Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Tea Party movement

Main case page (Talk) — Evidence (Talk) — Workshop (Talk) — Proposed decision (Talk)

Case clerk: TBD Drafting arbitrator: TBD

As this case is currently open, no changes to this page should be made. Any unauthorised additions will be reverted.
If you have evidence you wish to present, please post it at the evidence page. Proposals may be made at the workshop.

Case Opened on 23:17, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
Case suspended by motion at 14:25, 1 June 2013 (UTC)
Case unsuspended at 22:32, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

Watchlist all case pages: 1, 2, 3, 4

Please do not edit this page unless you are an Arbitrator or Clerk, or are making yourself a party to this case. Statements on this page are copies of the statements submitted in the original request to arbitrate this dispute, and serve as verbatim copies; as such, they should never be changed. (In the case of lengthy statements, an excerpt only may be given here, in which case the full copy will be added to the talk page—where any statements by uninvolved editors during the Requests phase will also be saved.) Any evidence you wish to provide to the Arbitrators should be added to the /Evidence subpage.

Arbitrators, the parties, and other editors may suggest proposed principles, findings, and remedies at /Workshop. That page may also be used for general comments on the evidence. Arbitrators will then vote on a final decision in the case at /Proposed decision.

Once the case is closed, editors may add to the #Log of blocks, bans, and restrictions as needed, but the other content of this page should not be edited. Please raise any questions about this decision at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification and Amendment, any general questions at Wikipedia talk:Arbitration Committee, and report violations of remedies to Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement.

Case information

Involved parties

• KillerChihuahua (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) (initiator)
• North8000 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Arzel (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Malke 2010 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Goethean (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Arthur Rubin (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)
• Darkstar1st (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Phoenix and Winslow (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Xenophrenic (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• WLRoss (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• The Four Deuces (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Collect (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Requests for comment

• Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents/Tea Party movement; looking for community input

Preliminary statements

Statement by KillerChihuahua

• Note: I've never filed an ArbCom case before so if I screw up, it's purely accidental - just let me know and I'll fix it, thanks - KillerChihuahua 05:54, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

Tea Party movement (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) is on community article probation. I was asked on 18 February to take a look by User:Goethean, who had been accused of poor behavior (specifically, WP:TE) and wanted a second opinion from an uninvolved admin (see here). I looked, couldn't find anything objectionable in his edits, so I asked the accusing editor to provide a diff here, but as you can see by following the link, I got reams of vague accusations but not a single diff. I hatted the accusatory accusations on the article talk page [1] (my first ever edit there) and advised the accusing editor, North8000, to either provide diffs, or cease the accusations (basically put up or shut up.) Then I added the TPM article to my watchlist. Less than a week later North8000 was making uncivil comments and personal attacks on article talk page.[2] I posted on his talk page asking him to be more civil and I added a reminder on the article talk page that the article is under probation and in only a couple of hours North8000 told me I'm involved, Arzel insulted Goethean again and misrepresented him, and Malke 2010 basically told me I'm Goethean's meatpuppet in order to enable Goethean to bully people - the exact phrasing was "you're here at the behest of goethean who apparently wants to bully editors he doesn't agree with. You, like goethean are failing to assume good faith"[3] There have been repeated instances of BATTLE and NPA from North8000, Azrel, and Malke 2010. The environment is toxic. I took this situation to ANI (as Tea Party movement; looking for community input) , now at the sub-page HERE. So far, there have been multiple views on a number of editors, several editors have added to the "Proposed topic ban" lists (several with no evidence at all), and including North8000 calling for my desysopping, and Arthur Rubin calling for me being topic banned for BATTLE because I brought the issue to ANI. I think this one is going to to take an ArbCom case to make any headway.

