Talk:Squash (drink)

Untitled

See Talk:Drink re: Punch (drink). —msh210 05:22, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Merging Cordial (medicine) in with this page

They both refer to the same kind of drink. I'm not going to merge it yet, but I'm tagging it for now. The Cordial disambiguation page will also have to be altered. --Kgaughan 06:22, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

I had some misgivings, but created separate articles (when sorting out the half-baked disambig/article cordial page) because the meaning seemed distinct from the "squash" meaning. OTOH, I also dislike excessive article splitting for closely-related meanings. If they're *really* closely related enough, then they should be merged.

Perhaps cordial (drink) would have been a better "covers all cases" title than squash (drink). However, as I don't know which name is more common overall, or if there are subtle differences in meaning between the two, it's probably best to keep the original title for now. It's not important enough to justify moving stuff around :)

But back to the merge.... you're probably right. Leave it a couple of days and if no-one objects, merge cordial (medicine) into squash (drink).

Fourohfour 11:17, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

In light of Gate-way's comment below, I'm now undecided, possibly more in favour of keeping them separate. Fourohfour 12:01, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

I disagree strongly. The "cordial" use of squash as in children's lemonade is quite distinct from the historical use of the word cordial, which is aimed at an alcoholic beverage taken medicinally to invigourate the heart (thus: cordial, from latin, relating to the heart). I'm a strong advocate of maintaining both entries side by side. Cordial (medicine) does need some expanding though. : Gate-way 9:52, 13 November 2006 (CET)

In that sort of case, isn't it usual to have a history section on the same page? Bihal 00:53, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm seeing two very different drinks being described, at least the way the articles describe them now. Cordial is an alcoholic drink infused with fruits or herbs, sometimes with medicinal properties, while Squash is a sugar syrup flavored with fruit or herbs, and mixed with water to provide flavor and sweetness. The alcoholic/nonalcoholic difference is probably enough to keep them as separate articles, particularly since alcoholic and non-alcoholic products can not be used interchangeably. Ursula, 11:56, 17 November 2006 (EST)

(Note: Ursula is user:128.205.231.232 on history).

If you go to cordial, that meaning is covered there; or rather, the liqueur article is linked to. (I appreciate that some would contend that there are subtle differences between a liqueur and an alcoholic cordial). Fourohfour 19:43, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

You absolutely cannot merge medicinal cordial into squash! They are not even close to similar. It would be like merging whisky and bread, just because both are made from grains. Doubtless they have a merged history at some point but they couldn't be confused now. I'm removing the tag.Grace Note 10:38, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Difference between cordial and squash

When sorting out the different meanings of squash, I attempted to find out the difference between squash and cordial, and couldn't find any definitive answer because, The claim that

The difference between a squash and a cordial is the concentration of fruit juice. Squash have at least 30% fruit, whereas cordial is normally around the 10 - 15% area.

has been made by 193.130.87.58. Since all the other definitions have been vague, and there is no context for the claim, I'd like a reference, particularly as meanings seem to vary around the world. Maybe this is just the legal definition in one country? Maybe it *is* a commonly accepted definition, but it needs clarifying. Thanks. Fourohfour 10:27, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

I looked on some supermarket shelves in the UK and found very confusing drinks terminology.

For example: D'arbo use the term "fruit syrup", Ocean Spray - "concentrated juice drink", Sainbury's - "high juice squash", Vimto - "concentrated fruit juice drink" and others using the term "cordial". 30 July 2007 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.131.49.168 (talk • contribs).

Well, as with a lot of things, I guess that the informal terms overlap a lot. I would also assume that the choice of name says as much about marketing and image as it does about the drink itself. Fourohfour 22:22, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Further to my look at UK drinks terminology: I took a closer look at the ingredients listed and was surprised to find some "cordials" do not contain any fruit juice! instead they have fruit "flavours". In contrast, a number of fruit concentrates contain up to 80% of fruit juice and can provide a tasty drink even at a dilution of up to 1 part concentrate to 8 or 9 parts water. 4 August 2007

There does not seem to be a legal definition of either term (except in Norway). Historically the words "cordial" comes from a heart remedy (cor) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cordial_(medicine) and "squash" possibly comes from the action; squash(crush) fruit (as in squash lemons -> lemon squash) - found support for this in a blog post http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/wordofmouth/2010/sep/07/consider-squash-cordial - it seems to makes sense that if you squash lemons you get lemon squash but have not found support for this notion anywhere else - anyone? Zenopus (talk) 12:28, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

I'm not sure if the term 'Squash' exists at all in Australia as a syrup (Its used to describe carbonated lemon drinks). Could it be that Squash is the UK variant, and cordial is more dominant in Australia / NZ? Clovis Sangrail (talk) 08:10, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

"Other dilutants such as lemonade may be used instead of water"

Other dilutants such as lemonade may be used instead of water.

