User talk:Red-tailed hawk

IP SW Edit

I just shifted data to make it look more normal like other such profiles.

Zuby

Can you explain the rationale behind passing a Music GA for an article that fails WP:NMG - as noted by two editors during assessment discussion. Will need to be kicked back for community reassessment if staying under music. Acousmana 21:36, 1 February 2022 (UTC)

Can you point me to the part in the GA criteria where subject notability guidelines have an impact on GA status? If you believe that the article subject is non-notable, then take the article to articles for deletion. If your objection to the article's GA status is that it is misclassified, then so be it. The WP:GAN#MUS is for... performers, groups, composers, and other music people. Zuby clearly is a music person, as he composes his own raps and performs thems. He doesn't really fit in under WP:GAN#GOVT (calling him a political figure seems odd considering he isn't an activist and hasn't run for any public office). I'm amenable to him being filed under WP:GAN#CULTURE (which includes Internet culture), but I really don't think that there's any reason that he can't be listed under music when that is his primary occupation. — Mhawk10 (talk) 22:09, 1 February 2022 (UTC)

individual in no way qualifies as notable with respect to music, it's not his "occupation," there is zero evidence using WP:RS to support this assertion, and again, you noted this yourself in the review notes. Your eagerness to push this GA while ignoring a notable conflict with WP:NMG seems very odd. Why did you move to pass GA-Music when it was clear others had already raised valid concerns? And why, having already indicated that WP:GAN#CULTURE or miscellaneous would suffice, did you take a unilateral decision to move forward with category 'music.'? I'm struggling to make sense of your actions here. Acousmana 00:10, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

To be honest, I did it because that is what it was nominated for and I really don't think that the classification of what sort of good article is worth arguing with the nominator over unless it's really egregious. Zuby fits both music and culture, so I don't see anything based in a guideline that would suggest us being required to move his article. That being said, I've moved it per your request; you can sort it out with the nominator if there's any lingering debate. — Mhawk10 (talk) 02:04, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

The subject is widely described as a rapper by reliable secondary sources. If you believe he is not notable, nominate the article to AfD.  Spy-cicle💥  ^Talk? 09:09, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

subject fails WP:NMG, no two ways about it. Note, you failed to address item 3a (left on "hold," should have been addressed within a week, but wasn't), and then this article was passed - almost two months later - as a GA without a closing assessment, it's all very curious. Acousmana 09:59, 3 February 2022 (UTC)

I'm much less concerned about all this, and much more concerned about the glaring factual error in the article's second paragraph. Udezue said he does not think trans women should be allowed to compete in women's sports and said that he broke the record to demonstrate the flaws of the arguments of those who believe they should be. Udezue didn't break any record. He posted a video on Twitter snarkily claiming to break a record as a publicity stunt. It is outrageous for that publicity stunt's claim to be repeated in the encyclopedia's voice on any article, let alone a GA. WP:SOFIXIT, yes, and I'm quite prepared to fix it, but first I'd like to raise this in the broader discussion of if this should be a GA. Because if I cut that bit, well, that's really the only claim in the lede that would (if true) explain why either of these incidents is significant. This added to the controversial issue of transgender people in sports also needs to be cut as, to be frank, not really a coherent sentence. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she/they) 11:05, 3 February 2022 (UTC)

This should really be at Talk:Zuby but there is nothing wrong and said that he broke the record to demonstrate the flaws of the arguments of those who believe they should be as we are attributing the record to him "said he broke". It would be different if it read: After breaking the record, Udezue said he did it demonstrate the flaws of the arguments ... as that says he broke the record in wikivoice. If you want to continue this please do it at Talk:Zuby. Regards  Spy-cicle💥  ^Talk? 17:23, 3 February 2022 (UTC)

a) As Mhawk10 has already said, where in the GA criteria does subject notability guidelines have an impact on GA status? b) it's all very curious Please WP:AGF on the reviewer. GA criteria is the same regardless of the topic area (with a couple of exceptions for fiction and medicine, music does have its own MOS but this is not included on the GA criteria). Regards  Spy-cicle💥  ^Talk? 17:23, 3 February 2022 (UTC)

feel free to explain how an article that simply cannot, in the first instance, be considered a music article - because it fails WP:NMG - can suddenly assume music article status following a GA - it's illogical. But then again, that might explain the eagerness to nominate this as a GA: was attempting to circumvent our guidelines on notability for music articles intentional? Acousmana 09:55, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