Supplementaries and replies

Roger, I'm not in a dispute. I'm an uninvolved admin sending up a flare. The issue is one of several editors exhibiting severe battleground behavior, and making the TPM article too toxic for others to edit. The article is under community probation, but that hasn't worked at all. I think the behavior of Arzel, Malke 2010, and especially North8000 need examination; I believe they are holding the article hostage to their views and attacking and accusing anyone with whom they disagree. Goethean asked me to take a look; I tried to caution and warn the editors who were exhibiting the poor behavior but the reaction was so hostile and accusatory that I took it to ANI, where it got even worse. They reject any editors and any sources which do not promote the Tea Party movement, to the point that the New York Times and MSNBC were dismissed as non-RS - rather snidely, too - by Arzel and Malke 2010. KillerChihuahua 06:16, 25 February 2013 (UTC) Adding, I have five total edits to the article talk page; Feb 19, 23, 24; all in my capacity as an uninvolved admin. None to the article. KillerChihuahua 06:36, 25 February 2013 (UTC) Arthur Rubin was added to this case because he asked for sanctions against me in this topic area - "A complete topic ban, including a ban on discussion, administrative actions, and discussion of adminstrative actions. Your bringing this "report" here reflects a battlefield mentality which would best be removed from Wikipedia.". If he's asking for sanctions, seems appropriate to add him to this case so his evidence can be considered. KillerChihuahua 12:41, 25 February 2013 (UTC) Risker, the discussion is linked in my first sentence, at "is on community article probation." - apologies if that was unclear. I got that link from the Talk:Tea Party movement page. I haven't been able to find any probation page such as we set up for Sarah Palin here, or Men's rights movement here; I don't know if there is one. There is an editonotice here. KillerChihuahua 12:49, 25 February 2013 (UTC) You might want to note the final line in the editnotice, that "Violations can be reported at WP:ANI. " - which is precisely what Arthur Rubin wants to sanction me for, oddly enough. KillerChihuahua 12:57, 25 February 2013 (UTC) Comment: While I sympathise with those who wish to leave this at ANI, in the short time between posting there and filing here, there have been calls to topic ban 9 editors, a call to desysop me, several editors calling for the issue to be sent to ArbCom, 7 supports and 5 opposes (one of them mine) to "shut this down". IOW, it went off the rails really fast, and that's why I brought it here. KillerChihuahua 13:42, 25 February 2013 (UTC) Update: NE Ent has unclosed the ANI sub-page thread, and there is activity there. KillerChihuahua 13:48, 25 February 2013 (UTC) (This is in response to Rexx's statement, but to the Arbs): I would prefer Arbcom accept this case; I think there have been serious problems with the behavior of some of those who have been active at TPM, and I also know the differences between community probation and ArbCom sanctions. Most of you know I enforced probation on Sarah Palin and now on Men's rights movement. It was done well; a much stronger consensus at ANI and a subpage with a chart to track who had been notified (not warned, we use notification) and a place to record sanctions. The TPM has no such page; but worse, it has no admins willing to babysit the article - until me, and you see what has happened here. I'm facing not just accusations of "involved" from the parties I've warned, there is an admin calling for me to be sanctioned for even trying to help on this toxic cesspit. On probation since 2010, I have found zero instances of anything being done about problems there. It's like the editnotice was added, and then things went on as before. If the article is under Arb probation, it can be seen at AE, which is always watched. In the past I have argued against that on some articles, but in this case, I think it might be warranted. I do think some of the editors on TPM should be looked at by Arbcom, but of course if you choose not to, please at least do pass a motion or two so other admins and myself can set up a better probation and enforce it. KillerChihuahua 18:46, 25 February 2013 (UTC) NW, I do think replacing the community probation with standard discretionary sanctions would be helpful. I also think your "ban, topic ban, admonish" would be helpful. KillerChihuahua 01:12, 26 February 2013 (UTC) You could also follow RexxS's suggested course of action. The current probation is set up wrong, but I can fix it, I do have experience with that. KillerChihuahua 03:25, 26 February 2013 (UTC) Count Iblis, this is a behavioral issue. Mediation is for content disputes. Mediation does not handle NPA, TE, and so on. There is nothing to mediate in this case. KillerChihuahua 12:13, 26 February 2013 (UTC) If I thought there was a snowballs chance in hell of mediation solving the issues at this article, I would not be here. KillerChihuahua 12:47, 26 February 2013 (UTC) North8000 seems to be very adamant that this is a dispute between the two of us. There is no dispute between us, but that aside - if that is his view, then he is saying he called for me to be desysoped because of a dispute. KillerChihuahua 13:35, 26 February 2013 (UTC) Mr Chihuahua brought me my tablet. I may not be fast to respond (I am still in the hospital and they're still doing tests) but I do have access. Puppy (talk) 23:02, 26 February 2013 (UTC) Arthur: I don't see how this is an improvement over your earlier assertions. I not only haven't misinterpreted or misunderstood consensus, I haven't said anything about content at all, let alone about consensus. And your shift from calling for me to be topic banned for misunderstanding some unspecified policy, to calling for me to be topic banned for supposedly misunderstanding some unstated consensus (when I've said nothing about such a thing) is still calling for me to be topic banned for an alleged misunderstanding. This is absurd. You have no diffs, because there was no such comment, whether accurate or a misunderstanding; and your call for a topic ban is not only baseless, it wouldn't even hold water if I had misunderstood something. We do not topic ban for misunderstandings. Puppy (talk) adding: you need to stop making noise about the ANI subpage, it is only evidence you didn't bother to read my opening statement here, where I said it was at a sub-page and gave the link. I also left a link here on Talk:Tea party movement. Puppy (talk) 12:27, 27 February 2013 (UTC) NE Ent, that would be a benefit, but it is emphatically not the only reason I brought this here. Puppy (talk) 14:38, 27 February 2013 (UTC) AGK, not only is this not a two party dispute, I'm not even sure who you think the parties are. Please re-read the statement I have given, and the ANI subpage here, and/or feel free to ask questions. I will illuminate as much as I am able, but I thought I had made it very clear that it is a complex situation, and I brought this here because I think ArbCom is the right venue due to the complexity. If it had been North8000 alone, I would probably have started an ANI thread titled "Proposed topic ban for North8000" and done with it, or simply blocked him myself and gone on blocking him repeatedly until he either learned to edit collegially or wound up indeffed by default. I did not; I titled the thread "Tea Party movement, looking for community input" because it is several editors, not two. I in fact named the three (here on the RFAR) that I thought needed their actions examined. There may be more. This is not a two party dispute between Goethean and North8000, nor between Arzel and Goethean, or Malke 2010 and anyone, or even Arthur Rubin or North8000 and Xenophrenic, although one of them certainly called for Xenophrenic to be topic banned and he is involved in editing that article. In hindsight, I should have added his name to the case; not because I have seen anything in his actions to cause me to think sanctions are in order for him, but rather because he could give valuable evidence. Obviously it is not a dispute between North8000 and myself, since I have no dispute with him, and never did have any dispute with him (or any editor here, except long ago on far different articles.) There are at least a half dozen editors involved; I named the three I thought were causing the most serious issues. I concur that North8000 is the most serious problem at this time, and topic banning him would be helpful. It will not, however, resolve the entire problem. Should you choose that solution, I forsee many problems to come on TPM and other right-wing US political articles; anyone who gets a "pass" this time may well feel vindicated and justified in further battleground behavior. Well, I didn't mean to say so much, but dang, Anthony, I am really surprised anyone could read even just my first statement and somehow come away with the idea that it is a two party dispute. My communication skills must be going down the toilet with my health. KillerChihuahua 22:13, 2 March 2013 (UTC) AGK, thanks in advance for your patience here. I didn't expect to have to provide evidence until and unless the case were accepted. I am digging through diffs, but before I finish, is this covering the behavior of the editors on US politics as I originally listed the case or am I confined to Tea Party movement only? - KillerChihuahua 19:11, 3 March 2013 (UTC) Procedural question I was digging through history and think I erred and left out an editor who should have been included in the Involved parties - what is the correct approach to add an editor? Thanks in advance. KillerChihuahua 15:14, 4 March 2013 (UTC) AGK et al; I have no problem if you wish to focus on the TPM; however I will almost certainly be submitting evidence from other articles to illustrate more clearly the battleground approach of those editors. KillerChihuahua 14:15, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

