User talk:DePiep

		What a Brilliant Idea Barnstar
		For turning the trivial names of groups table in the periodic table article into a visual feast for the eyes Sandbh (talk) 13:43, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

		The Template Barnstar
		For repeated improvements on templates used in phonetics articles. Particularly admirable is the combination of seeking out explicit consensus and dutifully carrying out necessary changes once it is reached. — Ƶ§œš¹ [aɪm ˈfɹ̠ˤʷɛ̃ɾ̃ˡi] 14:51, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

		The Guidance Barnstar
		You're the hero of the day on this pickle of a problem. Thanks for the insight. VanIsaacWScontribs 23:50, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

	The Graphic Designer's Barnstar
	For your amazing work with the graph. It appears now better than what I thought of it to be before! With your learning ability, you're all up to be an awesome graphic designer, in addition to your template skills! Thanks, man R8R Gtrs (talk) 16:07, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

		The Socratic Barnstar
		Thank you for all your suggestion and opinion (as here or here) which are really very helpful. Tito Dutta (talk) 13:52, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

Request for comment

Hello! I saw that you edited in the past Template:Eastern name order and I'd like to invite you to intervene at Talk:Michael Szilágyi where there is an ongoing discussion regasrding its use. Thanks in advanceTranserd (talk) 12:13, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

Titles for articles on groups and periods of the periodic table

Sorry, DePiep. I have been preoccupied with other matters and could not answer your questions at Talk:Group 3 element#Requested move in time. It has now been closed. No doubt the process was valuable! Let's discuss it all again, with a broader framing and with wide participation. At the most suitable project page, yes? I am still busy; but do let me know when you raise the topic again. It's an important one; and I'm sure we all want to achieve an optimal set of titles.

Best wishes,

Noetica^Tea? 04:41, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for February 19

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Rail guage template

• About {{RailGauge}}

It is a very sore point with some eds that 'cape guage' is put against 3' 6" - it is a local usage in south africa and rarely used elsewhere, and never has been used in Australia or other places with large amount of 3' 6 rail - is it possible to make it 'conditional' - and not a 'universal' application? Thanks if you can help sats 00:49, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

I get your point, thank you. What you say is correct: use Cape Gauge name only in SA. Today, I am working on hundreds of pages, using WP:AWB. That is because I check the template {{RailGauge}} (my selection is about 2500 pages). So I can:

a. Take care of this next weeks. I can propose a nice solution (testing first). But that takes time.

b. Change something right now, manually. To do so I'd like to know which pages are wrong, now. Please mention them.

c. If there is a fire somewhere (a page spoiled or with red errors or so, absolutely wrong), call me any time.

-DePiep (talk) 01:07, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

No rush - no need to worry about which way to fix it - (a) sounds fine - just as long as it is not set in stone.. hey you deserve many barnstars - so few people are fixing up templates these days - more power to you... sats 10:44, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

Quite simple already: if you don't want the name "Cape gauge" to appear (because it is in America), then don't switch on |lk=on. Numbers only. I don't see what the templates should do different. -DePiep (talk) 13:41, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Category:Unicode character

Category:Unicode character, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mercurywoodrose (talk) 03:44, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

Graphics Lab header

Hi DePiep, you recently reworked the Graphics Lab header area. Fine job by the way. I take issue with a minor aspect however... the width of 80%. It seems unnecessary and at lower browser resolutions it causes the Eight Requests to bunch up. I can only guess that you did this so that the header stands out from the rest of the page a little, but I think it would be better at 95% or so. I would have taken the liberty of going through and making the changes myself, but out of courtesy figured I'd run it by you first. And seeing as you're the one who put it together, you would be more qualified than I to make the change... if you so agreed of course. – JBarta (talk) 17:09, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

Read it. Good point (very good, actually). Please allow me to respond later (as a promise). -DePiep (talk) 01:17, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

