User talk:Jimbo Wales

Giovanni di Stefano‎

In light of the recent lawsuit against the foundation and several volunteers here your intervention would be much appreciated. This isn't the sort of thing that should be handled by the community. I understand that you cannot speak publicly about the lawsuit but surely you can make an executive decision on the fate of the article. What ever happened to WP:OFFICE? EconomicsGuy (talk) 07:15, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Mike Godwin has been notified. At the present time, I personally see no reason to believe that there has been a lawsuit filed in any jurisdiction, though it is of course possible. I see no reason at the present time that the article should be treated in any special way. Mr. Giovanni is a well known and colorful character about whom there are many reliable sources. As a general principle, Wikipedia articles on living persons should report faithfully on what reliable sources say, with due consideration given to WP:NPOV and WP:UNDUE. In complex cases, especially, WP:NOR must be given careful consideration as well. We need to respect human dignity, and the best way to do that is to write and monitor carefully and with a loving outlook.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 12:05, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Thank you Jimbo for commenting on the AfD and your response here. Apparently there is some confusion about what was posted on his website. I'm sure you would know if we were actually being sued for 50 M Euro! Cheers, EconomicsGuy (talk) 15:00, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Well, time will tell I suppose. In the meantime, I hope that Wikipedia will have a high quality article which sticks rigorously to high quality sources without editorializing at all. --Jimbo Wales (talk) 15:20, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Purely as a general comment, if a lawsuit against Wikipedia for that sort of money is actually filed, it will be reported. There will no confusion as to whether it has actually happened. -- Seth Finkelstein (talk) 15:24, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

If this "lawsuit" isn't even real, why are we still discussing the page on AfD?--Pewwer42  Talk  16:24, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

It's saber-rattling. How seriously you take it, and how you react, is another matter. Again, just speaking in generalities, for someone to write something like that is a good indicator that they're pretty upset. -- Seth Finkelstein (talk) 17:01, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Pewer, we are discussing the page on the afd because someone afd'd the article and there clearly is no snowball. Thanks, SqueakBox 17:17, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

What the heck, I'm a Real Journalist, I'll ask him what's up (asking the Wikimedia Foundation will of course be at best useless, and at worse get me flamed). Maybe I can break some news before Valleywag :-) -- Seth Finkelstein (talk) 17:35, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

You might want to run a search for John Murray and di Stefano. Actualy in a completely unrelated case (involveing a german hacker) someone did try and take legal action against the foundation but the letter telling them this ended up in Russia.Geni 18:03, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

(outdent) He didn't reply to me today, but maybe he's busy with other matters. At a Site Which Shall Not Be Named, a poster claiming to be him wrote "The UK News Media will be publishing details of the Italian Criminal and Civil Actions in tomorrows papers". We'll see. -- Seth Finkelstein (talk) 22:43, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

First mention I've seen in Google News, though it's just reporting what he says, and is a minor item -- Seth Finkelstein (talk) 23:29, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

I heard back from him. I'm trying to understand what he said, it involves complicated (to me) Italian law. In any case, it seems to be in a very early stage. -- Seth Finkelstein (talk) 09:19, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Just so you are aware, Jimbo, I've just closed the AfD. I'm fairly certain someone is going to bring it to DRV, but they have a huge consensus to overturn. Thanks for your input here. Hersfold ^(t/a/c) 20:56, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

To be honest I hope nobody does challenge it, its run the 5 days and given the consensus DRV is not the way to address the very real issue in this article. Thanks, SqueakBox 21:00, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Don't be so sure it will end up on DRV. Allegations of state terrorism by the United States was much closer than this one and that one didn't end up on DRV despite simular drama potential. I think there is broad concensus that the BLP issues must be dealt wih through editing rather than deletion. EconomicsGuy (talk) 21:10, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

I thought the afd was an excellent idea and I would have gone to DRV if it had been closed well before the 5 days but this article does not need more drama or the attention of those looking for drama. Thanks, SqueakBox 21:21, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

System Developer/steward

Mr Wales,

I recently passed my A Level computing with a Distinction and was wondering if i could be a developer or a steward as i got the highest mark that you can get (100%) I was wondering if i could upload my programme which does the same work as 10 stewards and automatically reviews the requests for admins and the Bureaucrats. Would love the opportunity to use my software on the wiki and would be proud to offer exclusive rights to the wiki organisation.

Yours Sincerly

Chris19910 (talk) 10:47, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Best to ask Brion Vibber or some of the stewards....--Jimbo Wales (talk) 22:06, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Question concerning the Arbitration Committee's terms of office

I'm asking this here because, even though the community election suggests the members, you do the actual selecting, and so your insight concerning "membership" would seem to be something that would be likely invaluable.

From another discussion (which is still even barely in its formative stages) We were making comparisons to the length of terms of an arbcomm member.