Statement by North8000

There is an important lack of clarity and important flaws in the listing of participants in the formation of this, but if the current fact-free shit-storm at ani were to go even one inch further it should go to Arbcom (or possibly to mediation). (So "kill it all immediately" is also a good choice.) A thorough analysis (vs. the fact free mess that is occurring now) of what has occurred will show that I did ZERO wrong; if anything against me continues even an inch further I demand that thorough analysis. Any AN/ANI that is on a vague complaint (with contemplated sanctions) turns into fact-free disaster, and this one certainly has. POV warriors do not view POV warriors from the opposite side as their main targets. Persons who carefully, credibly and persistently work to bring the article to the neutral center are far harder to get rid of and the main threat to their POV agenda. A good way to spot fact-free ones is posts to the effect of "this just shows how bad North is" instead of "North did this: (insert specific)" I'm one of those and some of the most infamous of them (mostly not from this article) have showed up at the ANI with basis-free negative "assessments" of me as a part of their battle. And I am confident how any actual careful analysis (with the best hope of achieving that being Arbcom) will end up. However, beyond that, here is is where the clarity is needed.

• If this is about the current shit-storm, that is basically 98% a two person dispute, me and KillerChihuahua. (looks like it may be over now) And it is generally NOT at or about the TPM article. The article was and is chugging along in its average state of going nowhere. A look at two threads on my talk page (User_talk:North8000#Tea Party Movement, POV pushing, and TE and the one after it) tells 80% of the story and the solicitation thread at KC's talk page another 5% of it. Another 5% would be analysis of the (lack of) any specific basis for opening the ANI thread. A thorough analysis (vs. the fact free mess that is occurring now) of what has occurred will show that I did ZERO wrong; if anything against me continues even an inch further I demand that thorough analysis. KillerChihuahua, without basis, quickly dismissed the validity of the TE concern (the review which was ostensibly the reason Goethean was soliciting people) got into a battling mentality, incorrectly used their imprimatur in their battle, and baselessy escalated it into the shit-storm. With Geothean (via soliciting) probably being the largest in the other 2% involvement. So the list is flawed. And the idea of having one of the two involved disputants formulate it is also not a good idea, although I commend KC for closing the ani and bringing it here. Possibly a mediation between the two of us would be even a better idea. (but it looks like it may be over now)

• If we are talking about the tussles at the article in recent times, (e.g. 1-2 years) the list is also malformed. Malke (who has been absent for a long time) should not be on it. And Xenophreninc, who has, by a lion's share, been the most involved should be on it. And KillerChihuahua was not involved until recently.