Maybe so, but is that the intention? I mean, you could dilute it with whisky or sulphuric acid, but so what? I'd also point out that diluting it with lemonade would likely result in more strength/sweetness than would diluting it with water, since the lemonade already includes sugar and flavouring. But the bottles don't mention this "use" at all. Fourohfour 14:19, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree. Unless we can find a source that specifically notes this, it should be cut. Grace Note 10:42, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Use of the word 'syrup'

I'm a bit concerned about the use of the word 'syrup' here. Most squash, in the UK at least, is not viscous as one would expect from a syrup (contrast fruit syrups popular elsewhere in Europe). Sugar-free squash is also popular, which doesn't seem to jibe with the use of the word 'syrup' (usually implying sugar syrup) at all. Maybe the word 'concentrate' would be better? 86.90.244.119 19:09, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree; I changed this, and don't feel it affects the quality or universality of the article in a negative way. Fourohfour 14:29, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Is it like Kool-Aid?

I'm in America, so as far as I know we don't have the drink here. Is it something you could liken to our Kool-Aid, or is it different? --Col.clawhammer 09:01, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Kind of, but it always comes in liquid concentrate form, not powder. Fourohfour 11:44, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

From what I remember from visiting the USA, the main similarity is that both drinks are popular with children. But, Kool-Aid is a mix of artificial flavourings and colourings, is very cheap, and is only (more or less) drunk by children. Squash (in the UK) is also drunk by adults, is usually made from real fruit juice, may use sugar and/or artificial sweetener, and it isn't necessarily cheap (prices range from 20p for a litre to a few pounds). There are luxury brands, and organic versions, even Prince Charles' company makes a range.

It's also used to flavour some alcoholic drinks, e.g. Snakebite (beer cocktail). ƕ (talk) 11:26, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

I have nothing to add, I'm just snickering over "Kook-Aid." (I'm old enough to remember Jonestown, so it's morbidly funny.) Okay, actually I do have something to add: I think of myself as pretty cosmopolitan, have a lot of British friends, but I'd never heard of "squash." Would something about the regions it's found in be appropriate early in the article, or am I being too US-centric? 99.117.182.223 (talk) 03:15, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

See my edit of the article this date. Wahrmund (talk) 16:13, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

What's it made from? Pumpkins?

Did anyone realize that the article does not actually say that orange squash is made from oranges and lemon squash from lemons? Seems like an important bit of information. The whole article is poorly written and makes all kinds of assumptions about what the reader already knows. It needs a complete rewrite by someone who has a bit more cosmopolitan view of what real information is. This one is vague, non-informative about essential matters and is generally a failure.

Agreed. The essential ingredients are water, fruit juice, sugar (or sweeteners) and citric acid.

"Squash, such as lemon squash made from lemons and orange squash made from oranges, is a juice-based drink popular in much of the world." That might make a better lead.

The article also left out the vitally important detail that people frequently make their own squash at home from the fruit itself, and that restaurants (or food service providers, at least) sometimes serve squash made from actual fruit. It's as if real people do not exist without a corporation making a profit selling them something in a package. Halfelven (talk) 01:08, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

You can also make squash drinks out of other fruits - although lemons and oranges are the most common (limes make lime cordial, for some reason they don't use the term squash there?), there is also blackcurrant squash made with blackcurrants, pineapple squash with you guessed it pineapples (I've also seen Orange & Pineapple as a combination), and even using the actual squash fruit - that's where it gets confusing, because then what you have is a drink called Squash Squash (yes really) KoopaCooper (talk) 19:13, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

France

In France it is common place to find that cordial is of a greater strength than squash. I would always recommend concoting a provisional mix to make sure one has used the optimal ratios for the beverage in question. As you were AS x

Australia

Squash in Australia is normally a fizzy, cloudy lemon flavoured drink (sometimes referred to as lemon squash or club squash). Non carbonated flavoured drink concentrates are known as cordial (eg orange, raspberry, tropical fruits cordial...). Ozdaren (talk) 12:20, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

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Disadvantages of low-sugar squash

Apart from being hard to read as it's just a long block of text, I seriously doubt the relevance or accuracy of most of the claims made.

The vitamin content of something that uses less juice shouldn't be listed as disadvantage - neither the lower content of sugar, which is the main reason for making it low-sugar in the first place.

Does anyone seriously count a fruity drink towards the daily recommended fruits/vegetables? I've heard this reason with regard to smoothies, but at least those are 100% fruit (or should be, I think?).

Also, the (far too large) part about artificional sweeteeners looks wrong to me. I've yet to see a convincing argument why artificial sweeteners should cause a craving for sweetness (I've heard about it being used for pig farming - they simply prefer sweet food, as do we).

The warning about Aspartame is, in my opinion, partly wrong and partly too much. Mentioning of phenylalanine is OK, but it's on every label anyway, I think. (It is in Europe, at least).

