Talk:University at Buffalo

James Starks

James Starks plays for the Green Bay Packers and is not listed under sports. Also, the sports section could be better organized. Also, Naaman Roosevelt for the Buffalo Bills. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.232.200.148 (talk) 23:36, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

"Flagship" status

15:53, 21 March 2007 (UTC) dropped the "flagship" status. Not true according to SUNY, as there is no official "flagship" campus. Any of the four University centers have equal standing under SUNY, and each can claim top honors in one category or another. Buffalo is factually the largest, and arguably the most comprehensive. But still, each of the other three centers offer undergraduate and graduate programs that Buffalo does not (likewise Buffalo has many unique programs, as mentioned in the article).

I went to UB, and I was under the impression that University at Buffalo was short for the official name, State University of New York at Buffalo. -James

I go to UB, and the university's website, and even SUNY's website seem to only refer to it as "University at Buffalo". "State University of New York at Buffalo" has been used at some point (i see it stamped on things like chairs or benches once in a while), but i'm not sure if it still is. -℘yrop (talk) 23:10, Dec 5, 2004 (UTC)

The Comprehensive Physical Plan

The first sentence appears extremeley unproofread - a total of 27,000 students in 160 years? Hm. Pirchlogan (talk) 20:05, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

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UB nomenclenture

The University of Buffalo predates the SUNY system by some 100 years. When SUNY was established in the 1950's, the name was changed to The State University of New York at Buffalo (SUNYAB). Buffalo State Teachers College became State University College, Buffalo (SUCB), an even less distinctive moniker by any means. Sometime in the late 1990's, The university centers began petitioning SUNY for more autonomy in operation of the university campuses. This has allowed UB to have more control over tuition rates, athletics, research grants, and capital projects. Part of this process is the de-emphasis of the SUNY portion of the naming of the campus. It was sometime around 2000 when all the signage around campus was changed to state the clearer and simpler University at Buffalo.70.16.37.152 17:30, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

I grew up in Endicott, New York and went to UB, and i've seen all sorts of insecurity about what SUNY schools are named. Right now, the school across the river is called Binghamton University, while growing up in the 1980's I knew it as SUNY Binghamton. Although my alma mater is now known as "University at Buffalo" (which i find somewhat arrogant), i knew it when i was going there as The State University of New York at Buffalo, a wordy moniker to be sure, but an accurate one. New York started their state university system much too late and now their attempts to distinguish themselves ring hollow and contrived.

My 2001 diploma reads State University of New York at Buffalo. Anyone have a more recent diploma? - James

Both are equally valid, which is irritating and confusing. Government and financial documents refer to it as the State University of New York at Buffalo. (Some non-governmental financial institutions refer to it as the State University of New York, Amherst, out of some sort of need to distinguish the two campuses as distinct entities. You have no idea how sad this makes me.) I believe that current diplomas now read "University at Buffalo," with "State University of New York" below the seal in smaller print. I am vaguely curious as to why you consider the "University at Buffalo" moniker arrogant, though, as I can't find anything particularly offensive about it, just as I can't see anything wrong with Binghamton University, or University at Albany (though it is awkward), or Stony Brook University. Mostly, I just wish they'd pick one term and stick with it... User:Tomlillis

My 2005 diploma says "State University of New York at Buffalo"; however, when I was a student I worked for the University Bookstore (North Campus), and according to administration, documents and wordmarks were labeled as the even less elegant "University at Buffalo, The State University of New York"...ugh. Now I live in Texas, and when people ask me where I went to college I just say "New York State University".

Update: I found the UB Visual Identity webpage with the naming conventions:

http://www.buffalo.edu/toolbox/visualidentity/elements_names.html

No. 1 (listed as the formal name) is University at Buffalo, The State University of New York; No. 2 (internal use and alumi) is University at Buffalo which sounds awful; No. 3 is UB, intended for extremely casual, internal use. Further, the page states that the name State University of New York at Buffalo is deprecated and should no longer be used. This begs the question, WTF does it say "State University of New York at Buffalo" on my 2005 diploma? This naming convention is pre-2005. I swear, they should just call it New York State University or University of Buffalo. Note that in Ohio, Miami University, University of Cincinnati, Ohio University, The University of Akron, and the University of Toledo are all part of the state system, but there is no reference to the State system. Why can't we just go that route?

No. 2 is a shortened version of State University of New York (SUNY) at Buffalo, so the at Buffalo makes sense. I myself am a student at UB, and if I have to write it on some kind of space limited form, I use something like SUNY at Buffalo, or just SUNY Buffalo. I think some of the confusion comes from the fact that there are two simmilary named schools, UB (University at Buffalo) and Buffalo State University, both of them SUNY Schools. University of Buffalo could be ambiguous, even though it makes sense to us. HeavyD14 03:49, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

- University at Buffalo

Yes, the name University at Buffalo does sound awful. I think the administration of the school had to try and find some middle ground between SUNY at Buffalo, which no one uses, and UB (short for University of Buffalo), which is used by most people. The name University of Buffalo has been around a lot longer (1846-1962) than University at Buffalo or SUNY at Buffalo. I'll stick with the wisdom of our forefathers on this one and keep using the name University of Buffalo.