• The most productive thing for Arb Com to take up is the overall intractable mess and strife at that article. The inevitable proximate finding will be that Xenophrenic primarily and Geothean secondarilyy have dominated the article via TE and prevented its Wikification. (And maybe that I said "this article is a total disaster" too many times.) But I consider even that to be an effect, not a cause. But for the root cause this article is merely a poster child. It is flaws in policies and the system that been the ultimate cause of practically ALL of Wikipedia's articles on contentious topics being unstable, strife-ridden junky articles. Any findings that would come out of tackling this one as a "poster child" would do immense good for Wikipedia.

BTW, in case anybody is wondering, my RW politics is libertarian, not conservative, and which is in conflict with conservationism on about 1/2 of issues. More importantly, that is irrelevant; we check those hats at the door when we edit wikipedia. A careful review of my discussion at the TPM article will confirm this successful separation. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 12:48, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

@KC you may be half right, so I should clarify. The TPM article was and is just chugging along in its usual normal sad state. IMO your ANI post was a volley as a result of a dispute between you and me which then picked up a life of its own as a mindless fact-free shit storm. The dispute is mostly right here User_talk:North8000#Tea Party Movement, POV pushing, and TE and speaks for itself. Since as it shows I had already repeatedly disengaged, and it takes at least one to have a dispute, if you say that there is not currently a dispute between us then there no longer is one. So all that's left is the fact-free basis-free shitstorm which arose from it. North8000 (talk) 20:56, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

On of the few things that can / would help on articles that have long term difficulties (until we can fix the policies the enable those problems) is for a person to objectively make an extensive long term analysis and form conclusions. If an issue is spotted, but not where it merits disciplinary action against any individual, just pointing out what has been happening at the article that can tend to reduce those problems. Oh wait!......that's me, and that's what I did.....so conservatively that I took two years to make sure (and I bet it will be the best thing that happened to that article in years) .......and look what happened. What a great system. North8000 (talk) 14:29, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

If this gets accepted, step 1 should be a thorough analysis, then a discussion, and then decisions. I am seeing comments here which are trying to skip the earlier steps and guess at or imply the final steps, which defeats the purpose of the Arbcom process. North8000 (talk) 15:55, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Statement by Arzel

My primary comment to clear up a false statement that KC has continued to make against me. KC's statement They reject any editors and any sources which do not promote the Tea Party movement, to the point that the New York Times and MSNBC were dismissed as non-RS - rather snidely, too - by Arzel and Malke 2010. KillerChihuahua 06:16, 25 February 2013 (UTC) is simply false. I never said that the NYT or MSNBC were non-RS sources.

My part in this endevour began because an editor added to the TPM agenda the agenda/defintion from the point of view of a person outside of the movement. I simply moved that sentence to later in the section with the reasoning that the movement should define itself first. I then made the following comment.

"It is written as an opinion of the writer. Who says that this writer gets to define the Tea Party? Why doesn't it belong in the media section? It is formed from a media outlet, what makes the NYT special in this regard? Why not include ALL of the media opinions in the definition? Arzel (talk) 19:03, 23 February 2013 (UTC)"

I would ask that KC provide a link where I said that the NYT and MSNBC were non-RS. I did not remove the information, and I am getting a little sick of this crap.

Additionally, I fail to see how questioning whether the actual movement should have first say in their agenda is problematic. Arzel (talk) 21:41, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

Statement by Malke 2010

The AN/I case has been reopened. The AN/I thread was less than 24 hours old and I'd like to see it continue before coming here. I think posting here right now is premature. If the situation changes and this is the venue then I will come back and make a statement and include whatever diffs are necessary.Malke 2010 (talk) 15:48, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

First, let me start off by saying I did not call KillerChihuahua a meat puppet. [4] Nor did I question the NYTs as a reliable source. My comment about the MSNBC and the NYTs was based on the objection to the NYTs opinion piece. In the past, I have always relied on the news coverage by the NYTs because they have very strict fact checking and they are reliable. But the opinion pages are not RS.

As to my comment that KillerChihuahua refers to, when I read the exchange between North8000 and KillerChihuahua, it came across to me that KC wasn’t listening to North8000. While I felt KillerChihuahua made some good points, it seemed to me that the two of them were winding each other up. And her comments seemed biased towards Goethean which only made things worse with Arzel then commenting. I think North8000 reacted the way he did, and Arzel then commented as well, because KillerChihuahua seemed to them and myself, too, to be excusing Goethean’s last comment to me which was the one North8000 was reacting to. (Here is the diff with both Goethean's comment to me, my response to him, and North8000s comment: [5]. As I made clear on the AN, I'm not defending North8000s reply. I thought the exchange was over and was not at all happy with his comment.)

That made KillerChihuahua seem not uninvolved as she was claiming, but rather very much involved. And I reacted to what seemed to me to be unfair advantage for Goethean. I’ve been on Wikipedia long enough to know accusing someone of meat puppetry is not welcome and certainly never tell that to an admin.

And so my comment came in the context of defending North8000 for what I perceived to be a lack of fairness, but certainly not meat puppetry. As it turned out, KillerChihuahua and North8000 had already had an exchange on his talk page. She never came to my talk page with any concerns of meat puppetry or anything else.