I set it to 80% because most of these pageheader boxes are 80%. See random this and this. This way the whoile column of boxes lines nice. Note that we cannot (easily) change the basic note bar width: that will stay 80%. So we'll get headers like this. I think there is a general idea about these pageheaders. On the other hand, the GL pages are not talkpages. That's all I know. I suggest you just try the 100% width, and see & hear the effect. You'll remember how chaotic the GL pages were a month ago, so from there everything is an improvement. -DePiep (talk) 13:37, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

I read [1] your reply above when you wrote it. I figured you were content to leave it at 80% and I haven't decided if I'm going to try changing it anyway. There's an old saying... when in doubt, do nothing. So for now I guess it stays. – JBarta (talk) 00:38, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

Thankx. Still, as you have read above, I won't oppose a 100% width. Why don't you do & propose? Go in there, young man! -DePiep (talk) 00:43, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

Template:User iso15924

Hi, you seem to have been most active on Template:User iso15924 so I thought I'd come to you first. Out in the wild I'm seeing a lot of this template being used to indicate ability at languages rather than scripts - see User:Kkhemet for an example. I'm no template guru but I imagine it must be possible to test that the parameter1 has only 4 characters and no more or less, and return an error message with a link to the list of official 15924 codes if not? As a secondary thing, it would be good to suppress any categories if the parameter looks faulty, or assign such user pages to a maintenance category, to save people like me having to worry about yet more red-linked categories.... Le Deluge (talk) 11:26, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

Good point. Also, I've been thinking that the template should recognise the name of the script ("Cyrillic" should be OK too for Cyrl). Will take a look later on. -DePiep (talk) 11:31, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

As a first approximation, I'd keep it simple - it's less important to recognise Cyrillic than to reject Spanish, so the 4-character test would be the way to go. I suppose you could do a look up for each code and its full name, but that is maybe getting a bit complicated for something that's at best a nice-to-have. I'm not sure how good Wiki templating is at regexes - testing the last three letters of the four to be letters and lower case would allow you to reject things like zho2 which is probably not common but I'm all for setting the filter as tight as possible.Le Deluge (talk) 12:18, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

Just noticed something else on User:Thekaleb - if a second parameter is not provided, there's no default value which at the very least makes for some ugly red-link categories.Le Deluge (talk) 13:25, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

Good line of thinking. I suggest you continue this on Template talk:User iso15924. I am not unwilling, but there might be more issues involved. Like: existing categoristion of userboxed pages. Over there more people will listen. -DePiep (talk) 19:57, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

Template talk:RailGauge

DePiep,
Please see my observation at the end of Template talk:RailGauge#14 Proposals. Peter Horn User talk 22:38, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

I did, and reacted. but hey Peter, trying to get things done indirectly, though, is not the way we operate. -DePiep (talk) 00:31, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

Hi

You asked on BabelStone's talk page about Han tu. If you're asking for unicode for the Chữ nho/chữ Hán character set it is just the same as traditional Chinese. In fact it is Chinese. If you mean the local chữ Nôm characters embedded in the Han tu article I'm afraid chữ Nôm is an unusual character set for locally adapted old Vietnamese-made characters that won't display without special font support. If you need any help, clarification, please give me a buzz. In ictu oculi (talk) 00:41, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

Just tell me what Han nom or Han tu script is in Unicode. Any Iso 15924 code, by the way? I restate that Han tu is not in Unicode. -DePiep (talk) 00:45, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

Chữ nho/chữ Hán is part of basic unicode set 1.0.0 for modern traditional Chinese ISO 15924:Hant, but I believe will also require ISO 15924:Hani due to use of obsolete ancient Ming characters.

