User talk:Pigsonthewing/Archive 19: Difference between revisions

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Nature reserves

Hi - I thought you might be interested to know that I've created Category:Nature reserves in England by county and started creating subcategories for each of the counties. SP-KP 12:08, 27 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed. Thank you, both for doing so, and for letting me know. Andy Mabbett 12:09, 27 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ridiculous vandalism to my talk page

Just a thanks for reverting edits by User:0Andrew0 on my user talk page. I contacted an admin yesterday over the users edits. It's an odd situation as the user had previously contributed usefully to Wikipedia and has suddenly turned into a nuisance editor. - Erebus555 19:04, 27 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Revert Parole

Under your arbitration case at Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Pigsonthewing, you were placed on revert parole, limiting you to one revert per article per week. Per this clarification, the revert parole was suspended during your one year ban but remains in force. The revert parole is a better way of dealing with your problematic behavior than topical bans, so I am hereby rescinding the ban I placed on your making infobox-related edits. However be aware that you are limited to one revert per article per week, and note that in past cases the arbitrators have indicated that "article" is meant to include all project pages including templates. Thatcher131 15:05, 28 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Joseph Chamberlain Memorial Clock Tower

Hi. I've noticed that the bell weights given at Joseph Chamberlain Memorial Clock Tower and University of Birmingham are different (one is 6.5 tonnes, the other 6.5 tons), and the one specified at Joseph Chamberlain Memorial Clock Tower seems to have changed from 6 to 6.5 tonnes at some stage. Any idea which is correct? Cordless Larry 18:46, 28 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

No idea, sorry. Andy Mabbett 18:47, 28 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

OK, no worries. I've asked the editor who originally added it. Cordless Larry 18:53, 28 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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reverts

hi, appreciate your vigour with some of my contribs! im new to this so woudl appreacite before reverting my changes you give me a chace to add further details.

e.g. on st philips cathedral you reverted what you saw as a fact (not sure what it was) but on another article on birmingham redevelopement scheme you merely added citation required tags. instead of reverting i would appreciate the same approach, as i usually save so i can go and find the citations i have and copy paste them in, which takes me some time to do as ii'm not used to it, and thenf ind you have reverted in the meantime. regards UKbandit 16:30, 29 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Don't worry about the Birmingham Redevelopment Scheme. I am currently re-writing the article, hence the inuse tag, though my Firefox has run into a bit of trouble and has remained 'Not responding' for about 35 minutes now. I should have saved it as I was going along (I was nearly finished :( ) - Erebus555 17:36, 29 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ouch! we all get bitten like that, at least once. Andy Mabbett 17:37, 29 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

By some sort of miracle, it didn't get deleted. It was some pesky pdf file I was going to use as a citation which caused it to crash. - Erebus555 17:59, 29 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

David Gilmour contributions - Give Birth To A Smile

I didn't delete the song, just put it after the Syd Barrett albuns since Music from "The Body" was released later. Black Condor 02:00, 1 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Co-ordinates again

Silly question - is it IE6 or should the co-ordinates displayed at the top of the page be touching the title line (look at Bridge Street or Glasgow Central. --Stewart 14:34, 2 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

No idea - I suggest you ask on the talk page for whichever skin you're using. Andy Mabbett 14:54, 2 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Coor vs. coord

Just cc-ing you on my response in Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style (dates and numbers):

Adding geodata to Wikipedia is a huge project, and requires stable standards. This doesn't mean we can't ever change them, but when we do, we should take care to do so in a measured way.

What bothers me is the constant changes of course, as one group or another declares their proposal to be the one-and-only official format. I'd actually be quite happy with {{coord}}, providing that the major downstream reusers are happy with it too. At the moment, our major users of geodata are the Kolossus team at de:Wikipedia:WikiProjekt Georeferenzierung and Google. If you want to get {{coord}} accepted, I suggest you get both those groups to buy into it.