I felt the AN/I was premature as cooler heads could have prevailed. North8000 is not an unreasonable editor and I’m certain that had they both just stopped commenting, things would have picked up on a far better note the following day.

I don’t edit the Tea Party Movement anymore. Specifically, I became disenchanted after numerous run-ins with Will Beback and Dylan Flaherty, both now banned from editing Wikipedia. If the page is in a sad state now, it wasn’t always like that. As Xenophrenic, who was editing back in 2010 with me and several others could tell you, we had a far more collegial atmosphere in comparison. Once the aforementioned editors appeared, sometime in the fall of 2010, things changed dramatically. A few editors left immediately as the atmosphere was stiffled by the presence of a dominating administrator who made changes at will with virtually no discussion. I could not see the point in continuing especially after some of the encounters with Dylan Flaherty on my talk page that went beyond the pale to the point where he was banned from my talk page (but not blocked which seemed very unfair to me at the time.) In the end, it was more baggage than seemed reasonable to be carrying for a voluntary editor. And since then I've restricted myself to random edits and writing and editing legal articles.

I think North8000 was simply frustrated, being a more conservative editor, by the other-side-of-the-aisle bias that exists on Wikipedia. He was looking for KillerChihuahua to acknowledge that Goethean had made an uncivil comment but instead she defended it. Fireworks ensued. If I've offended her or Goethean in any way, I certainly apologize as I did on the AN/I. Malke 2010 (talk) 17:39, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

The whole exchange is here:

[6] first comment by Malke 2010

[7] reply by North8000

[8] reply by Malke 2010

[9] link given by Goethean

[10] reply by Malke 2010

[11] reply by Goethean

[12] reply by Malke 2010

[13] reply by North8000

@Count Iblis - You make an excellent point. The TPM talk page revolves around content disputes that fall along idealogical lines. I can go back and find diffs for you to arguments but as a quick example, one side wanted to show that the TPM came about as a 'response' to the election of Obama, while the other side claimed it was grassroots and all about the money. Arguments over petty, silly 'news' items such as an incident in Maryland where a man claimed his outdoor barbecue grill was sabotaged by tea party members because he was an Obama supporter. Xenophrenic fought like crazy for that and anytime it got deleted, he put it right back.

You can ban all the the editors there right now and a new group will come in and do the same. I like your analogy to the school teacher keeping the students focused on the work. This is why I believe ArbCom control of the article like it has over The Troubles articles, will turn that page around. I could be naive about this, but I've edited a bit on The Troubles and things got sorted out between editors and without the incivility that occurs now on the TPM talk page.

These are my recollections since I've not been editing there in a long time as an active editor and I've not gone back to sort the archives but as I recall, the problem with the Tea Party Movement is that it was put on probation and then ignored by admins. There was an admin editing there, Will Beback, and the other admins would not reign him in. Will Beback really unsettled that page, as did his co-editor Dylan Flaherty. It was after Dylan started editing warring, and full disclosure everybody there did some of that including me, that the page got put on probation. Dylan is the one who really got things rolling in that direction with the page getting locked several times. After the article got put on probation, it got ignored by the admins because Will Beback was there. If ArbCom had been in control of things, all that disruption would not have happened, and I really believe editors would have settled down and focused on really establishing a collegial talk page to sort things out.

As it is now, it is mired in incivility and obstruction. And there are editors there now whose behavior is just on the edge of true consequences for the things they say and do. They dance right on the edge of 3RR and personal attacks. And that behavior is the source of the obstructionism. And when an admin shows up, what is he to do? Even if he can see the editor is sailing close to the wind, all he can say to the other editor is, "I can't find any violation."

Typical exchange on the origins of the tea party.[14] Goethean also informs the other editors this study will be in the article, despite their protests. [15] Behavior disputes: [16]

Here is an example of cooperation and positive comments despite Dylan Flaherty. This is also with the help of the mediation cabal, which I believe I suggested. [17] As I recall, it may have been derailed by Dylan in the final stages. My point though is that these same editors are able to work together on this page, and civily, if there is some oversight.

Statement by Goethean

My goal at Tea Party Movement has been to help ensure accuracy, neutrality and the use of reliable sources. There were lots of edit wars and battleground tactics at the article before I arrived, during the time that I edited the article, and edit wars have continued after I disengaged from the article a few days ago.

On 18 Feb, User:Xenophrenic and I were accused by User:North8000 of tendentious editing. The reason that User:North8000 provided as evidence of my (alleged) tendentious editing is that I removed a reference to a 2007 Ron Paul rally as the origin of the Tea Party Movement. No sources have been offered which explicitly connect that rally to the Tea Party Movement, which is generally thought to have originated in 2009. Arthur Rubin, who very often takes the side of User:North8000, seems to agree with me that the rally does not refer to the same tea party as the article covers.