You have still have failed to show me the link in guidance and policy pages between the SNG (WP:NMG) and GA topic area (Music, specifically Other music articles WP:GAN#MUS). WP:GAN#MUS states This includes [...] music compositions, performers, groups, composers, and other music people.. Please show me the page which dictate NMG to WP:GAN#MUS. NMG is for notablity guidelines, and the article is notable (feel free to AfD it if you disagree). "was attempting to circumvent our guidelines on notability for music articles intentional" Again, please show me the link between these two separate pages, Zuby is a music person/performer that is all that is required. Also, if you actually read the NMG it states "Musicians or ensembles (this category includes bands, singers, rappers, orchestras, DJs, musical theatre groups, instrumentalists, etc.) may be notable if they meet at least one of the following criteria. Passing or failing one of the criteria does not gurantee notablity nor does it gurantee it is not notworthy it is general rule helpful for determining expected coverage (WP:BASIC).  Spy-cicle💥  ^Talk? 11:05, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) @Acousmana: I think you are seriously misunderstanding the applicability of WP:NMG here. It's a notability guideline for what musicians, groups, songs, etc, are likely to be notable. It is not a guideline for what is considered "a music article". Zuby appears to be primarily a rapper, even if this isn't the only source of their notability, listing them as a music GA is perfectly reasonable. Elli (talk | contribs) 11:19, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

It also seems like you're making a bit of a mountain out of a molehill here. Out of all the things to argue about on Wikipedia, what category a GA should be listed in is just... really minor and inconsequential? It impacts next-to-nothing. Elli (talk | contribs) 11:21, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

let me reiterate, said individual fails WP:NMG on every count - it's not a music article - none of this is difficult to comprehend, unless: 1) there is a vested interest; 2) one is a fanboy who will not countenance denigration of their idol. Acousmana 12:01, 8 February 2022 (UTC)

@Acousmana: If you really want to keep pursuing this line, do you really believe that Zuby fails WP:MUSICBIO#1? If so, why haven’t you nominated the article for deletion? — Mhawk10 (talk) 13:00, 8 February 2022 (UTC)

why? well, because it's not a music article, and the guy is not a musician, so it is therefore not a music bio. We've been over this, the notability of this individual rests almost solely on coverage surrounding the false arrest incident and reactions to his transgender stance - remove both of those from the equation and there is nothing of note. It's someone piggybacking a few scatterings of notoriety in order to try and promote a non-existent music career, and for whatever reason, a single editor has assisted with this. Of course all of this could change: he might chart, get a distribution deal with a major, have an album reviewed in [insert notable publication here] etc., but until then, not a notable artist. Acousmana 18:59, 8 February 2022 (UTC)

Three things:

1. There is precisely zero in Wikipedia policies or guidelines that requires articles to pass any part of NMG to be considered “music” for the purposes of where a GA is listed. Even if there were, as I show below, Zuby would actually pass WP:NMG.
2. If I were to write an article on The Hillbilly Thomists, a band, the only part of WP:NMG it would pass is WP:MUSICBIO#1—which is to say that it is a Musicians or ensembles (this category includes bands, singers, rappers, orchestras, DJs, musical theatre groups, instrumentalists, etc.) and it passes GNG. (For what it’s worth, they do 1 2 3 4 5.) The band has never charted, nor really had mainstream success, but that doesn’t mean that it isn’t described by remarkable sources as a band—that’s exactly what the group is. They do not need to pass some part of WP:NMG other than WP:MUSICBIO#1 to pass NMG, of course.
3. Nowhere in MUSICBIO#1 does the guideline say that the significant coverage has to be about the musician’s music. All beyond WP:SIGCOV that is required to pass this is that Zuby is a rapper. While he is not a very successful rapper, this is how reliable sources describe him. As a result, he therefore passes WP:MUSICBIO#1 and thereby satisfies WP:NMG. Of course, this has no deterministic bearing on what category he goes in (see point #1), but I think you might want to reconsider the basis of your argument.

