Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Football League

Please contribute to a discussion on amending MOS language with respect to date formats

Hello - there is currently a discussion underway at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Dates and numbers#Date range redux to come to a final resolution the way dates for club tenure in infoboxs are displayed (e.g. - with a club from 2001–2007 or 2001–07). If you have an opinion one way or the other, please take part. The value in coming to a final resolution (either having language added to allow 8 digit date spans for this purpose or expressly forbidding it) is that it would provide certainty to these cases and stop needless reverting of this format one way or the other. If you do take part, please be sure to ground your arguments/opinions in fact, Wikipedia precedent and real world examples as opposed to preference only as this will help the project make the right call. There are thousands of articles (touched by thousands of editors) that use summary club tenure information in infoboxes, so there is clearly an advantage to settling it in a clear manner so all can comply. Thanks! Rikster2 (talk) 04:25, 25 November 2013‎‎ (UTC)

Harvey Salem

• Harvey Salem (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

A recent IP edit broke the height in the infobox for the above (if the value is correct, the wikitext should be height_in=6+1/2). There are no references, and the NFL.com link is broken. I seem to recall that WP:BLP articles must have a reference to be kept these days. Is it worth trying to save this, or should it be deleted? Johnuniq (talk) 05:16, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

Persondata has been officially deprecated

Persondata has been deprecated and the template and input data are subject to removal from all bio articles in the near future. For those editors who entered accurate data into the persondata templates of NFL players and other bio subjects, you are advised to manually transfer that data to Wikidata before the impending mass deletion occurs. Here are two examples of Wikidata for football players: Dan Marino] and Tim Tebow. If you have any more questions about the persondata removal, Wikidata, etc., please ping me. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 12:45, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

Steve Weatherford's weight

An editor has repeatedly changed Steve Weatherford's weight from the weight stated by NFL.com and the Giants' official roster, claiming personal knowledge based on a Snapchat photo. [1][2][3] As far as I can see, this violates WP:BLP as well as our consensus of following the official information for player infoboxes. Scrutiny and opinions by other NFL-experienced editors would be helpful. --Arxiloxos (talk) 19:39, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

Normally, the weight listed on the team's roster is more up to date that the one on NFL.com. That being said, sometimes an article will focus on how a player has lost/gained weight, and features the player themselves making the statement. In that case, I think it's fine to update the weight (with a source.) This case seems to be "original research" though, which of course, should be reverted. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 20:11, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

Copyright Violation Detection - EranBot Project

A new copy-paste detection bot is now in general use on English Wikipedia. Come check it out at the EranBot reporting page. This bot utilizes the Turnitin software (ithenticate), unlike User:CorenSearchBot that relies on a web search API from Yahoo. It checks individual edits rather than just new articles. Please take 15 seconds to visit the EranBot reporting page and check a few of the flagged concerns. Comments welcome regarding potential improvements. These likely copyright violations can be searched by WikiProject categories. Use "control-f" to jump to your area of interest.--Lucas559 (talk) 22:46, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

Accessibility of Template:Infobox gridiron football person

There has recently been a discussion at the talk page of the WikiProject on Accessibility regarding Template:Infobox gridiron football person. In the past, the template only had a single set of parameters for playing_years and playing_teams. This caused editors to create lists using <br>. This violates Wikipedia's policies regarding accessibility (see WP:VLIST). To correct this issue, the template has been edited to include numbered parameters playing_years1/playing_team1 through playing_years20/playing_year20 (and similar for coaching, administrating, etc). Eventually, the parameters playing_years and playing_teams will likely be removed from the template and all articles will need to use the new parameters, in order to prevent future issues with accessibility. This template should generally not be in use in articles primarily related to this project, but in practice, many articles that this project will be interested in use it.