In response to User:North8000's accusation, I contacted two high-profile and completely uninvolved admins, User:SlimVirgin and User:KillerChihuahua, with whom I had had a long disagreement at the Human article several years ago ('05 - '06), and with whom I have had very little contact since. I contacted them because I was genuinely interested in discovering whether I had violated policy, and I figured that two admins who had no connection to the article would be the best people to help me answer that question. — goethean 16:51, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

Statement by Arthur Rubin

I quite agree with all parties that the article is in sad shape. However, it appears there is significant disagreement as to which parts are inappropriate or inadequately covered, but, until recently, discussions have generally been civil. I see few, if any, violations of WP:BATTLEFIELD, but there may be some WP:TAGTEAM edits (which, as far as I know, are completely uncoordinated, and almost certainly in good faith.) In terms of my specific edits, my impression is that there is an effort to add anything negative about any person connected to any organization in the TPm, whether or not relevant, even to the person. I've made some effort to remove material I consider undue, from unreliable sources (until I see consensus that the sources are reliable), misquoted, or irrelevant. As for the NYT and MSNBC being "unreliable", I would like to see specific diffs, but at least one of the NYT references was to an editorial, which is not reliable for statements of "fact", only for notable opinions.

I'll supply some diffs, later, if there is anything potentially indicating I've done something wrong other than stating that KC has misinterpreted policies, guidelines, and individual edits, and suggesting, at ANI, a topic ban at ANI, only because there is as much evidence for one against KC as against some of the other proposed editors. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 07:44, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

On consideration, I don't think KC has misinterpreted policies. He has misinterpreted actions by a number of editors, and possibly misinterpreted consensus as not to note that thee two editors North8000 mentioned, as well as others, were edit warring against consensus in a couple cases (although, in the Ron Paul case, they seem to be correct, but for the wrong reason). — Arthur Rubin (talk) 10:59, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

@ RexxS. I disagree. Whether or not KC has improperly taken sides, his interpretation of Wikipedia policies and guidelines editors' actions is wrong. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 19:49, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

@Question: There are comments on the Arbitrator section proposing suspending any sanctions until there is progress at ANI. I can't find the ANI section. I also can't find, in Talk:Tea Party movement, a summary of the active content disputes, unless it's in the (ignored) section which I started. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 19:56, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

I see the subpage of ANI is still there, but not linked. Discussion is still occurring there, but, I don't know if all the parties are aware of it. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 20:22, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

@Followup. I'm afraid I over-reacted. Still, I don't see how an unbiased analysis could produce any conclusion but that Goethean sometimes "discussed" policy, but was never willing to follow it unless it agreed with his attempts to WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS. There are a few editors who have been WP:TE from time to time, but among those active recently, only G was unwilling to follow consensus once established. I have doubts about North8000 being WP:CIVIL. Most of the other editors named are on the edge of the matter (on the TPm, anyway), and have few, if any, violations. I do apologize for saying KC should be banned from the subject; it's clear she doesn't understand what's happening, but that is not a reason for a topic ban. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 22:16, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Preliminary decision

Clerk notes

This area is used for notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).

• Timotheus Canens' vote takes the tally to a net four to accept, and starts the 24 hour minimum clock to opening a case. — ΛΧΣ²¹ 03:02, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
• I have volunteered to be the lead clerk with Callanecc (talk · contribs) as a trainee. Do any of the parties object to this? --Guerillero | My Talk 01:39, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

Tea Party movement: Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter <10/0/0/0>

Vote key: (Accept/decline/recuse/other)

• Comment: @KC. Could you briefly summarise the actual dispute here please?  Roger Davies ^talk 06:04, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
  • Accept,  Roger Davies ^talk 07:58, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
• Could someone please provide a link to the discussion that resulted in the article probation? Thanks. Risker (talk) 12:41, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
  • Thanks to those who ensured the necessary links were present and clear. I agree with my colleague Timotheus that simply shuttling this off to discretionary sanctions and arbitration enforcement is simply shifting the burden from a committee of 15 to a tiny handful of admins, of which only one would be ultimately responsible for a decision; this is not fair to either those whose behaviour is reviewed nor to the few administrators who are willing to carry out AE. Community sanctions have already been tried; are they sufficient? Are they working at all? If not, I am inclined to accept this case. Risker (talk) 17:20, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
    • Accept. Risker (talk) 19:15, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
• Holding off on voting for a day or two to see if any progress is made at ANI. Will evaluate at that time. Newyorkbrad (talk) 19:26, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
  • Accept. I've waited a week rather than a day, but I don't see much progress being made. My instinct is that this case might wind up being resolved as some people have already predicted, but except in the clearest situations, I'd prefer to open a case to examine the evidence rather than adopt a remedy based on my instincts. If the case is accepted, all parties are reminded that the focus will be on user misconduct and what remedies would best assist out goal of creating a reliable, neutral encyclopeida, and not on the underlying real-world political disputes. Newyorkbrad (talk) 22:48, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
• @KC: When this was brought up on the mailing list last night, I wrote, "We could probably write the proposed decision for such a case now: discretionary sanctions, ban, ban, topic ban, topic ban, admonishment." Do you think that ArbCom replacing community article probation with discretionary sanctions for the area by motion would be a helpful step? That would allow the case to return to ArbCom for closer inspection only if it fails. NW (Talk) 00:53, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
  • Accept. NW (Talk) 00:04, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
• One of the things I criticized as an AE admin is the Committee's relatively recent tendency to slap discretionary sanctions on a topic and call it a day, leaving the bulk of the work of actually figuring out who's deserving of sanctions to the less-well-equipped AE admins. It would be hypocritical for me to support a simple DS motion here. If we are going to do something here, I would accept a full case. T. Canens (talk) 19:54, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