Nôm is part of ISO 15924:Hani. Also VietUnicode, a Unicode font including chữ Nôm characters. It is hosted at http://vietunicode.sourceforge.net/. Downloadable TrueType fonts are available at http://sourceforge.net/projects/vietunicode/

Does this help? In ictu oculi (talk) 01:37, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

Hán tự (old-fashioned term), chữ Hán (modern usage), or just Hán, all refer to traditional Chinese characters, not to a character set peculiar to Vietnam. Nom includes additional characters that are given in CJK Extension B, as explained here. Han-Nom is Han plus Nom. No, you don't need any special downloads. Kauffner (talk) 14:21, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

It is quite understandable that the script needs a specialised font to show it correctly. But that is not the issue here, fonts are only invited to use Unicode. They are not defining Unicode. Next, as I read it, the script with ISO code Hant is completely within Hani (Script_(Unicode)). It is not am addition, Unicode has no name ("Alias value"). for it.

I start understanding that Han tu is completely represented within CJK characters code. In that case, to describe it we might add it to that (existing) script like "CJK (including Han tu)", much as it is also common to write "CJK (including Vietnamese)" or "CJKV". Like "English alphabet" is within script=Latin. If this is correct, there is no need to mention Han tu (or its alternative name) in the Unicode navbox. -DePiep (talk) 17:00, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

"Han tu" is the character set used write Classical Chinese. It does not include any characters specific to Vietnam. This word has been misused on Wiki for a long time now and I am trying to correct it. If you mean Sino-Vietnamese characters, that is Han-Nom. Many of these characters are in Extension B. But there is no standard Han-Nom character set and the Han-Nom Research Institute in Hanoi continues to catalog them and create additional glyphs. Kauffner (talk) 00:25, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

I just created a little chart explaining the Unicode status of Han-Nom here. Kauffner (talk) 13:55, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

Thank you again. I'll have to study all this. -DePiep (talk) 14:05, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

Converting Munsell colors?

I ran into a source that gives a set of distinguishable colors I'd like to use [2] but they're in a "Munsell color system" that is looking like a ridiculous hassle. Apparently in the halcyon days of the Internet these colors were actually colors, that could be understood and readily translated to RGB or any other format by a utility available from the site itself [3] but now they are said to be too ethereal to be known by hand or eye of man without paying money or getting a special time limited demo program, varying from machine to machine according to the gamma factor and who knows what else. There are little bits of shrapnel from people who seem not to have gotten the word [4] but I haven't found anything usable.

I think it would be great if this color convert module you've proposed were set up to handle these. But first I need to know how, and what the big malfunction is that has managed to scramble things so badly. Do you know anything about this? Wnt (talk) 17:36, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

First time I hear of Munsell color space. A first google exposed more problems than answers indeed. Still, I think there must be a conversion algorithm (because the color space looks well based). If we can find these caculations sure we should add it to the converter. Maybe this may be distracting: it was published in 1936 or so. These years, also CIELAB was developed (which is much more about human perception of color). If known conversion is to/from CIELAB, it might be more difficult (probably for another moodule). CIELAB not RGB is used to define and communicate television colors professionally. A different beast! Later more. DePiep (talk) 23:23, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

Not easy. Author Kenneth L. Kelly of your first linked pdf published in 1939. He might be the originator of the issue! As I mentioned, Munsell is one of these human eye based color spaces, the RGB technical route only entered dozens of years later (1931 had little internet around, or it must have been b/w I guess). Seriously, Munsell (and CIELAB, ISCC–NBS, RAL, ...) are color systems based on pigments and physical, calibrated references (like painted charts). That makes it very difficult to connect them to RGB. Munsell probably needs a route via some CIE base.

I found this with translation tables, but cound not reproduce "white" from your pdf. I'll look around. -DePiep (talk) 11:57, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

Legends

Have one more look: Template:Periodic table (pnictogens)

Wouldn't it be better to shorten the legend by removing the colored boxes from them? Think it's pretty clear anyway what the colors mean.