— Mhawk10 (talk) 19:47, 8 February 2022 (UTC)

I would suggest that your entire argument rests on what is perhaps misapprehension of the statement: "Note that regardless of what notability criterion is being claimed, the claim must be properly verified by reliable sources independent of the subject's own self-published promotional materials."

Within the broader context of WP:MUSICBIO it's clear "notability criterion" relates specifically to music, it's implicit. Let's look at the sentence that immediately follows: "It is extremely common for aspiring musicians who want a Wikipedia article for the publicity to make inflated or false notability claims, such as charting hits that did not really chart (or which charted only on a non-notable WP:BADCHART) or nominations for awards that are not prominent enough to pass criteria number 8 (below). Thus, notability is not determined by what the article says, it is determined by how well the article does or does not support the things it says by referencing them to independent verification in reliable sources..

The notability context is music, the "false claims" relate to music etc. It does seem that your misapprehension of this first statement runs through into criteria #1: Has been the subject of multiple, non-trivial, published works appearing in sources that are reliable, not self-published, and are independent of the musician or ensemble itself.

Again it is implicit that coverage of the subject's music is the context here, not peripheral bio stuff. All other criteria (2-12) are specific to notability in the field of music. Zuby fails them all. The WP:MUSICBIO guideline is concerned with notability/coverage in the field of music/music press etc. nothing else. Acousmana 12:23, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Writer's Barnstar
	I must say I thought it was a just lovely composition. Visually appealing too. From now on when I need to compile a lengthy response, I'll just copy+paste whatever formatting you used there. EnlightenmentNow1792 (talk) 08:43, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

WP:AFC Helper News

Hello! I wanted to drop a quick note for all of our AFC participants; nothing huge and fancy like a newsletter, but a few points of interest.

• AFCH will now show live previews of the comment to be left on a decline.
• The template {{db-afc-move}} has been created - this template is similar to {{db-move}} when there is a redirect in the way of an acceptance, but specifically tells the patrolling admin to let you (the draft reviewer) take care of the actual move.

Short and sweet, but there's always more to discuss at WT:AFC. Stop on by, maybe review a draft on the way? Whether you're one of our top reviewers, or haven't reviewed in a while, I want to thank you for helping out in the past and in the future. Cheers, Primefac, via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:00, 16 February 2022 (UTC)

Conflict at Reliable sources noticeboard

Sorry about that, I didn't handle the edit conflict correctly. - Donald Albury 22:36, 17 February 2022 (UTC)

Not a problem! This stuff happens all the time. — Mhawk10 (talk) 22:54, 17 February 2022 (UTC)

Meriden Mall

Hey I made several constructive changes to this mall, and removed several trivial statements and shortenrd many unnecessary announcements. Timetravlerdiva (talk) 03:23, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

Hi Timetravlerdiva! I've self-reverted; this edit flagged in Huggle as likely non-constructive, which I intended to revert due to the spelling error, but I did not mean to revert all of your edits to the page. My apologies for the inconvenience this may have caused. — Mhawk10 (talk) 03:39, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

Wonderful thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Timetravlerdiva (talk • contribs) 03:54, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Repatriation tax avoidance

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Repatriation tax avoidance you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Lee Vilenski -- Lee Vilenski (talk) 16:21, 22 February 2022 (UTC)

Nomination of Battle of Kyiv (2022) for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Battle of Kyiv (2022) is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Battle of Kyiv (2022) until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article.