How about this for a name:..... State University of New York at Buffalo

Every year we can shrink further the font size of "State" and "New York at" !!!!Truthunmasked 14:10, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

- "The name change was enacted to clarify the position of the component universities in the SUNY system." What exactly does this mean? What "position" needed to be clarified? - Lykaon

Well, I think it refers to the position of the 'University Center' of UB over the SUNY 'college' refered to as Buffalo State College, SUNY Buffalo or "Buff State." (aka 'Teachers College') Buffalo State is the other SUNY-aquired institution in Buffalo. It is a smaller, separate school, often confused with UB in name. With two SUNY-Buffalo institutions, it's easy to see why SUNY at Buffalo and SUNY College at Buffalo would be confused.

- Shouldn't the Victory march be changed to:

Fight, fight for the State University of New York at Buffalo
Be proud to fight for your dear Blue and White.
So Hit 'em high, Hit 'em low, Throw 'em high, Throw 'em low
Fight for your dear old Bulls. (Go! Bulls! Go!)
Cheer, cheer for the State University of New York at Buffalo
Our spirit will be with you 'til the end...
So play the game as best you can
For the glory of our dear State University of New York at Buffalo.

That way, we can still show that UB is one of the component universities in the SUNY system!

Truthunmasked 04:10, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

varied contributions

Hi, one of the contributers put an automatic edit on any contribution from me! This web page amounts to an advertisement. I wanted to put some discussion about U.B. into what is otherwise just a promotional page. Can someone include on this page something negative about U.B.? I mean the theme of wikipedia seem to have the idea of everyone contributing to each article. The only negative things on this page are in the talk section. Clearly, while my contribution may or may not have the right style to go with the rest of the article, someone else may be able to fit this in or to modify the style of the article as a whole to accompany such a more objective contribution. Further, it seems that one of the authors of this article has included automatic deletion coding into the page! Maybe that is a Wikipedia tool, but I don't think any contributions into what is presented as an open contribution page warrant programming techniques. Couldn't he just manually delete it? My contribution was not bad! I would include it here, but it would be deleted too most likely! Ok, after giving some people a chance to read my complaint, then feel free in a few weeks to shorten it to the main point that promotional pages in the wikipedia should have some usefull, and I emphasize usefull so it doesn't turn mean negative content, carefully edited to soften the harshness while retaining the idea of adding depth-- 02:14, 1 Mar 2005 (UTC)

You can make contributions criticising the school, they just have to fit into the article, be encyclopedic, and satisfy a neutral point of view. What you were doing was inserting biased essays into the article blindly, which was not appropriate. Please review Wikipedia:Policies and guidelines.

Criticism of UB would be a very good contribution to this article, however; for example, a discussion of the controversial decision in the '60s to build the new campus in Amherst instead of in downtown Buffalo and its effects on Buffalo would be a very valuable addition. -℘yrop (talk) 04:03, Mar 1, 2005 (UTC)

I did put a watch on this, but more for copyediting purposes than anything else. I have no vested interest in promoting the university, but I don't know if a lengthy discussion on how people felt about the placement of North Campus is appropriate here. The criticism relates more to the city in general than the university itself; as such it would probably be better suited to the Buffalo, New York article. My edits were specifically directed towards clarifying the roles and expansion histories of the two campuses, not towards squelching dissenting voices. At this point, I think the article would be better served by the inclusion of a broader discussion of the acquisition and expansion process in general. This would include the construction of the Ridge Lea shanty-school, the "Berkeley of the East" movement, the volatile political environment at the school during the 1960's and 70's and the subsequent miltary and federal law-enforcement presence, Project Themis, and so on.

Again, I assure you that I'm not trying to build a wikiadvert here. I'm having a hard time maintaining an NPOV here myself, as I have a very overwhelming urge to critically discuss the way the school is slowly abandoning the humanities and less profitable pure sciences in favor of Informatics and commercially-oriented research... Well, I'm willing to work on it, anyhow. User:Tomlillis

Agreed. The student unrest of the late 1960s, early 1970s would be a welcome addition to this article. Flyerhell 00:23, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

From the Horse's mouth

This page describes it all. The most formal name is University at Buffalo, The State University of New York. University at Buffalo is the less formal name, and UB is th eleast formal name and the preferred causal name.

http://www.buffalo.edu/toolbox/visualidentity/elements_names.html

"Although State University of New York at Buffalo is still an acceptable name, it is reserved for those instances in which the communication is directed primarily toward an international audience; as the international audience becomes increasingly familiar with our formal "University at Buffalo, The State University of New York" name, the "State University of New York at Buffalo" name should no longer be used." Cyferx 02:59, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

