User talk:Hoary

People need Wikipedia. (Even if not as much as they need Facebook or something called "Glam Media". Ewww.)

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So give WebCite your money.

If I've posted something on your talk page, please reply there rather than here. Any new question or comment at the bottom of the page, please. If you post something here, I'll reply here.

From time to time non-confirmed editors won't be able to edit this page. If you can't post a message to me here, please do so here.

Thanks for your wisdom

Snowy Owl	A wise owl
	Hoary is defined as : #1 white or grey with age #2 ancient and venerable. Worthy associations...so, my wise and venerable friend, I gift you with this beautiful Snowy Owl, who may personify "Hoary". No generic smiles or "wikilove" templates. Just a photograph that I hope you will enjoy, as thanks for your friendly helpfulness. Tribe of Tiger Let's Purrfect! 01:39, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

Your talkpage caveats regarding generic smiles and "wikilove" templates made me chuckle. "Wikilove" is a nice sentiment, but a dreadful name. I couldn't resist the challenge, and will watch your page "avidly". Best wishes! Tribe of Tiger ^{Let's Purrfect!} 01:55, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

Oh, thank you. Yes, I do like owls. In the spirit of Wikipedia, didja know that the Japanese word for bird is normally written 鳥, that a number of the Japanese words for particular species of bird can be written with 鳥 plus something (for example kamo, 鴨, meaning "duck"), but the only Japanese words (that I can think of) for particular species of bird whose characters subtract something are karasu, 烏 (you have to look closely), meaning "crow", and fukurō, 梟, meaning "owl". -- Hoary (talk) 02:05, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

Oh, no, I have no knowledge of this, and even with enlarging my screen, my old eyes have difficulty discerning the difference. I knew you were a very wise bird! My main association with anything Japanese, has to with the marvelous art of Shibori, which I studied, for a number of years, through week-long workshops, poring over books, and weeks/months/years of experimentation. After becoming somewhat proficient, I began to produce and sell my artwork. An (American) friend purchased one of my shibori neckties, and wore it during a business trip to Japan. He reported that his Japanese business colleagues immediately recognized the shibori technique, and were very impressed that an American artist had produced his necktie, and, I suspect, that an American man would value it, and wear it. This seemed to be an ice-breaker, as far as his business trip went. I had forgotten about this good memory. I have a rather large collection of shibori patterned fabrics, purchased from Japan. After this conversation, I think I will be opening drawers, looking in closets, and marveling over astonishingly beautiful fabrics, once again! I am so glad you liked the snowy owl, and I am grateful to you, for causing me to recall happy memories! Warmly, Tribe of Tiger ^{Let's Purrfect!} 03:23, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

Draft: The Goblin Club

Hi Hoary!

I hope you are well.

I was wondering whether you could help me with my page (Draft:The Goblin Club) and get it approved. Any help or advice would be much appreciated! :)

Best wishes,

Gobbo123

Unfortunately I can't read the FT article. A quick look at the descriptions of the other sources suggests that they're all local. I have trouble discerning notability here, I'm sorry to say. -- Hoary (talk) 13:24, 9 November 2020 (UTC)

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File:S.M.I.L.A by Alexander Ozolin .mp3

Hi Hoary, you replied about this file that it warrants "fair use", but violates the "WP:CSD#F7". Let me elaborate details about this file:

• This file is the soundtrack for 2016 TV show Kiev Day and Night.

• The producer of this file is believed to be the television channel, because the song was premiered with music video (neither audio format was produced nor the record label is unspecified at the end of the video).

• See the video on YouTube

• See here for webpage of this song in its channel
• See the channel's privacy policy

I need to request undelete the file, and I am obligated to fulfill its necessity until I completely understand the concept of WP:NFCC#8. The Supermind (talk) 16:27, 9 December 2020 (UTC)

A file can't have a "fair use" status. Arguably, it can have a "fair use" status for a particular purpose. You would be claiming "fair use" within the article Kiev Day and Night; whether your claim would be justified would depend on a number of factors. The file was deleted by Explicit. If you want to argue for its restoration, you should ask Explicit (at User talk:Explicit). ¶ As you may know, "deleted" files aren't really deleted, and it should be no harder to restore the file in (say) 2022 than to restore it right now. I suggest that you concentrate on the text of the article before worrying about which "media" to attach to it. Looking at the text, I immediately see two kinds of problem. First, while much of it is easy to understand, it includes material that I don't understand at all. An example is the sentence "The second season was increased by 25% and critically collapsed the exceeding rate in total by 50% while premiering season five, resulted in cancellation on January 8, 2019". Secondly, it casually includes unreferenced evaluations: "Well-known deluxe poster", "Three notable soundtracks were produced", etc. -- Hoary (talk) 23:41, 9 December 2020 (UTC)