Curbon7 (talk) 03:27, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Civility Barnstar
	Consider this an apology, things are just a little tense right now! Curbon7 (talk) 05:21, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

@Curbon7: Not an issue! I hope all is ok. — Mhawk10 (talk) 05:47, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

Nomination of Battle of Kyiv (2022) for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Battle of Kyiv (2022) is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Battle of Kyiv (2022) (2nd nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article.

― Tartan357 ^Talk 09:36, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

The WikiCup

It is too late to sign up for the WikiCup this year, nominations having closed at the end of January. You will be welcome to take part in 2023! Cwmhiraeth (talk) 12:00, 26 February 2022 (UTC)

The Signpost: 27 February 2022

• From the team: Selection of a new Signpost Editor-in-Chief

• News and notes: Impacts of Russian invasion of Ukraine

• Opinion: Why student editors are good for Wikipedia

• Special report: A presidential candidate's team takes on Wikipedia

• In the media: Wiki-drama in the UK House of Commons

• Serendipity: War photographers: from Crimea (1850s) to the Russian invasion of Ukraine (2022)

• Technology report: Community Wishlist Survey results

• WikiProject report: 10 years of tea

• Featured content: Featured Content returns

• Deletion report: The 10 most SHOCKING deletion discussions of February

• Recent research: How editors and readers may be emotionally affected by disasters and terrorist attacks

• Arbitration report: Parties remonstrate, arbs contemplate, skeptics coordinate

• By the numbers: Does birthplace affect the frequency of Wikipedia biography articles?

• Gallery: The vintage exhibit

• Traffic report: Euphoria, Pamela Anderson, lies and Netflix

• News from Diff: The Wikimania 2022 Core Organizing Team

• Crossword: A Crossword, featuring Featured Articles

• Humour: Notability of mailboxes

* Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 20:20, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

That's now how citations work

I see you reverted my edit saying there was no visual evidence that Ukraine downed any IL-76s. This does not require a citation as there quite literally is no evidence to refute IdkIdc12345 (talk) 01:51, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

While this is probably moot now, that isn't how WP:V works. If we are affirmatively stating that there is no visual evidence of X in the article, then we need a source that says that there is no visual evidence of X. If the reporting on the topic does not specifically mention visual evidence, then we cannot synthesize that there is no visual evidence. In cases where media are not confirming claims, but claims are widely reported, it might just be better to attribute claims to the person/state organ making them. — Mhawk10 (talk) 18:35, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

Casey Wasserman

Any particular reason you reverted my edits? You left none in your edit summary. 107.127.46.19 (talk) 23:26, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

That was a misclick. I apologize for that and I have self-reverted. — Mhawk10 (talk) 23:27, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

Apologies for Bad RfC

Hi, I am VickKiang. Thanks for your participation in my RfC and sorry for the trouble it caused due to the poor NPOV in the OP, which I would need to improve next time. VickKiang (talk) 21:13, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

A barnstar for your efforts

		The Current Events Barnstar
		Awarded for efforts in expanding and verifying articles related to the 2021–2022 Russo-Ukrainian crisis and 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine. Awarded by Cdjp1 (talk) 7 March 2022 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Repatriation tax avoidance

The article Repatriation tax avoidance you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Repatriation tax avoidance for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already appeared on the main page as a "Did you know" item, or as a bold link under "In the News" or in the "On This Day" prose section, you can nominate it within the next seven days to appear in DYK. Bolded names with dates listed at the bottom of the "On This Day" column do not affect DYK eligibility. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Lee Vilenski -- Lee Vilenski (talk) 13:41, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

RFC regarding the title format for articles covering bilateral relations

Regarding your close, could you clarify how "consistency" arguments should be considered, given there is no consensus for either A or B? BilledMammal (talk) 00:34, 9 March 2022 (UTC)