• In line with Wikipedia naming conventions (WP:NC) I am going to move the article to the full name as stated on the page linked above: "University at Buffalo, The State University of New York." The current page will, of course, redirect to the new, complete name. ⇒ BRossow ^T/_C 17:32, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Mascots

UB has 2 mascots, Victor E. Bull and Victoria S. Bull (http://www.ubathletics.buffalo.edu/spirit/mascots.shtml). I am not sure with the formatting of the page how to add these, but if they are not added in a few days I can do it. Flyerhell

It has been added Baboo

Sections

The University at Buffalo page is too messy and the Alumni list is half the size of the whole wiki. I think we need to make new sections and maybe create a List_of_University_at_Buffalo_People page.

ok, I sectioned off Athletics and Miscellaneous, somebody do History, Campus, Clubs.

Baboo

Most recent overhaul.

There's being NPOV, and then there's wackiness. I'm not going to launch into it myself without soliciting feedback, but the "Sprawl" section really needs to be incorporated with the history of the article and a general description of the division of the campuses. The complaining about the "lack of affordable housing" and the bus system also needs to be put into some kind of context. Most major universities have their own internal transit systems, believe it or not. I would know, since I spent a hell of a lot of time researching that fact last semester. The affordable housing thing is also questionable. I'm not an "invisible hand of the market" guy, but I really think it should be "lack of housing"--affordable or not, every housing unit is filled every year. Comments appreciated, anyhow. Tom Lillis 18:21, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

I just decided to check out UB's wikipedia entry today and agree that the "Sprawl" section needs some work. It is much too long (longer than the Academics section) and seems to belabor something that is not really going to be of much interest to outsiders. Tom is right that shuttle buses and insufficient housing are hardly unique to UB either. There also seems to be a disconnect between the student population cited in the "Sprawl" section, 50,000, and that in the fact box, ~27,000. The latter figure agrees with the UB website. --BCAttwood 14:49, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Agreed as well. It is not NPOV:

"UB has a total student capacity estimated around 30,000 total students, a number which is quite common among other “super university” schools. Though the school has never seen this many enrolled students, the design of UB is nonetheless accommodating of so many."

This is false. Even with the large amount of dormitories, UB does not have enough room to house every student. I am not sure about this year, but from the fall of 2003 on, UB has been housing students in local hotels.

"However, despite the division among academic discipline lines, the school cannot mask the fact that it is actually indeed two separate institutions displaced by several miles between them."

Two seperate institutions?

"Students on the north campus who find the isolation of Amherst, the suburb that surrounds the university, to be too stifling often venture into the diverse environment of the nearby city of Buffalo to enjoy its comparative diversity. Since most residents are not drivers, due to a variety of constraints, students from the north campus often find themselves isolated from Buffalo, despite being at the University at Buffalo."

This is COMPLETELY false. Busses run from North to South campus up until 2 AM over the weekend. A lot of students hang out on Main Street near south campus. Furthermore, South Campus is connected to the Metro, which many students utilize to take them downtown. Third, cabs run ALL DAY AND NIGHT between the North and South campuses. I don't know who wrote this section but I seriously doubt they ever attended UB. If a source is not presented for the "most residents not being drivers" idea I am removing it. I will work on this article tomorrow. Flyerhell 10:10, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

UPDATE: As promised, I have re-written the sprawl section to make it sound less like an advertisement for UB and attempted to paint more of an accurate picture of what the so called "sprawl" really is like. Let me know your thoughts on my additions/corrections. Thanks. Flyerhell 01:58, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

I'd like to comment on the housing situation. To the best of my knowledge, all residnetial students live in a campus operated facility. They do, however, at the begining of the semester, force some first year students to live in "over-capacity," meaning there are three people living in a two person room. I'd know, as I was in one of those rooms. This is to be expected, as they do room assignments before they have a final count. In most cases they are resolved within the first week.

The reason for less overcrowding is the construction of a nearby primarily UB student apartment complex. This seems to be an atractive option, as many have moved there. Aparently they are really nice, but they werent' held to the highest construction standards.

The only time I know of students being housed in a hotel would be after a fire in a residence hall, and durring finals week. They kick out anyone in violation of quiet hours durring that time.

