Talk:Pedophilia: Difference between revisions

Content deleted Content added

Inline

Revision as of 02:08, 21 September 2019

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Pedophilia article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find medical sources: Source guidelines · PubMed · Cochrane · DOAJ · Gale · OpenMD · ScienceDirect · Springer · Trip · Wiley · TWL

Archives: Index, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22: 60 days

Template:Vital article

The subject of this article is controversial and content may be in dispute. When updating the article, be bold, but not reckless. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. Content must be written from a neutral point of view. Include citations when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information.

Frequently asked questions

Q1: Why does this article characterize pedophilia as a mental or psychiatric disorder?

A1: Fundamentally, Wikipedia articles need to reflect the consensus expressed in the best-available reliable sources. Those sources characterize pedophilia as a mental or psychiatric disorder, so this article must as well. Those sources state that a mental disorder is a mental or behavioral pattern or anomaly that causes distress, disability or a strong impulse to harm oneself or others. Because pedophilia creates a strong impulse to have sexual relations with prepubertal children (an act which is innately harmful), and people with the disorder that avoid doing so often suffer great distress, it is considered to be a mental disorder. This is what differentiates it from other types of sexual attractions or orientations that do not innately lead to harm or distress.

Q2: Why isn't ______ point of view about pedophilia represented in this article?

A2: Information on Wikipedia must rely first and foremost on reliable sources that can be independently verified. Sources come in many forms but some are clearly better than others. Peer-reviewed journal articles, major published manuals and textbooks are considered very reliable, while personal blog posts or anonymous forums are often nearly worthless and almost never acceptable. This article in particular is about a topic in the area of medicine, and so requires a much higher standard of source than, say, an article about a fictional television program. Another key matter in excluding some material is the concept of fringe theories; sources that represent extremely minor and often flawed views of a topic that are plainly contradicted by more rigorous and reliable sources. For pedophilia in particular there are many fringe points of view that exist, but few have any scientific backing verifiable by reliable sources, and many are outright discredited for questionable relevance or due to the author(s) clearly having ulterior motives, i.e. being a pedophile themselves attempting to justify or normalize their behavior.

Q3: Why doesn't this article talk about pedophilia during historical periods of time (e.g. Ancient Greece or Rome, Muhammad)?

A3: Covering this particular sub-topic is highly problematic for several reasons. The term "pedophilia" itself did not exist until the 19th century, and was coined specifically to refer to a mental illness with set criteria. While the condition no doubt existed prior to that, there was no way to categorize or name it, and thus no reliable source exists labeling any historical person as having "pedophilia." Labeling a historical person based on sexual behavior alone, especially a single recorded perpetration, is also problematic because not all child sexual abusers are pedophiles. The person's internal mental "drive" to engage in such behavior is a key component in diagnosis, something that is almost always missing from historical accounts. A third problem is that the vast majority of such recorded instances in history that people often think of actually would not qualify, because the victim was at or past puberty, whereas, medically, pedophilia usually only refers to prepubescent children.

This page is not a forum for general discussion about Pedophilia. Any such comments may be removed or refactored. Please limit discussion to improvement of this article. You may wish to ask factual questions about Pedophilia at the Reference desk.

This article is written in American English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, defense, traveled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

Psychology B‑class Mid‑importance

	Psychology portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Psychology, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Psychology on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PsychologyWikipedia:WikiProject PsychologyTemplate:WikiProject Psychologypsychology articles
B	This article has been rated as B-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Medicine: Psychiatry B‑class Mid‑importance

	Medicine portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Medicine, which recommends that medicine-related articles follow the Manual of Style for medicine-related articles and that biomedical information in any article use high-quality medical sources. Please visit the project page for details or ask questions at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine.MedicineWikipedia:WikiProject MedicineTemplate:WikiProject Medicinemedicine articles
B	This article has been rated as B-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
	Psychiatry portal This article is supported by the Psychiatry task force (assessed as Mid-importance).