User:Gmaxwell seems to have made some fairly reasonable and balanced comments about this. de:Benutzer:Stefan Kühn is probably the best person to talk to at the Kolossus team. Evan Martin from Google participates in Wikitech-l. If you can get all of these people happy with using {{coord}} data, I would be quite happy to support a proposal for standardizing on it. Otherwise, without consensus among major generators and users of geodata, sticking with the status quo, even if it's ugly, will sadly remain the best option. -- The Anome 14:58, 2 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Infobox Scottish island

Dear Mr. Pigsonthewing, I note your recent edits to the above. They are aesthetically interesting and apparently have a positive purpose, which eludes me. I wonder if you could provide some simple overview of their purpose? Yours, with a Dotterel. Ben MacDui (Talk) 23:23, 5 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I added an hCard microformat, and enabled use of {{coord}} which generates a geo microformat, and gives users a choice of whether they see coordinates in degrees-minutes-seconds or as decimal values. See Raasay for an implementation. See also microformats in Wikipedia. Finally, I used {{template doc}} to put the documentation on a separate page, and "transclude" it into the template page. Andy Mabbett 07:26, 6 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This would appear to be a whole new unexplored wiki-continent as far as I am concerned! I understand the idea in general terms although I am not going to pretend I understand how it is done. Two minor practical problems. 1) The Co-ordinates now appear in the infobox and at the top of the page above it. Can the latter be suppressed? 2) The 'Coordinates' text in the Infobox is not quite congruent with the 'OS grid reference' text above it. (It's bold, has no antecedent colon and is not at the same tab stop). Can you tell me how I can fix this? Thanks Ben MacDui (Talk) 08:42, 6 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"Can the latter be suppressed?" - It could be, but the current display is deliberate, and more usual.

"The 'Coordinates' text in the Infobox is not quite congruent" - I'm not sure why that is, and have already asked on the template's talk page for assistance (I have also just added a colon).

Andy Mabbett 10:41, 6 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've had a go at fixing this. (chgallen 14:00, 6 June 2007 (UTC))[reply]

Thanks - that's looking much better. Re 'It could be, but the current display is deliberate, and more usual.' It looks a bit odd as the infobox is usually just below it and it repeats the same info. Is there any particular reason for this? Ben MacDui (Talk) 19:35, 6 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Might I also ask whether there any particular reason for this duplication, other than personal preference (which I don't share)? Some technical reason perhaps? (I would like a choice - either title, or info box or both; failing which title only, as previously.) -- roundhouse 14:31, 7 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

From a microformat PoV, it's better to have the coordinates inside the infobox, so that they become part of the hCard microformat. I have no idea why the general preference might be to have them in the title bar as well. Andy Mabbett 14:59, 7 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

People have got used to seeing coords in the title, after much initial opposition, and don't mind them being entered in the infobox as long as the display remains the same. From a microformat PoV, is there any objection to coords as implemented in Leicester Grammar School? I would like (ideally) something like (in the info box):

| latitude = 52.6344

| longitude = -1.1380

| dms = on/off

| display = inline/title (delete as reqd)

(The coordinates are in some way embedded in the infobox because if I switch to simple skin in Opera the coords in Leicester Grammar School appear inline in the infobox and not in the title. And operator with Firefox gives the named location.) -- roundhouse 16:51, 7 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"From a microformat PoV, is there any objection to coords as implemented in Leicester Grammar School?" - that is the display forced by {{Infobox GB school}}. The coordinates are in the infobox (which is an HTML table), but are hidden by CSS. I'm not familiar with the Opera circumstances you describe, but I suspect that the hiding CSS is overridden or missing. This would seem to be valid, from a microformat viewpoint (if the coordinates were totally hidden, it would not be), but I have yet to understand why showing them twice is a bad thing. Andy Mabbett 17:06, 7 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Pardon my intrusion, friends. I have tweaked the infobox template so that the coords are displayed slightly better in simple skin ~~and also so that their usual position is displayed on the template page~~ (ignore that). In regards to roundhouse's suggestion - that should be possible to implement, once the coord worker bees have fixed the display bug.