Also, most of the residents I know here don't have cars here, but that doesn't keep us isolated by any means. Everyone knows someone who has a car, and there are always the busses. In addition to the north-south busses, there are UB busses that go to a nearby mall and supermarket. And there is the city bus system, I don't know much about its operation schedule or routes, but they do make stops on the campus.HeavyD14 23:02, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

I know for a fact that students were housed in local hotels in both 2003-2004 and 2004-2005 academic years, as well as having the OC rooms that you mentioned. I am not sure if they were there the entire year (I think I read somewhere that students were still at one hotel in the spring of 2005) and I am not sure if UB continued to use hotels during the current academic year. The new apartment complex that you speak of is most likely the massive University Village at Sweethome apartment complex. As this entire complex was booked by the middle of spring 2005, it makes sense that there is a lot more room available in the on campus dorms. Flyerhell 04:12, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

It was the Red Roof Inn and the students were there for the whole year :) Baboo

UB is a commutter school plan and simple. Main street area and the heights are chuck full of students there are even students as far off as Downtown buffalo. Last semster fall 05 they housed two students in a motel due to a fire.

A friend of mine was housed during the fall in a local hotel. As I am aware (its also included in some UB housing notices i think) that hotel rooms are used as overflow, much as the aforementioned 'overflow rooms'. These are often cleared within one or two months of the beginning of the semester, although it does vary from year to year. As for being disconnected from the city of Buffalo, its a threefold problem, one being the difficulty to get into the city (downtown) from the north campus (many students don't wish to travel around 40 mins on two transit systems to get there), the lack of the University/NAFTA supporting student transit (i.e. Metro passes like other local schools), and the lack of student awareness/apathy of Buffalo. I am referring to day access of downtown with this more than the more utilized nighttime access of pearl and chippawa streets. 128.205.209.78 (talk) 06:40, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Natural gas buses?

Since when do the buses run on natural gas? Did I miss something? (See the Sprawl section). I'll remove it if nobody can confirm it.

Since 2003ish... Baboo

If the buses run on natural gas, why are there articles like this in The Spectrum?

The sentence doesn't sound right anyway, so I'm going to reword it. -Varco 06:40, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

I don't know about the busses, but the university definately has a fleet of vans that run on CNG. HeavyD14 16:40, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

CNG buses are referenced as of 2001. The new contract for buses in 2005 included switching more. http://spectrum.buffalo.edu/article.php?id=665

Academics

Mathematics at UB have not been reduced to a supporting role. The department has many operations. My professor works for a software firm developing mathematical algorithms for graphics. Plus about 40% of the school's budget comes from companies for reasearch anyhow. Look, at Furnas Hall that whole building is reasearch. 69.162.218.114 10:46, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree, and have removed the statement and added a request for a citation to that section. -128.205.74.158 05:26, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

This is the first time I've felt obliged to add my two cents to a Wikipedia discussion. I, too, think this article needs some reference to the controversy over the bifurcation of campus. A general article about UB might not require it; but this article, which seems to celebrate the division, demands balance. I was at UB in 1981, as Squire Hall was closing; here we are, more than twenty years later and, some of us, continue to grumble. Of course, the ire at the division of the campuses was fueled by a perception that the choice to expand to Amherst was designed, in part, to quiet student activism, divide and exhaust students, and so on. Whether there was any truth to that, I can't say. Bottom line: in the twenty-some years since I left, I've never failed to mention the exodus to Amherst when telling my UB story.

Also, this sentence can't be correct: "Additionally, UB's role as a crucial internet hub for the eastern seaboard during the internet's inception cannot be understated." Do you mean, "overstated."

UB userbox

If anyone wants it, I have created a userbox for those who want to advertise their UB student/alum status on their user pages (it also automatically adds you to a category, which I can see I misnamed now, but whatever ... Daniel Case 23:33, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Coordinate

Does anyone know how to find the coordinates?141.155.144.95

Housing Images

I added a heading to clear up what the pictures were of, Ellicott. This seems to be a limited scope, UB has much more housing than just Ellicott. We either need to add images of the other buildings, or scrap the gallery totally as in its current form it seems kind of silly. HeavyD14 20:30, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Template and other pages

I created a template for the University's pages. I think we should consider expanding the amount of UB info there is out there. Take a look at University of Pittsburgh for an example. Pete4999 (talk) 22:51, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Commercial?

Does anyone else think this article reads a bit like a commercial? I couldn't find any critical comments on anything relating to this topic. Surely someone has something to criticize about SOMETHING here? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.77.20.178 (talk) 03:19, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Like a commercial in the sense that it presents a lot of facts about the university? I don't see many uses of unnecessary positive adjectives. The thing is if you want to criticize (and there is a little in the academia section) you need to back it up with something other than weasel words like "some students" or such, because "some other students" might think UB is all puppies and ice cream. Like if you had a link to a poll that showed that 65% of students hate riding the bus between campuses or think that campus is stark, desolate, and depressing 9 months out of the year, that would be fine.BCAttwood (talk) 19:08, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Unionized workforce discussion

This is antiunion cant, and as such, gratuitous reactionary drivel - socialism in faculty output ? Please. Also, adherence to basic standards of idiomatic English punctuation and grammar is suspiciously absent from this section. The only thing missing is a list of names of which "brilliant researchers" were "lost" to UB because of the evils of socialism. I detect traces of an axe being ground.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.206.137.172 (talk) 01:05, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Teachings at USA University of Buffalo State University of New York

The very puzzling fact, that the United States school system uses material from Poland's Ministry of Education, such as the internet websites [http:/info-poland.buffalo.edu/] or [http:/wings.buffalo.edu/info-poland] from the University of Buffalo State University of New York in a very propagandistic way might come as quite a surprise to many people.