There is further discussion ongoing about whether these changes should be done manually or with a bot. You can read and contribute to the discussion at the talk page. ~ Rob^Talk 21:45, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

Opinions regarding new edits

The new editor Filipo Sooa (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) has been busy creating templates and redirects regarding the 1997 Green Bay Packers. I am not familiar enough with them to tell if they are useful or not. I can say that I am finding what is being done to be confusing so if any of the members of this project can take a look at things it would be appreciated. MarnetteD|Talk 03:53, 3 August 2015 (UTC)

@MarnetteD: I believe the convention is to use footer templates only for championship teams. In 1997, the Packers lost Super Bowl XXXII to the Broncos. -Niceguyedc ^{Go Huskies!} 03:58, 3 August 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, only championship winning teams are allowed to have one. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 04:00, 3 August 2015 (UTC)

Niceguyedc and Dissident93 thanks for the replies. It looks like it might take some untangling to deal with this persons edits. If you (or anyone else) have any suggestions as to how to proceed from here I an sure they would be helpful. MarnetteD|Talk 04:02, 3 August 2015 (UTC)

• The header on this navbox ("Green Bay Packers Super Bowl XXXII Champions") gives false/misleading information. Again it was the Broncos that won Super Bowl XXXII, not the Packers. I also noticed that someone else just blocked Filipo Sooa as a vandalism-only account. Zzyzx11 (talk) 04:08, 3 August 2015 (UTC)
  • And now that same admin has just deleted it under WP:G3 per what I just mentioned. Zzyzx11 (talk) 04:11, 3 August 2015 (UTC)
• Thanks for the heads up MarnetteD I think I've cleaned everything up.—Bagumba (talk) 04:17, 3 August 2015 (UTC)
  • Bagumba, Thanks. I support your decision to block that user, as the deletion logs show that he had created similar hoax templates within the past few days. Zzyzx11 (talk) 04:22, 3 August 2015 (UTC)
    • My thanks to everyone for dealing with this. Something seemed "not quite right" but I had to go and watch some of my Sunday night shows - what - a life away from WikiP - how could such a thing be :-) - so I appreciate everyone's efforts in looking into this and cleaning up as needed. Cheers. MarnetteD|Talk 04:58, 3 August 2015 (UTC)

Banners in "List of [team] seasons"

Is the coloured banner at the top of the table in List of Minnesota Vikings seasons actually necessary? User:Charlesaaronthompson has attempted to explain it as a matter of consistency between the Vikings list and other teams' lists, but since the Vikings have never been known by another name, is it necessary at all? I can understand it for teams that have moved around a lot (or even just once), but not teams like the Vikings and the Packers... – PeeJay 09:46, 3 August 2015 (UTC)

OK, I removed all the banners from the team season lists that you think is unnecessary, including the Minnesota Vikings season list article. Charlesaaronthompson (talk) 17:51, 3 August 2015 (UTC)

That wasn't actually my goal. I'm just trying to gauge community opinion. I don't think they're necessary, but if you do, clearly there's the possibility that others do too. – PeeJay 22:07, 3 August 2015 (UTC)

Accessibility issue in Infobox NFL player

There exists a prevalent accessibility issue in Template:Infobox NFL player caused by the use of small text to denote whether a player was on a team during the regular season or just during the offseason or on the practice roster. WP:FONTSIZE disallows the use of text smaller than 11px, and specifically states to avoid use of small text in infoboxes. Please see the relevant discussion at the template's talk page regarding the possible removal of the small tags from this text. ~ Rob^Talk 06:15, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

Merge of Infobox NFL coach

This might be overly cautious, but since it's been so long since this was last discussed, it's probably best to gauge opinions.

There was a TfD discussion way back in 2012 to merge Template:Infobox NFL coach with Template:Infobox NFL player to create Infobox NFL biography. There was later a request to delay that merge pending a discussion here. The merge was never actually carried out, and it was rediscussed in the second half of 2013, where there appeared to be consensus to carry it out as per the TfD. The template still exists today, and we're approaching three years after the TfD. Among our current AFC head coaches (which I used for spot-checking purposes), half of them are already using the Infobox NFL player template, so I assume that the functionality of Infobox NFL player works for coaches at this point in time. Is there any reason not to finish carrying out this merge? ~ Rob^Talk 12:02, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

Without looking at past discussions, it seems like a merge should be desirable, since most coaches today are ex-players. FWIW, WP:BASEBALL, and WP:NBA each have a single bio infobox, not separate ones for coaches and players.—Bagumba (talk) 23:05, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, they need to be merged. Would everything by ported over by a bot? ~ Dissident93 (talk) 23:21, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

Very careful use of AWB could handle it, possibly. There's only 335 articles still using the deprecated template. ~ Rob^Talk 00:58, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