If the general consensus is against repetition for the Scottish island infobox, I am more than willing to fix that one to work in the same way as GB school (though it will have to be tomorrow, I'm afraid - I have physics to revise). (chgallen 17:44, 7 June 2007 (UTC))[reply]

Personally I prefer the display in this version of Raasay as opposed to the present one (which has in fact triplication of coordinates as OS Grid ref is a translation of the same thing, and the coords in the title collide with the horizontal line). -- roundhouse 15:14, 9 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

hcard-geo template

On a related issue there is {{hcard-geo}}, a nice template recently created by AM. I have applied this to Sheffield Cathedral (assuming no-one reverts it) and now get a display which I like with a geo location named in Operator (no info box). So this seems to be an up-to-date-hcarded way of having coords in the title (no repetition) independent of the info-box (if any). -- roundhouse 15:14, 9 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Actually Sheffield Cathedral has some stray text as a result. Perhaps I have made the change incorrectly .. AM? -- roundhouse 15:18, 9 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That's a miss-use of that template, which is intended for "inline" or "inline, title" display, As you've used it, it leaves the text "Sheffield cathedral ()" orphaned near the foot of the page. Andy Mabbett 15:17, 9 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

OK - then I won't be (mis)using it unless Chg can improve it. -- roundhouse 15:22, 9 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There's nothing to "improve" - it does what it's intended to, perfectly. Andy Mabbett 15:25, 9 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've created and applied to that article, {{hcard-geo-title}}. It still needs some work, but see what you think. Andy Mabbett 15:43, 9 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

{{hcard-geo-title}} seems to do exactly what I want. Excellent. Should it go at the top (which seems logical) or in the footer (which was where coor title was supposed to be placed acc to some guideline somewhere)? -- roundhouse 15:45, 9 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry

Sorry for getting so emotive, creating a storm in a teacup, and wasting your time, on an edit by another contributor. --Stewart 23:05, 6 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Edit to Template:Infobox Historic building

A recent change you made to Template:Infobox Historic building leaves "{{#if: |" at the top of articles that include that template. Is there a way to fix it without loseing the content you added? Also, on this page Halton House the coordinate information appears to be conflicting with this tag {{coor title dms|51|46|52.92|N|0|43|35.06|W|}} -- Ryan Roos 03:38, 7 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Someone seems to have beaten me to a fix for the former; apologies for that. Halton House looks fine; you don't need to use a coor title template if the coordinates are in the infobox. Andy Mabbett 09:07, 7 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Penkridge weather station data in Brownhills article

I was following the example of Herne Bay, Kent, a featured article, which has the data for the closest station (which in that case is much further away from the town in question) within the article on said town..... ChrisTheDude 12:45, 7 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

As you can see from my recent addition to the Brownhills talk page, having the table on a separate article means that it can be linked to from the articles about all the nearby towns. It can also have background information about the weather station added. Andy Mabbett 12:47, 7 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds like a plan :-) ChrisTheDude 12:52, 7 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

What are microformats?

Hi Andy. I think I forgot to say welcome back (you may or may not remember me as User:Proto). In the interests of calming things down before someone gets blocked, could you explain to me in words of one syllable what microformats are, and why they benefit Wikipedia? Thanks. Neil ╦ 20:13, 8 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've never been away, but yes, I remember you. I suggest you start at WP:UF and follow the links from there; then get back to me if you have any further questions. Andy Mabbett 20:33, 8 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I don't doubt that they are useful, but I had a look at WP:UF and I am none the wiser. I am by no means hanging on tenterhooks, but my suggestion would be to approach someone who does not know what they are for and ask them to write an introduction. As with so many WP explanations and instructions, it is written by someone who already knows the answer and not from the POV of somone who does not. Ben MacDui (Talk) 10:56, 9 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You sound like an ideal candidate, then... Andy Mabbett 11:01, 9 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've added an example to the intro of WP:UF. How's that? Andy Mabbett 11:16, 9 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That is actually very helpful. A sentence or two on why they are useful would probably do the trick. Ben MacDui (Talk) 11:32, 9 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Done, please try again. Andy Mabbett 11:44, 9 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Template:French commune