According to University at Buffalo, The State University of New York Nicolaus Copernicus (the Prussian Mathematician- Prussus Mathematicus) was born in "Poland" [1] and the long history of Danzig is disregarded and merely described as Gdask Poland [2]. One can only wonder about the reason for the US University Buffalo to use Polish Communist era propaganda, without identifying it as propaganda.

Not only that but the University Buffalo also "teaches 20th to 21th century new wisdom to children (info-poland.buffalo.edu/classroom/copernicus/children)"

Sample from the Buffalo University New York website info-poland Nicolaus Copernicus (Mikolaj Kopernik) Nicolaus Copernicus was born in Poland. He is a famous astronomer. An astronomer is someone who studies the stars, planets and solar system. Copernicus lived over 500 years ago! He was born in the year 1495 [3].

This matter concerning the government of Poland teachings at University at Buffalo New York are repeatedly removed by User:Radeksz [4] , who calls the legitimate concerns "random stuff', "deleting trolling which is completely irrelevant to this article" (Nicolaus Copernicus or "completely irrelevant content, that does not belong on the talk page"

What are others (Americans ?) opinions (besides the onesided Polish, like the deletetions by Radeksz) about this matter? An Observer (70.133.65.7 (talk) 01:11, 2 December 2008 (UTC))

How to handle clubs and Greek Life

Two items First, i just went through and removed a random reference to a campus club, moreso because it was the only one of over 100 listed, and thought that it seemed to be kinda a push/ad for that club than anything else. But it does bring up a legitimate point. Id say that clubs in general have a much larger impact on UB than Greek Life (sadly), yet there is really no mention of them here. Now, as there are so many, should we go about listing them in this article, or should there be a different page covering Undergraduate Student Association and Graduate Student Association, complete with club listings/links?

Also, the greek life list does seem to be taking up alot of the page in a list; would it be better perhaps to have it its own sub article to improve the quality of the UB article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dtheweather9 (talk • contribs) 00:26, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

The content on the greek system as well as student organizations is often given undue weight in many university articles. Because Wikipedia is not a directory, I would recommend removing the list of greek organizations in its entirety and replacing it with a mention of how many fraternities & sororities there are perhaps mentioning if there are any unique local (non-national) chapters. Similarly for the student organizations, these are almost always not notable in any capacity (i.e., most universities have acapella groups, dance troupes, political groups, cultural and religious organizations, etc.). I would emphasize only those that are especially notable (especially unique and has received lots of coverage) or prominent (student newspaper, radio, tv, government). Madcoverboy (talk) 06:29, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

UB Seal

I feel like the UB seal on this page is very small. If you look at Miami University, Michigan State University, and practically all other universities, the seal is very big and is the icon of the University. I think we need to 1. get a different seal image because the one we have now is grainy and looks pixelated when enlargened and 2. make the seal BIGGER! DavidHarary — Preceding unsigned comment added by DavidHarary (talk • contribs) 17:26, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

Student websites

Another editor has repeatedly insisted on including in this article links to and text describing three websites: [5], [6], and [7]. I contend that these material doesn't belong in this encyclopedia article. This information doesn't seem to be significant enough to include in an encyclopedia article, certainly not without evidence of importance or significant interest (i.e. where are the references?). This is an encyclopedia article and not a directory of links related to this subject. ElKevbo (talk) 02:47, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

Agree with ElKevbo, they have no place in an encyclopaedia article. Mtking (talk) 03:27, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

External links should be kept at minimum per WP:UNIGUIDE. Preferably these should be the official websites of the university and the alumni organizations. The first two links do not need linking since they are just pages of a larger site which is already listed in the article. The third one doesn't merit inclusion since it's a forum. Moray An Par (talk) 04:01, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

Hello

The alleged "changes of unimportance" is actually significant both to the current students, prospective students and the general public, given that the University at Buffalo is undergoing dramatic changes under the "UB 2020 Flexibility and Economic Growth Act" These links are vital to insuring real-time information to Wikipedia, in fact the HUB was mentioned under the The Spectrum the university's paper http://www.ubspectrum.com/life/hub-premieres-with-mixed-reactions-1.2143983, these changes are significant, also the forum is crucial in communications within the Buffalo region and University at Buffalo in discussing and invoking changes in the "UB 2020 Flexibility and Economic Growth Act" In fact the recent incumbent president has discussed the vitality of this communication outlet http://www.buffalo.edu/president/blog.html and is a honorary member of the forum, I suggest all interested parties to first read "UB 2020 Flexibility and Economic Growth Act" before concluding your description on the editing. I am more then willing to comprise provided there is a better agreement to satisfy these significant changes within the Buffalo and SUNY University at Buffalo regions" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.89.254.191 (talk) 00:26, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Ah, ok - that makes some sense. It would have been very helpful and courteous if you could have told us all of that instead of edit warring.