OK, I removed some stuffs as you mentioned, I really concerned with S.M.I.L.A section. Now I insert some commentary that is independent to original claims. The Supermind (talk) 08:49, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

You're improving it. Good! But there's a lot more work to be done. For example: "The music video features Alexander with Albina and her husband Oleksandr." No: people should normally be referred to by surname. -- Hoary (talk) 12:13, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

Great! Thanks, I haven't review the other aspects of article. Done. What should we do next? I have already requested undeletion to Explicit. The Supermind (talk) 17:12, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

Best wishes for the holidays

		Season's Greetings
		Wishing you and yours a Happy Holiday Season, and all best wishes for the New Year! Adoration of the Magi (Jan Mostaert) is my Wiki-Christmas card to all for this year. Johnbod (talk) 12:11, 19 December 2020 (UTC)

Thank you, Johnbod! It's a fine painting and a fine article. Thank you for your good work on it, and the very best solstice-into-January season to you too. -- Hoary (talk) 08:30, 23 December 2020 (UTC)

Happy holidays

This year, many people had COVID to fear,
The holidays are getting near,
One thing that will be clear,
We will still have holiday cheer,
Happy holidays and happy new year!!
From Interstellarity (talk) 14:01, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

Thank you, Interstellarity! And the same to you. Yes, I have a pile of things to do, but tomorrow shan't do any of them and shall instead unglue my rear end from this or any chair for an entire day. (Back to work the day after, though.) -- Hoary (talk) 08:33, 23 December 2020 (UTC)

About Draft:Mark Cross (artist)

Hi! Thanks for your review and comments. Yes, most are articles about the artist in "art magazines" (I think it is better to call them that way), which include text and his works, they are spaces in those publications dedicated exclusively to him. The links that I included in that section are direct to each specific publication, where the artist is mentioned. Unfortunately many of these contents are not online, I have some PDFs about those contents but I understand that it is not appropriate to upload them as images. As for each of these media is less than four pages, I understand that you mean the length of the articles about the artist? if so, I don't see anything wrong with the coverage being 3 or 4 pages. Please let me know if I misinterpreted your comment. Thanks!Cmparma (talk) 19:11, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

The first question you should ask yourself about Cross is whether he satisfies WP:ARTIST. (I note that he has won various awards; but most, if not all, seem obscure, and the references for his having won them aren't articles in art magazines or even the awarding institutions, but instead the website of a company promoting and selling his work.) If he doesn't satisfy WP:ARTIST, then the second question is whether he satisfies WP:GNG in some other way. If he doesn't, then (regardless of the quality of his work) an article about him won't survive at Wikipedia. Let's suppose for a moment that he does satisfy WP:GNG (e.g. via WP:ARTIST). Well, what can you say about him? If these articles about him contain worthwhile material (and if this isn't mere recycling of the same stuff), then summarize this material and cite it. As for appearances in magazines, we normally ignore these. Worthy exceptions include what's described in the article Chris Killip as "Chris Killip Photographs 1975–1976 in the North East". London: Creative Camera, May 1977, Number 155, entire issue. because (i) it was unusually large (indeed, the entire issue of Creative Camera), and (ii) it has been written about (though the Wikipedia article doesn't currently describe this). -- Hoary (talk) 00:27, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

Hello Sir, can you help me with this article.

hello sir, i am a new wikipedia user, i am trying to contribute to wikipedia. i am basically from kashmir and i want to contribute to wikipedia with kashmiri notable articles. i have started drafting my first article on a kashmiri entrepreneur and i have checked it multiple times and it looks fine to me now, but since i am new i might be wrong, can you kindly assist and guide me on this article. please see if more information is required or it is enough. i'll be very thankful if you help me with my first article and also help me to publish it to main space.

Link of the draft:- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Zeyan_Shafiq

and as you wrote earlier that this person is only notable for kashbook, check refrences he is the founder of india's leading esport organisation as well namely stalwart esports.