By less well equipped, do you mean not having direct access to CheckUser and Oversight permissions? SilkTork ^{✔Tea time} 11:30, 28 February 2013 (UTC)

They do not have the luxury of time. We have months in which we can systematically review someone's conduct. A thread at AE generally lasts a few days. T. Canens (talk) 11:48, 28 February 2013 (UTC)

Is haste built into AE decisions, or can the admins there decide to take more time to consider a matter? I am aware that outside of AE if a matter is considered serious and complex enough, a RfC is initiated, and those typically take 30 days. Is the haste because of potential ongoing disruption to articles under discretionary sanctions? Outside of AE, I am aware that if a matter is complex enough to require time to consider, that an article is locked down until the matter is resolved. I am not an AE admin so these are genuine questions - if it is felt that AE admins are operating in a restricted manner compared to non-AE admins, I think it's something we should be seriously looking into, because we would want to be enabling AE admins rather than restricting them, or over-burdening them. SilkTork ^{✔Tea time} 10:06, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

Well, it's not built in, but 1) like most sanctions of the non-arbcom variety, people tend to bring up the "preventative not punitive" mantra if the sanction is separated from the misconduct for too long, and 2) if you let an AE thread drag on for too long, it tends to get filled with assorted walls of text, most of which are of questionable relevance, but all of which have to be read. As a result, you'll get very, very few admins who would be willing to look at it. Moreover, it's really a massive undertaking to review a lengthy and bitter dispute with dozens of diffs as a single admin, well beyond what we could reasonably expect from our administrators. I tried doing it once, and it was not pretty at all; the second time an equally massive thread in the topic area popped up, we passed the buck back to ArbCom. In the end, it is this Committee's responsibility to resolve intractable user conduct disputes, not say "hey admins, here's some shiny new tools, now go resolve the dispute for us". T. Canens (talk) 13:34, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

On the other hand, we are supposed to let the Community handle things if we can. I'm still inclined to give discretionary sanctions a shot and if it doesn't work, we can take on a case then. Sandstein's idea seems like an interesting one. I've thought about it before, and I can see it working if the community is fine with us using this case as a test vehicle. NW (Talk) 16:27, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

Discretionary sanctions has nothing to do with the Community. It is, and has always been, a Committee process. Simply passing discretionary sanctions does nothing to return the dispute to the community; it merely shifts the actual, hard work to the few admins working at AE. T. Canens (talk) 17:04, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

I don't think discretionary sanctions is passing the issue back to the community, I think it's the Committee's attempt at reaching a solution. There is a limit to what the Committee can do. We can return the issue back to the community/decline; we can ban; we can give warnings of various sorts; and we can issue sanctions which are then enforced by the community - which would mean someone who takes an interest in the case, the user, or in the topic, or who, as part of their volunteer work, are willing to keep an eye on ArbCom sanctions and enforce them as required. I would feel a little uncomfortable about not utilising sanctions because of a concern that such sanctions would overburden those who have volunteered to enforce them - that would then limit what options are available to us: we would be limited to either ban, warn or decline. Sanctions are an important part of what ArbCom does. If there is a concern that sanctions are now getting difficult to enforce, perhaps we can have a RfC on this to find a way of making it less burdensome. I'm not sure that it should influence our decision in how to deal with this particular case request. I think we should keep active all options until the matter has been more thoroughly discussed. SilkTork ^{✔Tea time} 16:39, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

• Accept as a case. I would be open to a motion authorizing DS in the topic area for the duration of the case. T. Canens (talk) 01:18, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

• Accept in some form. I'm not exactly against the idea of just turning the DS knob and seeing what needs doing in three months, but something, and I'd slightly lean towards that being a case (shunting this towards AE is suboptimal), is needed here, as the topic area is just not working. Courcelles 06:21, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
• Accept. I've been researching the dispute at greater length, and I don't think I can stand by my earlier reading of this as a low-level dispute. This dispute has been raging for quite some time, and the imposition of community-based general sanctions in 2010. Nothing I've read since this request has been filed convinces me that further community review is likely to lead to a tempering of this dispute, nor do I think the community can easily tackle this dispute (without the investment of a disproportionate amount of editorial time). My original comments on this request are here. AGK [•] 18:50, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

• I'd prefer to keep this case narrow in scope, and have us only examine the Tea Party movement. Omnibus cases are difficult to resolve and more difficult to conduct; and a case concerning "U.S. politics" would so broad in scope that it'd certainly be an "omnibus" case. I suggest to my colleagues that problematic editing on pages will only be arbitrated if they are brought to us as part of a separate request for arbitration. AGK [•] 19:45, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