Think that a shorter legend always equals "better."

signing ;-) User:R8R Gtrs (no problem. Your wording is pleasant and recognisable -DePiep (talk) 21:17, 22 March 2013 (UTC))

re R8R. Maybe, but unlikely for me. Color usage (WP:COLOR) says like (my interpretation here): do not use color without explanation/legend. Never a color in itself should mean something: give it a secondary explanation (=legend, ...). So that is why I added the full legend to the PT groups infobox: If we use green in the element cell, we must explain what that green means.

On a secondary level (illustrating), I want to say this. All WP:ELEM editors know the PT by heart. You already know the green=non-metal association, right? But we write for the reader, not the (PT knowing) editor. Therefor, we must explain to that reader what it is about. I still feel very happy that I made these group sidebars this way. -DePiep (talk) 21:32, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

All I wanted to say is, color doesn't add anything. If we even had no color at all, they amount of info wouldn't be altered. Like a readers wonders, "Why is nitrogen colored green here?" He checks the legend, sees it stands for "reactive nonmetal" or whatever it will finally be, and thinks: "Hey, I already know that, that is noted right in the cell!" Color differentiation seems just a duplication. Do we even need it?

OTOH, some people won't be maybe get why the color is even green, even if it's easy to notice. Will it be really worse without color? Dunno. Maybe the amount of info given won't change, but it will be more difficult to read. I googled and found out there's such a thing as making design slightly more complicated on purpose; it's used to make things more informative. So as seems, we now have just enough information for none to wonder what anything stand for. I guess your version is the best possibility on offer.--R8R Gtrs (talk) 15:07, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

This I agree with. One minor point: the colors also appear in the micro-periodic table in the top. That would become unexplained then. but ok with me, we could throw out these colors (the category is in text already, below a picture we have a lot of space.) Would you drop a note at WT:ELEM? See Template:Periodic table (pnictogens)/sandbox. -DePiep (talk) 15:36, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

I dunno what's the best. Dropped a note here: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Elements#Group templates coloring: simplicity vs. complication--R8R Gtrs (talk) 19:16, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

over to WT:ELEM. -DePiep (talk) 23:14, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

CJK Ideographs template

Thanks for working on this template. I was going to get to that after I got through all the Unicode blocks (only 32 left!), but I'm glad someone else cares enough to clean it up as I upset the balance. VanIsaac_{WS Vex}^contribs 12:52, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

I have been working on that one every 6 months, for 3 years or so. Only now I got some overview myself. (Next stop: merge the split ones into fewer pages? - and check the recent font setting). -DePiep (talk) 13:11, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

Mind having a look?

I come up with more ideas. Two for now. Want to know if it's worth doing and doable.

Look at rhenium. Any article will do, this one is a random example. Our element infoboxes are damn big. You have to scroll it so far down to see it end. The reason why I'm writing at all is that, well, it's problematic to add images into the first section, cause the infobox is still in there. Even sometimes the second section is affected. Brrrr. Is it okay? If not, can anything be done against that? Two-column infoboxes? Pop-up sections (like templates in the end of again, rhenium, but also others)? Anything?

Also, look once again at ununseptium. The pics are horrifyingly arranged. I mean, it looks pretty when it's 800x600, but there are people like me who use 1600x900 (say if you don't have access to 1600x900, I'll add some screenshots, they're so easy to make). I actually want to center one image (the island one), but if it's 800x600, it can be only 575 px wide, and when this is turned into 1600x900, there's empty space to the left and to the right from it, just as big as the pic itself. Is it treatable? I'll be fine with anything that makes the pics not so packed.

Sorry if I'm bothering you with the problems too much, you just seem like a Wikidesign god to me, so I help you make the world a little better, these are only those I have no solution for.