Thanks and regards humsar.Hums4r (talk) 03:04, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

Your list of contributions shows that you have sent the identical message to a number of people. Therefore I'll reply at the Teahouse. -- Hoary (talk) 08:31, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

thanks for letting me know about submission processes,

Hello, i happen to know him, but this is not a COI, I have gone through all the articles myself. this is the only reason i want to do article on him, also i am planning to do article mainly on notable kashmiri people. i think people should know about him (He has been very notable in news in 2017 and now with his new startup 'Stalwart Esports' he's making it to news again and thats why i wanted to do it on him,my formatting might be wrong but i am learning it all) and other kashmiri's as well since everyone looks up for information on wikipedia only. i am new to wikipedia and still learning on how to make edits, i was unable to move the article to mainspace and i googled about it and it showed me that you need an old account to move it, so i asked Zeyan if he has an old account and if he can move it, since i didnt know about AfC process, i admit my mistake and apologise for it, i have submitted it through AfC. i'll make sure this doesnt get repeated, and my reason for asking multiple users about the draft was to ask them to review it if there are any mistakes in the article. and i have updated the sources for the pictures as well,kindly check. I am sorry for the earlier incorrect source. i am learning about all the rules of wiki slowly and i look forward to improve things The reason i am posting this message here as well is to let you know about my response, i dont know if you will get any notification of my response at teahouse question.

Draft:Zeyan Shafiq Hums4r (talk) 01:00, 13 January 2021 (UTC)

Thank you. I've responded at the Teahouse. -- Hoary (talk) 05:16, 13 January 2021 (UTC)

Joseph Chila

Dear Hoary hello and happy new year I am writing since I see the addition that I added to the Josph Chila talk page early in december still hasn't been added to the main page which you advised me not to edit because of CoI. If you could take a look that would be appreciated Also the parallel Samuel Finlak page still is unapproved in draft best wishes davidz Dz3 (talk) 10:20, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

And a happy new year to you! Sorry, I really don't think that the proposed addition to Joseph Chila is worthwhile: see Talk:Joseph Chila. As for Draft:Samuel Finlak, it hasn't been submitted for approval: please add {{subst:submit}} to it, and be patient. (More precisely, use the source editor -- not the visual editor -- to add what you see above when you are not editing this: "subst:submit", minus quotation marks, plus doubled braces, but not the "nowiki" or "DarkRed" stuff.) -- Hoary (talk) 23:37, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

Chrestomathy

Stumbled across one of your AfC declines. "Chrestomathy". What a great word! Just wanted to express my appreciation for your unintentional teaching moment. It's not often I come upon unfamiliar words (and I'm a language nerd of the first order). This one I'm going to put to good use!)--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 13:33, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

Fuhghettaboutit, I'd quite forgotten -- and I still don't remember which of the many AfC declinings that might have been. But thank you for the link to that dodgy article, for its link to the very strange "Ibis Chrestomathy" (by the author of, and somehow related to, the Ibis trilogy). If you enjoy the discovery of unfamiliar words, this is the place to go. But as the trilogy is fiction and the author (previously unknown to me) is primarily a novelist, the content (complete with references to actual lexicographers and dictionaries) may be fictional too. Still, words invented for fiction (chortle, etc) can and do become accepted parts of the language, so one might employ others' inventions regardless. -- Hoary (talk) 23:15, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Journalists killed in Tunisia

A tag has been placed on Category:Journalists killed in Tunisia requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the category has been empty for seven days or more and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 15:37, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

Re. clause

Speaking of non-finite clause versus nonfinite phrase, please see my edit here. Does the edit accord with a reputable publication? Yes. Do I stand by the edit? Yes, as it accords with my own lexicon. Will the edit satisfy even 50% of the people who care? Probably not. I'm not holding my breath waiting to see how long to takes before someone reverts the edit. I'll be shocked if the edit stays untouched for an entire week. No, I won't be offended if you get the jump on everyone and revert it yourself. For me, this is a bit like watching linguists who agree on using a decimal numbering system without consensus whether the number that follows 5 should be a 6 or a 9. --Kent Dominic·(talk) 14:04, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

Please see Talk:Non-finite clause. -- Hoary (talk) 23:40, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

damn bot

Hoary, I read this fascinating article about a slave reparation lawsuit and thought you might enjoy it. ta-ta. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.134.121.154 (talk) 06:00, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

Playing Angels Edits

Hi Hoary, Thank you for your edits on the Playing Angels page! In response to your question about whether or not the statues would be considered cherubs, they're definetely not the sterotypical chubby angel baby type of figures, more athletic and slightly older, so I'm not sure if this would make them cherubs or something else. I'm no expert on angels though, so if you feel that they are free to make that change. Thanks again --Zthistle2102 (talk) 07:34, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

Zthistle2102, I'm glad I could help, a little. But unfortunately angels, cherubim, seraphim and the like are among my numerous areas of ignorance. -- Hoary (talk) 07:40, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