With that said, I still don't believe these links or mention of them should be in this article. As an encyclopedia, we don't really need real-time information in most articles; in fact, it's often helpful or necessary to have some distance from a subject to help us better judge what is of lasting importance and what is not.

Additionally, please note that this is not a communication venue or hub for persons interested in this institution. We're not a media outlet or directory of web links but an encyclopedia. ElKevbo (talk) 00:59, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

While I agree that all contributions should be encyclopedic, well-sourced, and not pressing a particular point of view, keeping articles up to date is an essential task. The problem is that it takes a bit of practice to do such updating well. People new to Wikipedia focus on the information they are adding rather than how that information will fit into the entire article. The result can be a puzzle piece that sticks out rather than a smooth patch. Please don't give up on contributing to Wikipedia — just take some time to learn how to do it in an effective manner. Racepacket (talk) 08:45, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

Hello

I understand that some may argue against the alleged "directory of web links", however i assure you that once you understand the urgency and depth of these recent developments you will agree with the necessary addition of these links into the former article, I am aware that you may not desire "real-time information" however as you yourself pointed out, a encyclopedia should have information of "lasting importance" that are of significant value to the overall cultivation of knowledge, To a viewer interested in learning of said former article (in this case, University at Buffalo) then they should be informed of these recent developments (my previous comment about the development of (UB 2020 Flexibility and Economic Growth Act, of which I am also currently developing the article for) to decline them is to depreciate the quality of these web-pages, which many of us rely on! As i pointed out in my previous comment I am more then willing to comprise on some sort of middle ground, I do apologize for the editing war, it was not my intention in any way to come across as discourteous and I hope we can find some middle ground that does not leave the general public at a loss for information. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.89.254.191 (talk) 02:11, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

I understand your enthusiasm for bringing timely information to people interested in this university, but an encyclopedia article is not intended for promoting the subject, nor is it a tool to be used as part of a university's strategic plan. This article already provides a link to the university's main website, and the university is free to promote its planning and communication goals on its own site. I agree with ElKevbo that Wikipedia is not the appropriate place for these links. -Mabeenot (talk) 03:10, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

IP editors

I am pleased to see more people starting to contribute to this article. May I suggest that you create a signon rather than contributing as an IP address? I would also encourage you to become an active member of WP:WikiProject SUNY, which is a group of editors interested in improving Wikipedia's coverage of the SUNY system. Thanks again for your contributions. Racepacket (talk) 18:13, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

New photos 2011 Update

Hi all, I'm replacing old photos with newer, more vibrant looking photos of UB's campuses. They look really nice. Fyi, I've been editing this page for quite a while — Preceding unsigned comment added by Buffalofan4255 (talk • contribs) 04:50, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

File:5611 104554588778 102104268778 2236050 6740344 n.jpg Nominated for Deletion

	An image used in this article, File:5611 104554588778 102104268778 2236050 6740344 n.jpg, has been nominated for deletion at Wikimedia Commons for the following reason: Deletion requests June 2011 What should I do?
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Headline and Intro with Nomenclature.

Okay, the University says specifically that "It is not appropriate to refer to the university as the State University of New York at Buffalo, SUNY Buffalo, SUNYAB or similar variations."- http://www.buffalo.edu/toolbox/editorial/ub_glossary.php. Therefore, the heading intro title should not say "The State University of New York at Buffalo is...blah blah blah'. It should say, because of this quote right here- "The formal name of our university is 'University at Buffalo, The State University of New York'" that exact title right there. Even on extremely official documents, such as diplomas, it reads "University at Buffalo, The State University of New York". The of the University is right there, in front of our eyes. The "State University of New York at Buffalo" is not appropriate nor formal for anything or anyone to refer to. If anyone has any disagreements, please discuss it below. Do not change the heading until you have discussed and made and agreement with anyone who agrees with I just said. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Buffalofan4255 (talk • contribs) 00:26, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

Agreed. "State University of New York at Buffalo" should no longer be used at all in this article.Fruitful47 (talk • contribs) 00:31, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

I also support the use of "University at Buffalo, The State University of New York". I firmly believe that "State University of New York at Buffalo" is no longer needed per the concerns listed above. Darth Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 00:55, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

I am afraid that while the Official name of the university is "University at Buffalo, The State University of New York" then that should be mentioned in the lead, I have no problem with changing the name of the article to something else in keeping with WP:COMMONNAME. Mtking (talk) 01:11, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