And it would seem that 3 years is quite a long time. Is there any particular reason for this? Or is it merely that 3 is nicely scalable to 3 tranches, with yearly elections?

If the latter, would you be willing to entertain the idea of 2 year terms, with 4 tranches, with semi-annual (6 month) elections? (This would, by its nature, increase the membership from 15 (3 tranches of 5 seats) to 16 (4 tranches of 4 seats).)

I also think this might help with the burnout and inactiveity that seems to come with the job (quite a few seem to have become inactive and/or quit before the duration of their terms.)

What do you think? - jc37 22:08, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

I will raise the question with the ArbCom when the time comes, but one of the reasons for such a long term is so that ArbCom members have a certain amount of "judicial independence" needed to make possibly unpopular decisions. Another reason is that we want our ArbCom to have a strong "institutional memory". And finally, it seems to me that experience matters. At the same time, I do acknowledge that the long terms do lead to a situation where members may burnout or become inactive before their terms are up, and that's worthy of taking note of when thinking about the optimal length of terms.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 22:10, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

I would agree with all of the above. Thank you very much for your thoughts and consideration. - jc37 22:16, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

My initial reaction to your post, Jc37, is that 3 years is a very short time, i certainly don't think we should have arbcom elections more than once a year, if anything less as it takes up a lot of community energy. Most political elections are for 4 or 5 years and for the reasons Jimbo outlines. Thanks, SqueakBox 22:31, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

The internet, and interactions thereof, is quite different than RL terms for political office. (Noting also that Arbcomm shouldn't be considered a political office.) My belief is based on my own personal observations of "online" interactions. And I remember a quote from a friend of mine (who was probably quoting someone else) essentially suggesting that "Online, 6 months is this side of forever". It's very similar to the service industry. In a restaurant, it's not uncommon to see entire crews of employees "turn over" in a 6-month period. And Wikipedia is a volunteer service. 2 years is still a fairly lengthy amount of time, and I think it would provide the "cover" and stability necessary in the position, as noted above. - jc37 22:39, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

I agree with you that 3 years seems like quite a long time. That said, a considerable amount of effort is used on the Arbitration Committee elections already. Do we wish to double the time we spend electing people? I don't think that's a particularly good way to solve a problem, personally. Not that I have any better suggestions... --Deskana (talk) 22:41, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

While I could indeed be wrong, I think having the elections semi-annually would actually reduce the "amount of effort". Personally, I think much of the "extra effort" is because it's only "once a year". The time in between is so lengthy, that much ground is re-tread. And with more than a few new faces. So essentially the elections suffer somewhat from needing more of that same "institutional memory". But, again, that's just my personal observation of last time. - jc37 22:49, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

I think 3 years is a reasonable time, but perhaps Jimbo could do an health check each 3 or 6 months, and if an arbitrator has become inactive/burned, then he could appoint someone to take over the rest of the term. _→AzaToth 23:00, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Are there any stats available for inactivity/quit/removal? - jc37 23:09, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

There's a timeline at Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee showing when people joined and left the ArbCom. At a quick glance, it looks like less than half of all members serve out the full three years. --Carnildo (talk) 08:32, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for the link. I had seen that, but was hoping that more statistics (with more information) might exist somewhere, or that some person "in the know" might helpfully be willing to create them : ) - jc37 16:48, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Other than perhaps because the internet population is younger than the meatspace population i disagree that 3 years is a long time online (and it certainly shouldn't be) and I don't think your restaurant analogy is fair because people waiting on tables are in low skilled jobs which maybe you can learn in a few weeks, and if a hamburger chain had that high a turn over of its upper echelons it would be run out of business very quickly, and arbcom is at the intellectual/demanding end of wikipedia. Thanks, SqueakBox 23:04, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Going by the burnout rate 3 years is a long time but that burnout rate means we can't really afford to shorten it.Geni 01:57, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Edinburgh?

Hi Jimbo,

i was in Edinburgh town centre this evening and I walked past someone who looked (and sounded) suspiciously like you. I wanted to say hello but wasn't actually 100% sure if it was you or not. I looked on your travel page but sadly it is a bit out of date and so I couldn't actually tell if you were due to be over here in Scotland.

Was it you, or are you going the way of Elvis?

Cheers, Mike (formerly User:Astral)
137.195.250.2 (talk) 00:38, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Responsible Editing Pledge

Would you give your consideration to signing this pledge from doc Glasgow. Thanks, SqueakBox 00:53, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Do all the signees to the pledge agree that:

"Writing about a living person anonymously is blatantly cowardly." ?