• I'm still waiting for something to be resolved at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents/Tea Party movement; looking for community input, though I suspect, as someone has hinted above, that when a problem is referred to ArbCom, the community might lose interest and motivation in attempting to resolve it. I'm interested to see that, as well as topic bans being proposed for what appears to be the cast list for a Cecil B. DeMille film, that increased sanctions are being proposed. As community sanctions are listed on the same page as ArbCom sanctions, I'd be interested to hear what in effect would be the difference between the community imposing further sanctions and ArbCom doing it. Whichever way it goes, somebody will have to make an assessment and then carry out the appropriate sanction. If the concern is that existing community sanctions are not working on this topic because some individuals are not respecting that and/or because the situation is more complex than can be decided under pressure, but that making them ArbCom sanctions would simply be shifting the problem to another group of individuals who would also be unable to make the appropriate assessments, are the Committee being pushed in the direction of handing out topic/site bans - either now by gut-instinct motion, or in three months time after examining the contribution history of that Cecil B. DeMille cast list?

I am concerned at the response to KillerChihuahua's attempt to sort out a problem, and, whatever else comes out of this, I'd like to see that users who respond inappropriately to reasonable attempts by uninvolved volunteers (admins or otherwise) to resolve problems are reminded that such behaviour is counter to the Wikipedia spirit, and erodes the project. It is a wearisome, unpleasant and thankless task resolving conflicts - those of us who attempt it do get tired of it. We need to support those who still have the energy, interest and dedication to help resolve problems - otherwise, as with AE admins burning out because they are being asked to deal with too many sanctions, so we'll see dispute resolution volunteers giving up, and then the warriors will take over the encyclopedia.

If the community discussion doesn't go anywhere, then I think we need to take this case and look carefully at the conduct of a number of people. SilkTork ^{✔Tea time} 18:20, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

Accept. The community discussion has clearly stalled. SilkTork ^{✔Tea time} 10:30, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

CartoonDiablo, I'm not sure where it would be "better" to comment, nor am I sure whose solution would be "better" - there are people who believe that only ArbCom can solve this situation because some users have ignored an admin attempting to remind them of a community sanction, and so an ArbCom enforced sanction is needed. I am hesitant to turn too quickly toward ArbCom, as I feel that each time a community resolvable situation is given up to ArbCom, the community loses some of the belief that the community can resolve issues. While some members of the community still believe that the problem can be resolved without ArbCom, I will support and applaud and encourage that - in the same way that I want to support and applaud and encourage admins like KillerChihuahua who attempt to resolve problems. We are a collaborative community who have together formed our rules and procedures, and we have created a community to be proud of. Working collaboratively we have created this encyclopedia, and we handle on a day to day basis complex issues. Let's hold our heads up, and let's not lose faith in ourselves. Certainly we need a body for truly intractable issues, or simply where the community have exhausted attempts at resolution. I'm not sure, yet, though, that the community are exhausted, and I for one am willing to wait. ArbCom will be here if needed. But I'd rather not rush into that yet. SilkTork ^{✔Tea time} 22:56, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

• I've had a skim read through the relevent pages and I believe that a case is necessary here. Accept Worm^TT(talk) 14:58, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
• Accept, it seems a full case is needed here. Carcharoth (talk) 23:49, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Interim decision: Suspend case

1) The Tea Party movement case is suspended until the end of June 2013 to allow time for the Tea Party movement/Moderated discussion to attempt to resolve the conflict regarding the Tea Party movement article. Pages relating to the Tea Party movement, in any namespace, broadly construed, are placed under discretionary sanctions until further notice. The Committee will reconvene on 1 July 2013 to determine if the conflict has been resolved; and if not, what further steps the Committee should take.

Passed 8 to 0, 14:25, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

Interim decision: Reinstate case

Further to the above, the Arbitration Committee reinstated proceedings for this case on 2 July 2013.

Announced on 22:32, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

Final decision (none yet)

All tallies are based the votes at /Proposed decision, where comments and discussion from the voting phase is also available.

Remedies

All remedies that refer to a period of time (for example, a ban of X months or a revert parole of Y months) are to run concurrently unless otherwise stated.

Enforcement

Enforcement by block

0) Should any user subject to a restriction in this case violate that restriction, that user may be blocked, initially for up to one month, and then with blocks increasing in duration to a maximum of one year. Appeals of blocks may be made to the imposing administrator, and thereafter to arbitration enforcement, or to the Arbitration Committee. All blocks shall be logged in the appropriate section of the main case page.

Per the procedure for standardised enforcement provisions, this provision did not require a vote.

Log of blocks, bans, and restrictions

Any block, restriction, ban, or sanction performed under the authorisation of a remedy for this case must be logged in this section. Please specify the administrator, date and time, nature of sanction, and basis or context. Unless otherwise specified, the standardised enforcement provision applies to this case.