Talk:Sasha Williams (The Walking Dead)

Wikipedia articles are not reliable sources

Per WP:WPNOTRS, Wikipedia articles are user-generated content and are not considered to be reliable sources for other Wikipedia articles. Therefore, I have removed all Wikipedia articles cited as sources in the article. If these are relevant to the information being discussed, then they should added as simple Wikilinks and not inline citations. Since these Wikipedia articles were the only "sources" being cited, the article is now not supported by a single reliable source. Therefore, I have also added a {{Unreferenced}} to the article. - Marchjuly (talk) 07:13, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

Centric episode(s)

A discussion regarding the meaning and value of listing "Centric episode(s)" in the character infobox has been started at Talk:The Walking Dead (TV series)#Character page infoboxes - "Centric episode(s)". Please feel free to join discussion if interested. Thanks in advance. - Marchjuly (talk) 03:01, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Title of this article

Thelonggoneblues, regarding this, the article should be moved back; it should be moved back per WP:Common name. She is not primarily known by her full name; she is mainly known as "Sasha"; her full name can go in the WP:Lead, however. You can see a similar discussion at Talk:Andrea (The Walking Dead). If you still want to move the article after what I've stated, you can take the matter to WP:Requested moves. I'll give you and others some time to reply. But I will be moving the article back unless a solid rationale can be made for keeping this article at the full name. Flyer22 (talk) 17:10, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

Flyer22, Andrea is different. Harrison is not her confirmed last name. Williams was confirmed as Sasha and Tyreese's last names, most fans identify their last names as Williams anyway and have for quite a while, the releases for action figures identify Tyreese's last name as "Williams", etc. Carol Peletier and Glenn Rhee are not primarily known by her full names either, yet their names are fully recognized as the article name, because that's what people recognize to distinguish her from other Carols or Glenns (it brings uniqueness). Andrea's name is not listed as "Harrison" because we really don't know. Kirkman has even dissociated himself from that game where the name is mentioned as a random Easter Egg. The point being, it's a selling point within marketing and fans know them as this. thelonggoneblues (talk) 18:25, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

It's not different as far as WP:Common name goes, and the fact that you are adding the name "Williams" based on season 5 DVD commentary. That is not an aspect of the show. Flyer22 (talk) 17:33, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

Neither is Glenn "Rhee". That's just something Mazzara's said on Twitter. thelonggoneblues (talk) 21:42, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

Glenn Rhee is supported by the official website. Drovethrughosts (talk) 22:56, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

And Sasha is supported by the actual DVD commentary for the 5th season. That's my point. That was officially renamed from "Glenn" to "Glenn Rhee" after Glen Mazzara made that tweet (although the site does post erroneous plot information regardless but it's still true). The same will be for Sasha once promotional character images for next season appear now that the info is out. But Glenn's name has never, ever been officially stated on the TV series, yet the article of the character on Wikipedia is "Glenn Rhee". There's no reason why Sasha Williams should be removed unless Glenn Rhee is removed as well. Nevertheless, I think both should stay for distinction. thelonggoneblues (talk) 00:05, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

Like I stated, WP:Common name is what matters here. The Glenn Rhee article also shouldn't be titled "Glenn Rhee" if he is only known as "Glenn Rhee" in the television series and yet we never hear any character refer to him as "Glenn Rhee" in that television series. I will be starting WP:Requested move discussions for this article and the Glenn Rhee article. If you want to state anything else on the matter to try to convince me that we should have these articles titled by names the characters are not usually known by, then feel free. Flyer22 (talk) 01:26, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

I'm going to agree with Flyer22 at this time, unless we can come up with some reliable sources that identify her last name as Williams. BOZ (talk) 03:58, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

I've also been meaning to mention that the Carol Peletier article should be titled Carol (The Walking Dead). I'll start a WP:Requested moves discussion about that as well. Flyer22 (talk) 12:19, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

Flyer22 ^^That one I would disagree with. Changing Sasha (The Walking Dead) to Sasha Williams (The Walking Dead) was premature on the other users part, I agree, and Glenn Rhee being changed to Glenn (The Walking Dead), I'm sort of indifferent towards but, I do think Carol Peletier is definitely the character's common name at this point, regardless of whether it's appeared in the comics or not.Cebr1979 (talk) 22:41, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