Maybe I picked the wrong template? Was my first time, wasn't sure what to use. First impulse was to delete it, but who says I'm right on all accounts?... --Cyberman TM (talk) 09:02, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

Is MiO a squash?

By this definition, wouldn't MiO be a squash? MiO is pretty popular in America, we just don't call that kind of thing a squash, we just call it MiO, in the same way that people usually refer to searching the internet as "to google" even though you might be using bing or yahoo or another search engine... 67.4.226.55 (talk) 01:02, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

It's not a squash because it doesn't contain any fruit juice. Apparently it doesn't even contain real sugar. Wahrmund (talk) 02:21, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

So all squashes have to have real fruit juice. Ok. 67.4.226.55 (talk) 23:16, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

Scandinavia

The article currently claims that squash is popular in Scandinavia, referring to a similar product known as "saft" or "saftevand" in Scandinavian languages. It should be pointed out, however, that in order for a product to be labeled 'saft' in Norway it has to contain at least 50% juice (by weight), which means it is arguably a different product, since my understanding is that there are no similar juice content requirements for squash. On the other hand, requirements are not as stringent in other Scandinavian countries and in colloquial Norwegian any fruit-flavored concentrated syrup diluted with water before consumption is typically called 'saft'. As such, I am not sure whether this really requires further clarification in the article, so I would like to get some opinions before I go ahead and change anything.Maitreya (talk) 11:12, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

Double strength squash

"Squash is prepared by combining one part concentrate with four or five parts water (carbonated or still). Double-strength squash and traditional cordials, which are thicker, are made with two parts concentrate."

"When your squash is twice as strong, you use twice as much."

Hmm. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.227.224.63 (talk) 15:29, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

The above is the wrong way around. "When your squash is twice as strong, you use twice as much." should be "When your squash is twice as strong, you use t̶w̶i̶c̶e̶ half as much." This mistake made it to the article "Double-strength squash [is] made with two parts concentrate." (implying the same amount of water). Zenopus (talk) 11:36, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

Package information on Tesco Double-Strength Whole Lemon Squash suggests one part concentrate to nine parts water.

"Traditional cordials" is too vague, and could even mean alcoholic drinks. I'm not aware that 'cordial' is more concentrated than standard squash concentrate. I associate cordials with poor-quality squash concentrate used as a flavouring or for dilution to squash in licenced bars. The reference to cordials might just be edited out?

Double-concentrate is not perceptibly thicker, that is, glutinous or opaque.

Jivingfrog (talk) 14:23, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

Advertising section

Is it just me, or is the 'Advertising' section entirely superfluous? Most of the advertising methods listed therein can be applied to virtually any product, and are not specific to squash marketing. 193.169.217.73 (talk) 19:01, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

Barley Water

Barley Water is distinct from (or a subset of) squash. It does not contain only the ingredients stated, but also finely ground barley solids. Culturally it is associated with the Wimbledon tennis championships in the UK, via sponsorship and consumption as an energy drink. Jivingfrog (talk) 13:53, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

Terminology

'"Cordial", "dilute juice", and "squash" are similar products'

- is this the same as "dilutin' juice" in the earlier section? Is it also called "diluting juice"? I that some sources refer to "dilutables" to mean squash concentrates - http://www.thegrocer.co.uk/home/topics/dilutables-makeover/67723.article

"Squash should not sometimes simply be called "dilute" because it must be drunk neat."

- I can't make sense of this. - I don't think it's the job of Wikipedia to have an opinion on what people should call things, though it's fine to quote a source with such an opinion. - If sources use different terminology (dilute, diluting, dilutable), creating confusion, I think it's legitimate to clarify that.

Jivingfrog (talk) 14:56, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

Terminology in the United States and Canada

Quote from the article on Liqueur:

In some parts of the United States and Canada, liqueurs may be referred to as cordials, or schnapps.[3][4] This can cause confusion as in the United Kingdom a cordial would refer to a non-alcoholic concentrated fruit syrup, typically diluted to taste and consumed as a non-carbonated soft drink.

This article should be edited accordingly. Oaklandguy (talk) 18:31, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

Respectfully disagree. This article, in part describing the somewhat interchangeable uses of the terms 'squash' and 'cordial', both fruit- or fruit juice-based beverages, appears to be written from a British perspective and should remain as is for that reason. However, in order to *accurately* cover the term 'cordial', as it is understood in the United States (along with possibly Canada and some other English-speaking countries), as a liqueur variant, a separate article for that specific usage would be in order, along with a broader disambiguation of the term that would define both usages equally, but, separately. Additionally, the term 'squash', as a beverage, isn't used in the United States, so, to insert the US-based usage of the term 'cordial' into this article would be a mistake and would likely cause even more confusion. They are clearly two separate drinks and do not belong in the same article. 2601:543:4200:73E0:5864:B375:D019:EBBC (talk) 05:26, 21 February 2022 (UTC)