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"Flagship"

What is need to show that this is in fact a Flagship Uni is a reliable sources that is independent of the University, if that can't be found, then it must be removed as per WP:V. Mtking ^(edits) 05:33, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

None has been forthcoming so going to remove, it should only be re-added when independent reliable sources can be cited. Mtking ^(edits) 21:03, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

Mtking, Here's your independent source: http://commcgi.cc.stonybrook.edu/am2/publish/General_University_News_2/Governor_Spitzer_Sees_Stony_Brook_University_As_Flagship_Institution_in_the_SUNY_System.shtml

Wow insults always work, however the Governor making the a political claim is NOT independent Mtking ^(edits) 20:27, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

That source merely says that the institution is "poised" to become a flagship. If the governor formally appoints the institution a flagship, let us know. Until then, the source doesn't say anything more than in one speech the governor opined that the institution may someday become a flagship institution if his plans or recommendations are followed. ElKevbo (talk) 19:17, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

Not necessarily. UB and numerous other sources site that it is a flagship institution. Here are more sources: http://www.jewelryne.ws/physicists-establish-dynamic-jahn-teller-effect-in-defective-diamonds/ http://www.insidecollege.com/reno/SUNY--University-at-Buffalo/1100132/school.do http://education-portal.com/articles/SUNY_at_Buffalo_-_University_at_Buffalo.html and here's the one straight from the University itself: http://www.buffalo.edu/about_ub/ub_at_a_glance.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.205.80.11 (talk) 03:44, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

If the claim that this institution is a flagship then surely you can do better than 2 websites that are of dubious value and exist solely to promote their clients, the institution's own website, and a spam blog. ElKevbo (talk) 03:51, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

Alright here's three more that I think may surprise you: http://www.suny.edu/facultysenate/DivAccessEquityExcellence.pdf http://www.suny.edu/provost/missionreview/mou/StonyBrook.pdf http://www.suny.edu/chancellor/pdfs/InsideHigherEd7-20-09.pdf — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.205.80.11 (talk) 04:41, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I am surprised that you would bring to our attention (a) a document that explicitly says that "SUNY does not have a flagship university" (p. 3), (b) a document that utterly fails to mention that Buffalo is a flagship (instead, merely saying that Stony Brook is "analogous to flagship institutions in other state systems," (p. 2), and (c) an interview with the then-Chancellor of SUNY articulating her rejection of the idea that the SUNY system should have flagship institutions. If these sources were intended to support the idea that Buffalo is a flagship university then you've completely undermined your case and you should stop wasting our time. If you had another objective, please enlighten me because I'm afraid that I missed it. ElKevbo (talk) 06:14, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

Agreed, nothing so far produced gets close to the requirements of reliable sources that are independent of the University. So to save time, what is not going to be acceptable here are any sources that are :

1. Are from the University;
2. Are from the State University of New York (SUNY);
3. Are from the Governor of New York;
4. Are from any branch of the Government of New York;
5. Are from Blogs or other sources that would not be considered reliable sources by the Reliable Sources Noticeboard.

Hope that helps, and stops editors wasting there time. Mtking ^(edits) 08:37, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

University Center

Alright be that way...Buffalo, SBU, Albany, and Binghamton are all flagships...but instead of flagship I'm going to put "University Center". You can't delete that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.205.160.157 (talk) 13:03, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

"University Center" is not a valid type, and is also not sourced - removed. Mtking ^(edits) 19:16, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

It is a valid type. Look here: http://www.suny.edu/student/downloads/Pdf/2012_Admissions_qf_stateop.pdf

It clearly says "Campus Name (by campus type)" at the top. And that is a publication of SUNY, the state system of New York, the same system that governs the University at Buffalo. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Davidhar (talk • contribs) 20:41, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

No it is not a type, and even if it was it would need those reliable sources that are independent of the University to show it was. Mtking ^(edits) 21:33, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

It says it right there that it IS a type. The "Type" of institution is needed in this case because there are three levels of SUNY schools: -University Centers and Doctoral Granting Institutions -State Colleges -Community Colleges.

It is needed in this case to clarify that UB is a SUNY Center. It says it even in Binghamton University, University at Albany, State University of New York, and Stony Brook University. Stop trying to say it's not because I am totally right in this case. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Davidhar (talk • contribs) 21:39, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

It is NOT what the type field is used for in the info box (see Template:Infobox university), please do not re-add until consensus exists for this. Mtking ^(edits) 00:22, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

Then tell me what "types" are appropriate and tell me why "University Center" is not appropriate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Davidhar (talk • contribs) 01:10, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

Firstly what is a "University Center", secondly who uses it ?, thirdly did you read the notes attached to Template:Infobox university as it gives examples there. Mtking ^(edits) 01:16, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