Adze

As a collector of antique tools, I have had occasion to try my hand with an adze. The best advice I got was "wear shin guards." I also have a railroad spike remover (and a bucket full of railroad spikes rescued from old track that was to be removed for creation of a rail trail), a 13-tine ensilage fork, a "plug drill" used to make holes in granite as prep for splitting, and two ice saws. There is an anecdote about Henry David Thoreau: when a crew showed up at Walden Pond to cut ice, the winter he was living there, he pestered them with so many questions that they asked him if he wanted to man the bottom end of an ice saw. David notMD (talk) 14:05, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

Somewhere I have a bagful of decades-old Elliott-Lucas pliers, and I have a handful of freewheel extractors (and even know where they are), but that's about it for non-hundrum tools. I just wish I were more proficient at using what tools I already have. Talk of accidents and the "railroad spike remover" reminds me of the celebrated Phineas Gage, whose fate always makes me shudder. -- Hoary (talk) 22:36, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

Stas Bartnikas Draft

Hi Hoary! I hope you are well! Thank you for evaluating the draft. You mentioned in the comment that any notable photographer must meet WP:ARTIST criteria for notability. When reading the section on creative professionals' notability, I found this information:

4. “The person's work (or works) has: (a) become a significant monument, (b) been a substantial part of a significant exhibition, (c) won significant critical attention, or (d) been represented within the permanent collections of several notable galleries or museums.

You definitely have much more experience in this but I wonder whether you can re-evaluate based on the fact that Bartnikas might meet criteria of B) and C) since he won a few photography awards (taking 1st or 2nd places) and therefore was reviewed by significant critical attention? If you check his

sections “Notable Photography Awards” and “Exhibitions” and check the sources, you can see that he is not out of the mill photographer.

Please, let me know if I miss something – I'd be glad to receive your guidance and patronage on Wikipedia guidelines and rules! Here is the link to the draft for your convenience (please, no rush!): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Stas_Bartnikas --Idunnox3 (talk) 03:06, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for asking, Idunnox3. First, I should make it clear that I'm talking about "notability" only as the term is understood in Wikipedia. This notability is only tenuously related to intrinsic worth. There are Wikipedia-notable photographers (whose article-worthiness will never be challenged) who I think may or will (or should) be forgotten. There are notable-in-my-view photographers who will never get articles. ¶ Now, these awards and exhibitions: yes, they're verifiable. Have they received critical attention? Sorry, I'm too busy/lazy to look through the references: could you perhaps give me links to the best three (or four or five, but no more) among them? -- Hoary (talk) 08:42, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Hi Hoary! Many thanks for your feedback and thoughts!

Here are the links to the photography awards and critical reviews on Bartnikas works, please, take a look and let me know what you think:

Chromatic Photo Awards – 1st place (2019): https://chromaticawards.com/winners-gallery/chromatic-awards-2019/professional/environmental/gold-award

Moscow International Photo Awards (MIFA) - Gold (2017 and 2018): https://www.moscowfotoawards.com/winners/moscow/2017/3900/ https://www.moscowfotoawards.com/winners/moscow/2018/4311/

Tokyo International Photo Award – Gold prize in Architecture/Industrial + Science/Environment categories (2018):

https://www.tokyofotoawards.jp/winners/social/2018/Geothermal-Power-Plant-1/

National Geographic Travel Photo Contest: People’s Choice Award (2019)

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/contests/article/travel-photo-contest-2019-winners#/peopleschoice-nature.jpg

(page 9)

And here is a couple of critical reviews on Bartnikas’s artwork, where he is also mentioned as a winner of the Siena International Photo Awards:

https://www.thisiscolossal.com/2018/09/icelands-colorful-topography-by-stas-bartnikas/

Here is one more: https://mymodernmet.com/abstract-aerial-photography-stas-bartnikas/

The last thing, I believe that his work has clear patterns of distinguished style, which makes him different from many other artists. Let me know what you think and thank you again for your patience and time! Idunnox3 (talk) 20:24, 21 March 2021 (UTC)

I invited you to give me links to "the best three (or four or five, but no more)" examples of critical attention being paid to SB's work. You've provided two. The piece in "Colossal" is primarily a gallery of SB's work; the text is short, and based on SB's own comments. The piece in "My Modern Met" is again primarily a gallery of SB's work; the text is short, and based on SB's own comments. This simply isn't enough to constitute notability as Wikipedia understands the term. Yes, I think his work is a lot more interesting than that of a number of photographers who clearly meet the notability requirements; but this opinion of mine is of no importance. -- Hoary (talk) 22:44, 21 March 2021 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Original Barnstar
	Thank you for helping me at the teahouse. SilverMatsu (talk) 15:20, 20 March 2021 (UTC)

Request on 18:44:26, 24 March 2021 for assistance on AfC submission by M2020D

• M2020D (talk · contribs)
  • Draft:Genki Kawamura (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Hello Hoary, thank you so much for your review and comments. My Draft: Genki Kawamura was a direct translation of a preexisting Japanese wiki page of the same. My understanding was that I was not supposed to change the content but translate the material as is. Should I create something anew? Kindly let me know.

