Talk:Investigative Project on Terrorism

Islamophobia banner

There is a consensus that the Islamophobia banner does not present a NPOV violation. You can see this consensus at Talk:Investigative_Project_on_Terrorism/Archive_1#RFC:_Does_the_use_of_the_Islamophobia_template_in_this_article_violate_wikipedias_policy_on_NPOV.3F Serialjoepsycho (talk) 01:33, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

Greg Barrett source

This source is clearly coming from advocacy book the publishing house is not scholarly and the author is not expert on the topic.Can someone can explain why it should stay in the article as it give undue weight that IPT somehow connected to Islamophobia.--Shrike (talk) 07:06, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

The editor that put that in is not currently active on wikipedia. They were wanting to cover CAP's position but use a secondary source. Serialjoepsycho (talk) 07:55, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

The information seems to be in Islamophobia in America: The Anatomy of Intolerance as well, which looks like a better source. We can replace it. –Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 18:38, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

Do you have a page number?Serialjoepsycho (talk) 18:43, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

Unfortunately it's formatted for ebook on Google Books so it's hard to find a proper page number, but here's a link [1] - that's the footnotes, but there's also a page where it comes up. I'm able to find more hits when naming Emerson rather than IPT, since it seems to be sort of a one-man op. –Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 18:49, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

My brain isn't working right now? You wouldn't want to swap the source would you?Serialjoepsycho (talk) 18:55, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

Let's see what Shrike thinks, since it was s/he who was unhappy with the Orbis source. –Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 18:56, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

Sounds good.Serialjoepsycho (talk) 18:59, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

Shrike, the entire article has major problems because of the unreliable sources, not to mention issues with WP:NOR, and WP:SYNTH. An experienced editor can see the violations immediately by looking at the infobox. The IPT article is nothing more than a stub in dire need of improvement, or deletion if there aren't enough reliable sources to make it Wiki worthy. Roscelese further validated the need to merge and delete this article in her statement above...I'm able to find more hits when naming Emerson rather than IPT, since it seems to be sort of a one-man op. There simply aren't any reliable sources to validate anything in the IPT article.

In my recent request to merge parts of this article with Steven Emerson, the ANRFC reviewer, Sunrise, made an important closing statement: Note that this close does not evaluate whether the articles are compliant with policy (e.g. WP:NOR); it would be a good idea for the editors here to resolve these issues, but they would only have become relevant to the merger question if so much of the article was noncompliant that nearly all of it had to be deleted, and arguments to this effect have not been presented. On the topic of canvassing, in my opinion the messages were indeed non-neutral, but none of the editors joined the discussion here so it did not affect the outcome. Sunrise (talk) 19:29, 24 July 2014 (UTC) See it here [2]

Concerned editors cannot ignore the fact that there was no legal non-profit entity known as The Investigative Project on Terrorism in 1995. The name is a misnomer, and the misinformation is being perpetuated by inaccurate information on Emerson's own self-published site, [3] wherein it states IPT is a non-profit research group founded by Steven Emerson in 1995. I have cited secondary sources that substantiate the nonprofit's non-existence in 1995, and the controversy surrounding that claim. The actual legal name of the non-profit research group is The Investigative Project on Terrorism Foundation, which was neither founded nor legally organized until 2006. As editors, it is our job to maintain accuracy and cite reliable secondary sources which I have done. The IPT article is riddled with violations, and they must be corrected. During the years prior to Emerson organizing The Investigative Project on Terrorism Foundation, there was simply Steven Emerson, a CNN reporter, and self-proclaimed terrorism expert. He organized a think-tank referred to as the "Investigative Project", which he also ran. I have cited two different published secondary sources to validate the information, so no original research was involved. I began a corrected version of the article for the sake of accuracy to replace the current embarrassment titled IPT. See it here: User:Atsme/Investigative_Project_on_Terrorism_Foundation. Soon after I announced my intent to improve the article, two bad faith redirects were initiated, including Investigative_Project_on_Terrorism_Foundation and The_Investigative_Project, both of which are in violation of WP:SYNTH and WP:NOR. Bottomline, if the IPT article cannot be improved in a collaborative attempt, it should be deleted. Atsme☯^Consult 21:15, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

Are you sure you don't want to try to canvass more editors here before you start? Do you really want to have this conversation be transparent? The last person you canvassed you attempted to have them discuss this article in your sandbox. Bad faith redirects? They are all other known names for the organization in this article. MAybe you don't understand what bad faith means. You see your efforts to canvass other users as good faith. You see your attempt to merge and delete this article while privately planning to later recreate it as good faith. You see your effort to avoid the normal tranparency of editing wikipedia as good faith. Yes I don't think you understand what the two mean. Have you considered using the wikipedia help desk? OR the teahouse? I can get you a link.

Why lie exactly? Tell us about your noble effort to improve this article? OR rather your effort to white wash the article. Your effort dating back to March. Why merge and delete and then move to recreate and under a different title? Oh yes, The Islamophobia banner. You want to remove it but you don't know how to get a consensus to do so. Nice Straw grasping by the way. But this isn't a one man operation. Lorenzo Vidino was the deputy director of the investigative project in 2007. As you should distinctly recall Pete Hoekstra is with them. In "Blood from Stones: The Secret Financial Network of Terror" Douglas Farah also points out that it isn't a one man show. You should drop that straw and move on to your next one.Serialjoepsycho (talk) 22:03, 18 September

2014 (UTC)

Read WP:Collaboration, and stop spewing nonsense. Atsme☯^Consult 15:29, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

• Atsme, I've often been in your position of unsuccessfully trying to delete an article because it seemed non-notable or because it seemed largely to overlap with another article. But since the consensus was not to merge this article, we all must work with the article as it stands, rather than refusing to discuss the issues because the discussion didn't go the way we wanted it to. Please don't attempt to derail a discussion of sources. Serialjoepsycho, if you wish to continue engaging, I suggest doing so in a new section or on a user talk page, so that we can continue discussing sources for the CAP report here. –Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 16:36, 19 September 2014 (UTC)