Talk:Murder of Sadia Sheikh

Requested move

Honor killing of Sadia Sheikh → Killing of Sadia Sheikh – This is clearly a killing, so there can be no doubt that the proposed title is accurate. Whether it is in any way a matter of honour (note spelling in keeping with Pakistani English) is a matter of opinion. While events of this nature are often referred to as honour killings, that is often prefixed with "so called" or similar qualifications, or the word honour is placed in inverted commas to suggest the inadequacy, bordering on irony, of the adjective. We do not have the ability to use that device, so we should simply name the article as what it unquestionably was, a killing: any more is editorial comment. Kevin McE (talk) 17:47, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

Disagree. This event is notable as an identified (not so-called) honor killing, not simply a killing. It is not editorializing, but how reliable sources are referring to the event. Plot Spoiler (talk) 20:53, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

There are 6 English language sources cited, every single one of which places the word honour in inverted commas. We do not have the facility of using that device in an article title, so removing the disputed/ironic modifier seems appropriate. Let's imagine the article started as merely Killing of ....: please explain why you would wish to add unqualified "honour" adjective. Kevin McE (talk) 10:49, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

I still disagree. This subject is only notable as an "honor killing" -- not simply a killing. I suggest we perhaps make use of WP:RFC instead of this back and forth that will go nowhere, and underhanded unilateral changes -- as you performed on the other honor killing pages. Plot Spoiler (talk) 21:48, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Nothing underhanded about it: I justified it from the sources in each article, and explained that in the edit notes. Any killing that has an article is only notable by virtue of the circumstances of the killing, but the circumstances are not explained in the title every time. Did you consider it underhand when you moved the articles thus in the first instance (as I have only just found). I note that you are now using the device of placing the phrase in inverted commas, and yet you insist on presenting the term in unqualified manner in article titles. Kevin McE (talk) 01:52, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Ok, let's take a step back and calm down. I was not using a qualified version of the term -- I was simply quoting for emphasis and definitely not placing it in inverted commas. And on the other pages nobody had edited those articles for quite some time when you obviously realized that I had recently edited those articles and decided to make the disputed changes anyway. Plot Spoiler (talk) 15:30, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

As a feminist I am ambivalent about "honor" killing, even if many WP:RS use the phrase. I'd like to see all the articles about women raped and murdered retitled "Rape killing of ____". I'm sure many African Americans would like to see articles about lynching re-titled Category:Lynching_deaths_in_the_United_States "Lynch killing of...". I'm sure Palestinians would like to see stories about Palestinian children killed by Israeli bullets and bombs "Israeli killing of..." Obviously in all cases a POV is being pushed as well as something accurate being said. So as a feminist I like to see the reason males killed women spelled out, as a person sensitive to Wikipedia being used to bash Muslims, I think we have to look at how various killings are labeled in general. CarolMooreDC 16:10, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

You mean like Lynching of Laura and Lawrence Nelson, Lynching of Jesse Washington, Lynching of Ed Johnson, Lynching of Ell Persons? Jayjg ^(talk) 17:09, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Carol, what the heck is with this canvassing on WP:Islam? [1] I request you remove it. This article really has little to nothing to do with Islam -- the religion is not mentioned once in the article and honor killings have also been attributed to non-Muslim groups such as Sikhs and Hindus. And more importantly it does not fall under WP:Islam -- so why are you canvassing there? Plot Spoiler (talk) 17:46, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Wow, that was really blatant. I've removed it. Carol, you claim in your earlier comment that you are "a feminist", yet oddly did not actually mention this discussion at Wikiproject Feminism, instead mentioning it in only one place, a project of which this article is not even a part, on a subject that this article never even mentions. Please don't do this kind of thing again. Jayjg ^(talk) 17:51, 28 December 2011 (UTC)