Indeed I did read "Public, private, four year, undergraduate, graduate, etc.". Other institutions, such as the Michigan State University use "Flagship", and other titles to specify a "type" of institution. A University Center is essentially a flagship school in the SUNY system. This is commonly understood throughout the northeastern United States and is seen as such. More importantly however is the fact that SUNY does not deny any University Center the right to call themselves a "Flagship". That is why you will commonly see it on official documents written by each University Center. Here is an example of that usage:http://www.buffalo.edu/about_ub/ub_at_a_glance.html

Now the point that I'm getting at is this; if a school such as MSU can use the term "Flagship", then UB and the other 3 SUNY Centers should be able to use the term "University Center" because a University Center is the same thing as a Flagship. The term "University Center" is SUNY's way of calling the school a flagship.https://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/25/education/25suny-t.html?ref=education — Preceding unsigned comment added by Davidhar (talk • contribs) 02:16, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

It's an odd term but it's well-supported by sources so as long as those sources are cited - here and in the main SUNY article - and the term is clearly and explicitly explained I don't see the problem. ElKevbo (talk) 02:45, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

It is not a recognised type of uni, where are the independent sources detailing what a "University Center" is. From what I can see it is a fudge for the SUNY system. Mtking ^(edits) 03:04, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

Yes, it is odd and it is a SUNY-specific designation but they are well within their rights to do that. But I'm not sure what your objection is to including this information since it's verifiable and seems important to understanding where this particular institution fits in the SUNY system. ElKevbo (talk) 03:34, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

It has no place in the info box as it is not an accepted type of Uni, it seems only to be used in relation to SUNY, and the only sources are non-independent ones. Mtking ^(edits) 04:32, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

Like I said, it is the equivalent of a flagship. The term "flagship" isn't listed in types either, but it became acceptable...so "University Center" has every right "Flagship" does. It should be listed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Davidhar (talk • contribs) 12:50, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

What is an "accepted type of Uni" and why would you insist on independent sources when the designation is an internal one? ElKevbo (talk) 14:55, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

Because of WP:PRIMARY, a uni can call it's self what ever it likes, but if others don't follow the lead it is not relevant. as for "accepted type of Uni", one that has it's own wp article. Mtking ^(edits) 19:10, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

I don't see why you would need an independent source for something that is just pure fact. Here's an independent source:http://www.bizjournals.com/albany/stories/2010/08/16/daily11.html

I also don't see why "University Center" would need its own WP article. If it's really needed though, I can simply make a WP article on SUNY centers :).

And 3 other universities call themselves "University Centers" as well: University at Albany, Binghamton University, and Stony Brook University. In this case...UB isn't the only university. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.205.56.139 (talk • contribs) 00:34, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

I have made a compromise edit to the wording, if you want it listed in the "Type" the clear intent of which is to only included recognised types of university and not this self-appointed type limited to just one state, the "Type" would have to have to have it's own non-redirected article. Feel free to create one by all means, however it is likely to be deleted or redirected in short order. Mtking ^(edits) 06:13, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

I made no such compromise and there is another wikipedia administrator (or whatever you call it) who agrees with me. This is a 2 against 1 scenario so stop changing the page already. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.205.84.130 (talk • contribs) 09:12, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

Please indent and sign your comments; it's very difficult to follow your comments otherwise. ElKevbo (talk) 19:01, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

It's not the university that has awarded itself this title, it's its system.

How about we (a) omit the title from the infobox (since it is so uncommon as to be virtually useless in the infobox) and (b) include the title in the lead with a link to the appropriate section in the main SUNY article.

Unregistered editor, it would be particularly helpful if you could flesh out the section in the main SUNY article that discusses the unique classification system used by SUNY. Last time I checked, it was a rather short section with few real references and little explanation. ElKevbo (talk) 19:01, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

Agree with ElKevbo, in fact that is exactly what I did with this edit which the IP editor undid - so reverting it back. Mtking ^(edits) 19:10, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

I would echo ElKevbo's observation about the lack of detail on "University Center", at the SUNY page, for the wiki-link to remain it needs to explain what it takes to be one etc. Mtking ^(edits) 01:36, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

The use of only Center is totally confusing, it needs to be "University Center" (in quotes) to make it clear that it is a SUNY designation. Mtking ^(edits) 21:17, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

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Images

Please be aware that images should only be used when they increase the readers understanding of the subject. They also need to be free to be used here.

Given the recent attempts to beautify this page with copyright images, if you wish to add any more images to this article, please propose it here so others can check that they are not a copyright violation and to check that consensus exists that they are suitable. Any added without clear consensus and/or whose copyright status is anything but clear are likely to be removed onsite. Mtking ^(edits) 19:25, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

Crest vs Seal

I have spoken to University Communications, themselves, and it is appropriate for wikipedia to use the crest instead of the seal. The seal is meant for only certain purposes while the crest is used for all other purposes. Because of that, the crest should be used within the article's infobox rather than the seal.