I am surprised and disappointed, to say the least. Abecedare (talk) 01:15, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Jimbo does not edit anonymously anyway so that bit does not apply to him, and if you think the terminology is too strong please consider changing it, its an open to edit page. Thanks, SqueakBox 01:51, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

True, Jimbo doesn't edit anonymously. He prefers editing with his own user account.--RyRy5 (talk) 01:54, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

"Anonymous" here means "does not disclose any personal information" rather than "unregistered". Hut 8.5 18:03, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

His user page gives his identity. The cowardly bit is gone. doc Glasgow was a serious editor addressing the most serious issue wikipedia faces as it grows successfully, ie BLP. Thanks, SqueakBox 01:58, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

I have expanded on my comment here. And now, having writ, move on. Regards. Abecedare (talk) 02:33, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

What's to stop someone from taking the pledge with the real name, and then violating it by anonymous editing? -- Seth Finkelstein (talk) 03:42, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

What happens when someone pledges to stop drinking or taking drugs and then breaks that pledge? Same thing I would have thought. Thanks, SqueakBox 03:45, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Nothing really, and those who'd sign the pledge legitimately probably aren't a problem when they edit biographies either - but neither of these are really the point. WilyD 13:28, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm anonymous and I created the initial WP:BLP proposal. Was that ok? I'm a nice old retired man with serious health problems and I need to keep my stress levels under control. Does that make me "cowardly"? WAS 4.250 (talk) 00:23, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Request for Arbcomm for User:William M. Connolley

It has been brought to my attention ([1]) that you and William are acquanted. Currently (User:HooperBandP/Sandbox4), an Arbcomm case is being prepared to have his adminship removed do to some reasons. If it is true that you are acquanted with him, Arbcomm may be unwilling to rule even if he has broken policy as we believe. Even if we are wrong, we would love to have your input in the situation since it is of such a sensitive matter. We want the ruling fair and NPOV whether in support of us or William, and if you are acquanted with him, it may be best for you to atleast be aware of it. Hooper (talk) 18:01, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

As a note, this user has been canvassing several article talk pages about this, as per [[2]]. Jtrainor (talk) 20:47, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply. Its what I assumed was true but good to have for the others. Also, you are our celebrity, so don't be humble. You're to wikipedia what Chuck Norris is to WoW.com, and what Pedophilia is to 4chan. Now that I say that, I'm not sure exactly how good that last one is.... ;) Hooper (talk) 17:10, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Feedback to Jimbo Wales' korean news interview

Hi, I am a wikipediholic, I am Top 10 user in ko: wikipedia.

You are interviw with korean No.1 newspaper, korean No.1 consevative newspaper, The Chosun Ilbo. I read it.[3] [4] [5]

My feedback. listen, please.

Korean wikipedia's main problem is you.

Why? you know korean language? no.

Many korean user speak english well? no.

When some big problen is here, all users see "the president". you.

but you don't speak korean, we don't speak englsih.

So, we see 3 beurocrats. ko: wiki have only 3 beurocrats.

but, problem is...3 beurocrats!! :( dictatorial, bureaucracy, irrational. :(

2 beurocrats are came from other kroean own wiki. they are dictatorial. All admins are their party, their code, All admins are "democrats"!!

There is no diversity.

So, one basic user come here -> they rule him (dictatorial, bureaucracy, irrational) -> and, he is go out. never come again.

This is my private opnion. I use ko: wiki for 3 years, I edit over 10,000. I am Top 10 user.

How to solve?

I think...

Wikipedia:List of non-admins with high edit counts this article's korean version is ko:위키백과:기여가 많은 일반 사용자 명단

all user in there, make them all to administrator. all user in there, make them all to beurocrat.

and, admin groups argue meta:Polls_are_evil for their dictatorial, bureaucracy, irrational.

make precise "vote polcy" to ko: wiki.

and, make precise fair use polcy to ko: wiki. They attack beginner for no fair use. and they announce "legal" problem to begninner. In korea, "Legal" means so terrible. They send away begninner. so loose fair use rule is needed.

All admins and berocrats argue "no fair use!". EVERYONE!! :(

Make precise "problem solve procedure policy" to ko: wiki. they don't know how to solve. we don't know how to solve.

Etc...in ko: wiki, I feel so many reform. And, I need..."YOU", Jimmy Wales, EARNESTLY!!

Thank you for reading. :) -- WonYong^Talk 05:23, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Trifling thing...

Hi! It's great leaving a message to the guy himself... I've always loved Wikipedia and, thankfully, have no complaints. Question - gee, it's hard asking this without sounding like a desperate fan, begging with wide eyes and sweating like a pig - may you please sign my guestbook? If it's breaking some sort of policy, there's no need. I'm currently trying to collect as many signatures as possible, as a side hobby to editing. Thanks again! --^LaPianísta! 15:06, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

admin

you should make yourself an admin.--Altenhofen (talk) 19:49, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Jimbo can band user's from wikipedia, and a lot more things. He has better tools than admins I think, I mean, he created wikipedia. I think he'll be alright. Right Jimbo?--RyRy5 (talk) 19:52, 26 April 2008 (UTC)