Sexology and sexuality B‑class High‑importance

	Human sexuality portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Sexology and sexuality, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of human sexuality on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Sexology and sexualityWikipedia:WikiProject Sexology and sexualityTemplate:WikiProject Sexology and sexualitySexology and sexuality articles
B	This article has been rated as B-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Pedophilia Article Watch (defunct)

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Pedophilia Article Watch, a project which is currently considered to be defunct.Pedophilia Article WatchWikipedia:WikiProject Pedophilia Article WatchTemplate:WikiProject Pedophilia Article WatchPedophilia Article Watch articles

Sociology B‑class Mid‑importance

	Society portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Sociology, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of sociology on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SociologyWikipedia:WikiProject SociologyTemplate:WikiProject Sociologysociology articles
B	This article has been rated as B-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Law B‑class Mid‑importance

	Law portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Law, an attempt at providing a comprehensive, standardised, pan-jurisdictional and up-to-date resource for the legal field and the subjects encompassed by it.LawWikipedia:WikiProject LawTemplate:WikiProject Lawlaw articles
B	This article has been rated as B-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Ideal sources for Wikipedia's health content are defined in the guideline Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources (medicine) and are typically review articles. Here are links to possibly useful sources of information about Pedophilia.

PubMed provides review articles from the past five years (limit to free review articles)
The TRIP database provides clinical publications about evidence-based medicine.
Other potential sources include: Centre for Reviews and Dissemination and CDC

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Pedophilia article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find medical sources: Source guidelines · PubMed · Cochrane · DOAJ · Gale · OpenMD · ScienceDirect · Springer · Trip · Wiley · TWL

Archives: Index, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22: 60 days

Religion

Please add a section titled "Religion" and further subsections by religion e.g. "Islam", "Christianity" and so on. For example, any article on pedophilia comes across as an "apologists' article", "deliberate omission" or "omission under peer pressure brought on by the islamist lobby on wikipedia" if it does not incorporate muhammed and his underages wives, child abuse and sexcapades with young child-bride Aisha, permissible pedophilia/underage marriage/marital rape of children in islam, Bacha bazi, etc. 222.164.212.168 (talk) 05:16, 20 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Well, it should be said that it isn't Christianity which has banned child marriages, it is secularism. Oh, by the way, some US states have no marriageable age limit. Neither the Bible, nor the Church Fathers, nor the Oral Torah condemn a 50 years old man who marries a 9 years old girl. Tgeorgescu (talk) 17:01, 20 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

No. Child sexual abuse is not pedophilia. And there currently isn't even a section in the Child sexual abuse article about religious views. And even if there were a section on it in that article, it would need to be well-sourced to say that these religions have endorsed child sexual abuse. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 00:58, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Less than 4 hours after the protection on the talk page is lifted, and this is what happens. Turn it back on Swarm?Legitimus (talk) 02:08, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Revision as of 00:58, 21 September 2019 view source Flyer22 Frozen (talk \| contribs) Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers 365,630 edits Archiving. And replied. ← Previous edit		Revision as of 02:08, 21 September 2019 view source Legitimus (talk \| contribs) Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers 5,198 edits →‎Religion: please turn page protection back on? Next edit →
Line 47:		Line 47:

	:No. Child sexual abuse is not pedophilia. And there [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Child_sexual_abuse&oldid=915951108 currently] isn't even a section in the [[Child sexual abuse]] article about religious views. And even if there were a section on it in that article, it would need to be well-sourced to say that these religions have endorsed child sexual abuse. [[User:Flyer22 Reborn\|Flyer22 Reborn]] ([[User talk:Flyer22 Reborn\|talk]]) 00:58, 21 September 2019 (UTC)		:No. Child sexual abuse is not pedophilia. And there [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Child_sexual_abuse&oldid=915951108 currently] isn't even a section in the [[Child sexual abuse]] article about religious views. And even if there were a section on it in that article, it would need to be well-sourced to say that these religions have endorsed child sexual abuse. [[User:Flyer22 Reborn\|Flyer22 Reborn]] ([[User talk:Flyer22 Reborn\|talk]]) 00:58, 21 September 2019 (UTC)

			::Less than 4 hours after the protection on the talk page is lifted, and this is what happens. Turn it back on [[User:Swarm\|Swarm]]?[[User:Legitimus\|Legitimus]] ([[User talk:Legitimus\|talk]]) 02:08, 21 September 2019 (UTC)