M2020D (talk) 18:44, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

I'm not surprised -- though I didn't check, I did think that it looked like a ja:WP article. This is not a compliment: with many honourable exceptions, of course, ja:WP articles tend to be horrible. (Editors there love lists, chronologies, and chronology-like text, and they pile in poorly referenced or unreferenced material.) Now that I look at it, I see that your very first version of the draft of course had markup mistakes and other problems (which didn't matter, because you weren't submitting it), but was very clear not only that it was a translation of a ja:WP article but that it was a translation of a specified version of that article. Excellent! (Though it wasn't necessary to translate all of the article.) Now the problem became one of getting the draft to meet the requirements of en:WP. There's no need to be faithful to the ja:WP original; there is a need to cite sources and to be faithful to the sources that are cited. Other points:

• A lot of the listed items look trivial even if they are/were verifiable. Are they really needed?
• No wacky Japanese-style capitalization, please. As an example, nobody will say "tee-eye-eff-eff-aye-enn-why", and therefore not "TIFFANY" but "Tiffany".
• Book titles that are in Japanese should be presented in (romanized) Japanese. Your English glosses of these titles are very welcome, but the reader shouldn't get the impression that they're actual titles. (There's a complication here, in that a lot of Japanese-only books have supplementary English-language titles. But let's not worry about this unless there are cases of it here.)
• Ditto for movie titles that are in Japanese, unless there's also an established English title for the movie.
• Book and movie titles should be italicized, not put in quotes. (I'm assuming that they're in roman letters. If you have a reason to use Japanese script anywhere, then of course this shouldn't be pseudo-italicized.)

What's unreferenced should be removed.

All of this is a pain, of course. Creating good articles (let alone "Good Articles") is hard work, unfortunately. All the best! -- Hoary (talk) 23:12, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

Zora Plešnar

Greetings! I saw Zora Plešnar in the New pages feed, but have not been able to improve it much. I thought I might mention it here so that your excellent eyes would be upon it.--- Possibly (talk) 20:41, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

Hello

Hello fellow editor, do you remember me? Cheers, Hockeycatcat (talk) 11:52, 5 April 2021 (UTC)

Hi. There's this. Why, is anything up? -- Hoary (talk) 12:26, 5 April 2021 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Original Barnstar
	Thank you for reverted the page. From now on, when making edits that cannot be undone by myself, I'll ask to the teahouse before doing that. SilverMatsu (talk) 04:37, 10 April 2021 (UTC)

Hoary, your reply is confusing. All the information came from PHD level scholars. It was just formatted as a string to show the evolution of breeding in the Old World, which lasted until about 200 years ago. College Professors have told me people are not ready to be informed yet. Wikipedia needs to get a thread started so you can see the citations and attribute the archeological evidence.

Hoary, your reply is confusing. All the information came from PHD level scholars. It was just formatted as a string to show the evolution of breeding in the Old World, which lasted until about 200 years ago. College Professors have told me people are not ready to be informed yet. Wikipedia needs to get a thread started so you can see the citations and attribute the archeological evidence. Added at 12:40, 14 April 2021 by 173.28.240.153

If you want to post fantasies on the internet, then please do so on some other website, perhaps your own blog. -- Hoary (talk) 12:56, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

Hoary, The following statement came from Wikipedia: 'The murderer had a horse waiting, and would have got away, but the foot of his horse caught in a wild vine, and he was thrown from the saddle by the stumble, and slain by his pursuers.' This is fiction from H.G. Wells!173.28.240.153 (talk) 13:21, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

The passage is from Philip II page. My family has been in America a long time. They follow the same religious practices as you must. Knowledge to one, might not be agreeable to another. But that would be racism in its purest form. Is Wikipedia racist?173.28.240.153 (talk) 13:26, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

This is another passage from Wikipedia: 'one of the two epic poems attributed to Homer' - Fiction I can list thousands of pages on Wikipedia that uses fiction to tell stories. I have actual evidence for my poetic strings. What is your thought process for placing such harsh criticism when a number of Wikipedia pages were used in creating it?173.28.240.153 (talk) 13:47, 14 April 2021 (UTC)