Hello, do you think you could fix the problem you caused with this edit. You can see on User:Jackaranga/Sandbox/Template:French commune and User:Jackaranga/Sandbox, that the problem does in fact arise after your edit. I don't know how to fix it and I suspect it may be impossible. You tried to make the longitude and latitude tags display the coordinates using the mediawiki locater thing, but it didn't work. Example Douai and many many others, the longitude and latitude tags need to be kept for backwards compatibility, either that or you need to fix all the pages using that template if you want to remove it. This happened because you did not into account the fact that people use ° ' ", you thought they just used decimal input. I hope you understand why you can't just automatise a field that accepted any form of input up until then. There are many many pages that have had the problem since your may 14th edit. If you remove the longitude and latitude tags you should make a bot to fix all the pages, or ask someone to, best not to just remove a feature and not fix the pages using it. Hope you can do something about this, thanks. example: Saint-Amand-les-Eaux Jackaranga 02:40, 9 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Apologies; I've rolled back that part of my edit. Andy Mabbett 08:14, 9 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Query re microformats

Hi Andy. I was a bit curious about the class="fn org" you added to Template:Infobox Australian Place, which seems to suggest that a place name/place is an organisation. Is this standard use of the hCard microformat? JPD (talk) 15:58, 9 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, it's a known issue, but not yet resolved. that said, it doesn't stop hCards from being very useful, it just means they're not quite as specific as they could be. As yet, there are no parsers which need to distinguish between types of hCard for places or organisations - and there would be grey areas to consider if they could do so. It's more a matter of a desired feature for the future. Andy Mabbett 16:15, 9 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, the confusion about whether hCards are for people or are more general is indeed one of the unimportant qualms I have about their use on Wikipedia and similar uses elsewhere. However, I was trying to address a more specific, immediate issue: given that we are using an hCard in the template to refer to a place, is it appropriate include an "org" class? It is optional, and seems to be better left out in this case. Am I missing something? JPD (talk) 16:47, 9 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There is no confusion, hCards are, by definition, for people, organisations or places. Using "fn org" indicates that they are for an organisation or place; using just "fn" specifies explicitly that they apply to people. In other words, use of "fn org" is mandatory for hCards about places. The issue cited is about the possibility, in the future, of differentiating between those for organisations and places. Andy Mabbett 18:40, 9 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

By confusion, I did not mean much more than the issues raised in the link you gave above. If the current approach is that "fn org" implies organisation or place, because "fn" specifies a person, then that is the answer to my question. I didn't realise this, because the microformats page says "If the "FN" and "ORG" properties have the exact same value (typically because they are set on the same element, e.g. class="fn org"), then the hCard represents contact information for a company or organization and should be treated as such." Maybe that should be updated. Thanks for explaining, JPD (talk) 16:07, 11 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I agree; and have updated that page accordingly. Cheers, Andy Mabbett 16:11, 11 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Geolinks-buldingscale

I am bit confused by the edit you have made to Geolinks-buildingscale

--Scotthatton 16:38, 12 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Feel free to remove it, and that on {{coord}}, if you wish. Andy Mabbett 20:02, 12 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Template:UK Parish

Hi, your last changes to above template appear to have changed layout. Can you change to unbold Region & Coordinates and to left align as per the rest of the labels in the template?

Keith D 17:33, 12 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've tried (using preview) and can't figure out how. Elsewhere, I'm waiting for an answer to a question about where to get help with templates. When I do, I'll raise the issue there. Andy Mabbett 20:01, 12 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

How about reverting until you figure it out? Keith D 20:14, 12 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think that the gain in functionality outweighs a temporary and minor aesthetic problem; the content is still readable. Andy Mabbett 20:20, 12 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think I have the answer now it is to do with the ! making it a header row. I will change the template - if it causes a problem with the mark-up then revert it. Keith D 20:46, 12 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Great, thank you. Andy Mabbett 20:49, 12 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

{coord}

Thanks for updating Template:Infobox PNG Place with information on the new coordinates template, and providing a fix on Goroka. I will modify as many articles with this template as I can tonight to use the new coord template. Aliasd 13:50, 13 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Splendid! Thank you. You may be interested in the project to put microformats on Wikipedia and, of youre nor using ot already, the Operator extension for Firefox. Andy Mabbett 13:54, 13 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks

For reverting the vandalism on my talk page!

mcr616 _Speak! has smiled at you! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling at someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Happy editing!
Smile at others by adding {{subst:Smile}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

mcr616 _Speak! 16:40, 14 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hey, I'm trying to find all of 12.207.12.28 's socks. Has anyone been harassing you via Wikipedia lately besides 12.207.12.28? mcr616 _Speak! 17:40, 14 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Question on use of state senator template

I tried using {{Infobox State Senator}} on James Leddy (commented out the template incidentally). The display instead generated him a title of "US Congressman" much to my surprise. I went to my US congressman's article Peter Welch and someone had used another template. I'm lost. Can you point me in the right direction for a state senator's template? Thanks.Student7 02:05, 15 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, no idea. Try the template's talk page. Andy Mabbett 12:01, 15 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Disused stations in the West Midlands

I just wanted to drop my thanks for your double-checking of the new articles I've recently created, especially for fixing my error on Spon Lane railway station. It is appreciated! Fingerpuppet 05:27, 15 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

A pleasure - I'm finding them really interesting. Thank you. Andy Mabbett 06:23, 15 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Upright format in images

You editted Icknield Street School not long ago with the edit summary of "fmt imgs per MoS". In the edit you added 'upright' to the image tags. I've had a look over WP:MOS, and have found nothing in that or the Picture Tutorial that these need to be added to images. So are these really tags really necessary for images? - Erebus555 12:02, 15 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Infobox U.S. County

"Coordinates" should not be a parameter within this template. If you want it to be, you should make it where the {{{coordinates}}} variable doesn't include the template, but just the parameters of the template. Adding this line...

 coordinates = {{coord|with a bunch of parameters that users don't understand}}

... makes no sense.

Timneu22 16:00, 16 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sorry you feel like that, but please don't present your lack of understanding as a "should" for me to obey. Wikipedia - and life - doesn't work like that. Andy Mabbett 16:05, 16 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

And the reason you didn't see anything on the template's talk page was because you reverted again, before I'd finished writing it. Please read what I wrote there, and undo your reversion. Andy Mabbett 16:08, 16 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Re: Infobox Settlement

Excellent idea - that seems to be suitable for the most part (and far more developed than my version) Go right ahead and delete the NZ Town infobox, if you wish.

AfD nomination of List of_banks_of_the_United_States_of_America

I've nominated List of_banks_of_the_United_States_of_America, an article you created, for deletion. We appreciate your contributions, but in this particular case I do not feel that List of_banks_of_the_United_States_of_America satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion; I have explained why in the nomination space (see also "What Wikipedia is not" and the Wikipedia deletion policy). Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of_banks_of_the_United_States_of_America and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~). You are free to edit the content of List of_banks_of_the_United_States_of_America during the discussion but should not remove the articles for deletion template from the top of the article; such removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you. Videmus Omnia 02:36, 17 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

deletion of {{coord dms mountain}}

Thank you for finding this! I had just completely lost track of it. It was obviated by {{Infobox mountain}} hike395 00:16, 18 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Piper at the gates of dawn

Hi pigsonthewing Yes i wrote that 'essay' on the piper page and it is almost completly original. I knew it would get deleted, but i really want something like that to be encorporated into the article. Thanks for pasting it on to the talk page anyway - Ummagumma23 10:09 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Re: Leonig Mig

I appreciate from your edits and his that you're both trying to edit constructively but are too combative. Trust me, I've been in such scrapes myself. Try to assume good faith and act in such away that you deserve others to assume similarly (even though LM has failed to do so in the past), be civil and try to forgive. I know it's not easy, but forgiveness can get you places that grudges can't. Make up with LM - I've removed his section attacking you, too, by the way - and try (BOTH OF YOU!) to get on with helpful editing, either together or separately. Happy editing!

Best wishes,

Vox Humana 8' 14:50, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]