Parent template for roster navboxes

Can there be a parent template for the NFL roster navboxes, in the same way that Template:NFL roster exists? Some users have added in non-standard groups\info, and it would be nice to prevent that all together. If you want to see what I mean, look at the discussions I had on the talk page on the Falcons one. A parent template would prevent edit warring, like it does on the normal roster one. I can work on a sandbox prototype if the community agrees it should be done. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 22:17, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

NFL Top 100 Rankings in Player Infoboxes

A while back, in a discussion which can be seen here, we discussed whether or not the rankings of the NFL Top 100 of each year should be listed in a player's infobox. In players that are listed regularly, it can really cloud up the infoboxes. There is no official guide to do this in the template which leads to some players having it and others not having it. It seems in this past discussion which was left alone, we were close to a consensus to remove it. Would you guys support or oppose this change? Chambr (talk) 03:15, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

Just to get my opinion on record, I would support the removal of these rankings because it clouds up infoboxes especially in players nominated repeatedly. Also, it is not an officially sanctioned award, in other words it has no set rules or guidelines in regards to how NFL Network sets these rankings up, all we know is they get the input of some players. As an example of this, we don't list Spike TV Rookie of the Year (2012) in Andrew Luck's infobox because it is not an officially sanctioned award. Chambr (talk) 03:22, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

I'd remove it, since it will just end up more bloated, and the rankings don't really mean anything anyway. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 03:18, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

WP:WEIGHT is the guiding principle here. AFAIK, it's only mentioned as WP:ROUTINE coverage when it comes out. I don't think it's often mentioned what past years' rank is, or even largely associated with a player in general article during the year. Compared to NBA or MLB bios, infoboxes for NFL are a mess. Anyone interested in cleaning them up?—Bagumba (talk) 04:09, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

• Remove these meaningless rankings from the infobox; if a player attained one of those annual rankings, there are usually far more important honors, awards and championships to include in the infobox. Rule of thumb: if it's not important enough to mention in the mainbody text with a sourced footnote, it's probably not important enough to include in the infobox. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 04:19, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

Discussion re inclusion of "all colleges attended" within the pro football Infobox

There is a discussion in which you may be interested on including "all colleges attended" in the pro football player Infobox, at Template talk:Infobox NFL player#Including "all" colleges attended in Infobox?. UW Dawgs (talk) 00:54, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

Gronkowski

There's been some ongoing vandalism over Rob Gronkowski and his middle. An editor (correctly) added a {{cn}} tag to the middle name, because it became unclear what his middle name is (the two candidates appear to be James and Paxton). I removed the middle name altogether, because I'd rather not have the CN in the lead like that. If anyone can help determine what his middle name is, it would be really helpful. Calidum 03:49, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

• His NFL.com profile lists neither of his supposed middle names, nor his full first name of "Robert": [4]. In the absence of a reliable source per WP:RS, you should omit any middle name per WP:V and WP:BLP. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 04:38, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

Infobox NFL player soon to replace Infobox NFL coach -- we need a template name

Hey, sports fans. In the next few weeks, Template:Infobox NFL player will replace the remaining 300 or so uses of Template:Infobox NFL coach. Infobox NFL player will support the current functionality of Infobox NFL coach, but will maintain the formatting of Infobox NFL player. We need a new name that everyone can live with for the infobox template. Here are the leading candidates for the resulting "merged" template:

1. Infobox NFL biography;
2. Infobox NFL football biography;
3. Infobox NFL career;
4. Infobox NFL football career;
5. Infobox NFL person;
6. Infobox NFL football person;
7. Infobox NFL player (leave as is); or
8. Infobox NFL football player.

As a frequent editor of CFB and NFL articles, I have no particularly strong favorite in this hunt. All are reasonably descriptive, and all are reasonably concise. Since the editors of WikiProject National Football League (WP:NFL) are the principal users of this template, I have posted a notice to ask you what your preferred template name would be for the merged functionality. Please post your !votes (and brief rationale, if you want) immediately below. This discussion will close no later than September 7, 2015 @ 6:00 p.m. EDT (10:00 p.m. UDT). If you have an opinion, now is the time to speak up. Cheers. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 22:07, 28 August 2015 (UTC)