what that one book citation was doing in the sources section, so I moved it to the only place where it's used in the body (all the other books are in the body as well). Meanwhile, I've moved all the magazines to the "Sources" section. Epicgenius (talk) 15:59, 20 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I do not have concerns about the high-quality status of the sources. Please ping when the above are addressed. Z1720 (talk) 02:52, 18 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Z1720: Thanks. I have addressed all your comments now. Epicgenius (talk) 15:59, 20 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
My concerns have been addressed. This passes a source review. Z1720 (talk) 16:02, 20 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Query for the coordinators

@FAC coordinators: Am I allowed to nominate another page for FAC? This nomination has 3 prose supports (not counting ZKang's comment of his willingness to support), as well as an image and source review. – Epicgenius (talk) 13:49, 21 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
You are. Gog the Mild (talk) 14:04, 21 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
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