--R8R Gtrs (talk) 20:18, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

Read. Will reply. Hey, I just saw you are in Moskov. -DePiep (talk) 20:37, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

Which/what kind of images would you like to add (that makes problems with the infobox)? Let's keep rhenium as example. indeed. -DePiep (talk) 21:02, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

Actuallly, I disagree with all of you here. Anyone can improve a WP page easily. -DePiep (talk) 21:27, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

It's a lovely city (with room for improvements), but the goddamn snow only begins to melt :(

Like if I wanted to add an image of the Rhine or Ida Noddack (she was a co-discoverer of rhenium) into the History section, I'd have to squeeze the text between the infobox and the images, which isn't good at all.

Many see a page, few notice a problem, fewer still know how to solve it, and even fewer fix it. I would've never made such a beautiful PT with names, for example.--R8R Gtrs (talk) 19:05, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

The PT with names sandbox sometimes has irregular group widths, so it is not OK yet. (in my Safari browser, for example). For images, see Alkali metal I say: nicely arranged. Even if we make the infobox half its heigth, the same problem is there. Namely: better make a nice arrangement yourself. Maybe use left-side pictures. Ah, and take care of your city. For me to visit in the future (I am not Napoleon minded). -DePiep (talk) 01:43, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

FYI

Hello D. Apologies for intruding on your talk page but I wanted to make you aware of a Tom Lehrer item I came across a couple years ago. This [5] has a CD of some of his songs AND it also contains a DVD with several clips of Lehrer over the years. The DVD also has a concert that Lehrer performed in Oslo. It is a wonderful treat and I wanted you to be aware of it. Cheers. MarnetteD | Talk 23:05, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

spamming? -DePiep (talk) 23:07, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

No I hope not. I was just trying to make you aware of on item that you might enjoy. However, if this causes offense please feel free to remove the thread with my apologies. MarnetteD | Talk 23:16, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

No problem (it was about the link). I enjoyed the song, and many other songs of him. And I enjoy science. Maybe will research your hints later on. You knew "harvard" rhymes with "discovered"? ;-) -DePiep (talk) 02:58, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

Yes but you have to pronounce both words with a Boston accent - H-ah-vard and dis-c-ah-vered. Another one of the wonderful play on words that he did. It would have been interesting to be in one of his math classes when he went to being a professor full time. Enjoy the rest of your week. MarnetteD | Talk 03:08, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

Yes, that is one of the funs. Will listen again. Enjoy. -DePiep (talk) 03:23, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

From trivia to highlight

Thanks! Yes, I am happy with the result too. -DePiep (talk) 13:53, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

CJK Ideographs Extension C

Sometimes it's so screwed up it hurts, doesn't it? VanIsaac_{WS Vex}^contribs 22:55, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

Yep. trying. -DePiep (talk) 22:56, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, it's still screwed up. The unicode chart template needs to get remade, and everything else just needs to transclude it. The unicode block article shouldn't change. They conflated the small CJK chart templates with the large ones back in 2010, which has caused all of this mess. VanIsaac_{WS Vex}^contribs 23:22, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

I asked this. Could not move them without adminship. Wait. -DePiep (talk) 23:28, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

Holy crap, it's just gone surreal. JPaestpreornJeolhlna just edited the block article, and it appears correctly. The problem is that the template it trascludes is just a redirect back to the article. I literally have no idea how this is even possible, and as far as I can tell, the unicode chart information has been pulled out thin air. VanIsaac_{WS Vex}^contribs 00:25, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Ok, apparently, they had a cached version of the template, and it ended up recognizing the self-transclusion. I think I've got it all sorted out, and I've asked ANI to check for any attribution problems. VanIsaac_{WS Vex}^contribs 00:32, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

So I've just asked JPaestpreornJeolhlna to discuss any changes to extension C articles or templates here before doing anything, just until we get all the kinks worked out of what happened. I'll do the same, and I need you to do it too. That way we're not screwing each other up. Ok? VanIsaac_{WS Vex}^contribs 00:36, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Please see my response at WP:ANI, and keep in mind that I'm not accusing anyone of doing anything wrong. Nyttend (talk) 01:31, 9 May 2013 (UTC)