(started a discussion at the Carol talk page).Cebr1979 (talk) 23:00, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

How is "Carol Peletier" Carol's common name when not only is she not referred to as that in the comics, but also is not referred to that in the television show, and when the general audience doesn't even call her by her full name? I'm certain that the general audience doesn't know her full name, considering that it's barely used. And by "general audience," I mean the ones who don't research the characters/actively discuss the characters online. I'll reiterate this at the discussion you started. Flyer22 (talk) 00:42, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

Exactly, Flyer22. Jim does say "Ed Peletier" in season 1, episode 4, but he says it very passively, and it's very easy to miss. Daryl Dixon, Rick Grimes, the Greenes and maybe Bob Stookey are the only surnames really emphasized. thelonggoneblues (talk) 22:14, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

At least with Daryl Dixon, his name has been used within the series more than once and a lot fans use his full name in a "more than just in passing" way. Flyer22 (talk) 00:45, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

One thing I would add about Carol is that in one first season episode, one character (I think Shane) definitely does call her husband "Ed Peletier" by his full name. BOZ (talk) 12:08, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

This edit, after I made this edit earlier on, motivated me to go ahead and start the move discussion below. Flyer22 (talk) 07:04, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

Requested move discussion

• Sasha Williams (The Walking Dead) → Sasha (The Walking Dead)
• Carol Peletier → Carol (The Walking Dead)
• Glenn Rhee → Glenn (The Walking Dead)
• Shane Walsh (The Walking Dead) → Shane (The Walking Dead)
• Dale Horvath → Dale (The Walking Dead)
• Sophia Peletier → Sophia (The Walking Dead)

– Per the #Title of this article section above, these characters are mostly known by their first names, not by their full names, and the full names have barely been used. In a few of these cases, as you can see, the articles are already disambiguated; so disambiguating further with a name they are barely known by is overkill. Similar to what I argued at Talk:Andrea (The Walking Dead)#Move article title back to Andrea (The Walking Dead)?, the current titles do not adhere to the WP:Common name policy. And I don't think we should be giving WP:Undue weight to what a character is occasionally known by. From what I can see, these articles should follow the same path as the Faith (Buffy the Vampire Slayer) article. Faith's last name was revealed in a role-playing game and has been used for subsequent material relating to the Buffy the Vampire Slayer series, but she is most commonly simply known as Faith and therefore that is the title of her Wikipedia article. Also take note that, in contrast to Sasha Williams, Tyreese's Wikipedia article is still titled Tyreese instead of Tyreese Williams. I will alert Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Television, Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Comics and Talk:The Walking Dead (TV series) to this discussion. I will also leave a note about it at the talk pages of the aforementioned articles I am proposing to move. Flyer22 (talk) 07:04, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

Oh, I see that a bot has already left a note about this move discussion at the talk pages of the character articles in question. Flyer22 (talk) 07:19, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

Note: I added Sophia Peletier to the list after my "07:19, 28 September 2015 (UTC)" post. Flyer22 (talk) 07:27, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

If characters have last names, they should be used. Being more specific is more encyclopedia-like then having things in brackets. There are redirects so it's not like someone could get lost if looking for simply "Carol (The Walking Dead)." There are more sources that refer to these characters with both their first and last names than simply their first name and then the name of the show in brackets (with the exception of Sasha and Tyreese who only got last names a few weeks ago). In the case of Tyreese, the only reason that page wasn't moved is because you created a redirect before someone else could move it and then reverted all the edits mentioning his last name.Cebr1979 (talk) 07:32, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

Wikipedia titles work based on what the WP:Article titles policy states; WP:Common name is a part of that. These characters are not generally know by their last names; that's a fact. And the reason that the Tyreese article wasn't moved seems to be because Thelonggoneblues stopped to listen to what I had to state above. My creating a redirect after this edit stopped no one from moving that article. And I retained his last name in his Wikipedia article. That is what the lead is for, per WP:Alternative title. Flyer22 (talk) 08:00, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

"These characters are not generally know by their last names; that's a fact." I think you need to look up the meaning of the word "fact." Just because you believe something, does not a fact make.Cebr1979 (talk) 08:02, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

I'm done discussing this matter with you. I await other opinions. Flyer22 (talk) 08:12, 28 September 2015 (UTC)