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Jack Teixeira

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WP:BLP1E. This is the suspect in the 2023 Pentagon document leaks, from which his notability entirely derives. Most of the article describes him in the context of these leaks, and his biography is otherwise unremarkable. It is possible that during and after his likely trial, enough will be written about him as a person to warrant a separate article, but we are not yet at that stage. For the time being, he is best covered in a "suspect" subsection of the article about the leaks, which may then be split off per WP:SS if it becomes too large. Sandstein 14:42, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Draftify for now, until the story has some time to be looked at and reported on in the media. This is still ongoing and it's probalby TOOSOON. Oaktree b (talk) 19:58, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

NOTE: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Law, Military, and United States of America. Sandstein 14:42, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: "We generally should avoid having an article on a person when each of three conditions is met: "3. If the event is not significant or the individual's role was either not substantial or not well documented." There is already significant coverage, and his role was clearly substantial. Esowteric + Talk + Breadcrumbs 14:48, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Update: WP:BLPCRIME is worth considering. Esowteric + Talk + Breadcrumbs 17:18, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
WP:BLPCRIME includes "A living person accused of a crime is presumed innocent until convicted by a court of law", so that aspect seems to undermine the suggestion that "his role was clearly substantial" in the event; the content of the 2023 Pentagon document leaks article also does not appear to describe a clearly substantial role. Beccaynr (talk) 03:22, 15 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep — The continuous coverage of Teixeira, with articles on who he is, just barely passes this article. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 14:52, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Draftify He will be notable upon conviction most likely, but currently being formally a suspect may not be enough for an article. I suspect he will be convicted eventually, so I'd say draftify rather than delete. Brandmeister^talk 14:55, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
MERGE into 2023 Pentagon document leaks. conman33 (. . .talk) 14:59, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Draftify per Brandmeister. Mooonswimmer 15:16, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

NOTE: This discussion has been included in the list of Massachusetts-related deletion discussions. Skynxnex (talk) 15:17, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per Esowteric. Thriley (talk) 15:18, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Draftify per other comments. I'd rather see this parked until the justice system runs its course. Right now there's too much white noise around the whole thing.Intothat darkness 15:20, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: I suspect that in the coming weeks and months, we will find out a lot more about the subject, along with his involvement and the extent of this leak and crime. As others have said above, Teixeira's role was significant, and was both substantial and well documented. — That Coptic Guy (let's talk?) 15:25, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per @Esowteric. His role has received significant coverage. I would also like to add the detail regarding his life before then and I suspect that more is to come. - Knightsoftheswords281 (Talk-Contribs) 15:54, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete a BLP nightmare that falls under both WP:BLP1E and WP:BLPCRIME. We have no idea what the outcome will be and we have people already saying he will be notable upon conviction. This can be covered in the article on the leaks. You simply cannot say his role was substantial unless he is found guilty. This should be redirected to the article on the leaks now and potentially deleted if the case falls apart. nableezy - 15:55, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
And for what makes this a BLP nightmare, consider the sentence currently in the article: Attorney General Merrick Garland announced that Teixeira had violated the Espionage Act. The Attorney General does not determine if somebody violated the law. Their office may charge somebody and they may say that they believe that somebody violated the law. We already have unambiguous BLP violations in this article, and that is what WP:BLPCRIME is meant to prevent. nableezy - 15:57, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Merge: Coverage suffers from WP:RECENTISM and this would fit nicely within the leak article itself without also being a walking BLP disaster. Curbon7 (talk) 15:57, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Strong keep Teixeira’s alleged leaks were notable, and continued over a significant period of time. His alleged actions were also unique, in that he is charged with sharing them casually with friends while playing Minecraft and other games. In short, he was an ANG member with significant access to classified intel who allegedly shared secret intelligence. The damage he is alleged to have done is only now being analyzed. He is notable, as charged. Should he be found not guilty, we can revisit this later. (Edited)Juneau Mike (talk) 16:02, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
This entire comment is a BLP violation. nableezy - 16:04, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
No. My entire comment represents charges filed in federal court. Juneau Mike (talk) 16:07, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
And you are claiming they are true. Please read WP:BLPCRIME, particularly the bit A living person accused of a crime is presumed innocent until convicted by a court of law. Accusations, investigations and arrests do not amount to a conviction. nableezy - 16:09, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
This article will stand the test of time. I stand by my original !vote. Juneau Mike (talk) 16:19, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
And it should be removed as a BLP violation ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. nableezy - 16:22, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note that since this comment the above !vote was modified in this diff. nableezy - 19:02, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Per WP:BLPBALANCE, The idea expressed in Eventualism—that every Wikipedia article is a work in progress, and that it is therefore okay for an article to be temporarily unbalanced because it will eventually be brought into shape—does not apply to biographies. Given their potential impact on biography subjects' lives, biographies must be fair to their subjects at all times, so revisiting this article after the criminal court process concludes does not appear supported. What appears to be fair to the subject at this time is to include relevant and WP:BLP policy-compliant content in the 2023 Pentagon document leaks article, and as noted in the AfD nomination, later consider a split per WP:SS as needed. Beccaynr (talk) 02:06, 15 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
In between Merge and Delete. I would say it is a case of WP:BLP1E, he is only notable for the leaks. (i normally don't read the "Wikipedia:____" pages regarding biographies as i don't usually work on them). At the same time, I would probably vouch to merge this page, albeit reduced to a few sections or so, due to the notability of the leaks. e (talk) 16:26, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Strong keep. Agree fully with potential "BLP nightmare" concerns, and fully support the pushback against editor statements here that presume guilt, such as that of @Juneau Mike. The former, and manifestations in-article of the latter, can be addressed by careful editing (ensuring termes like "accused" and "alleged" are used throughout). But it is simply a matter of fact that, in the modern era, guilty or not, an individual accused of such a high-profile crime, and taken into custody in such a public and dramatic fashion—they become notable, and remain notable, even if eventually absolved. As a point of comparison, see the history of the article on Richard Jewell; as long as this individual has to be in the public spotlight, WP does a potential service, in fully applying its policies and guidelines, in the presentation of the best independent, verifiable, source-derived information on the title subject. Absent that, the web-browsing public, at best, only has access to individual reports (and so will often lack the breadth and scope that an encyclopedic presentation can provide). And at worst, they are subject to the whims of recommendation engines and click-baiting/biasing practices that do not necessarily elevate the most reliable reporting in general search results. No, there is a service to be provided here, and it can be done without violating WP standards. [a former university faculty member] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:246:C700:F5:FD87:5034:59D4:3581 (talk) 16:32, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: my comments have been limited to the talk page. I haven’t edited the article. When I do in the future, my edits will take into account BLP. Juneau Mike (talk) 17:22, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
BLP applies everywhere, including the talk page and this AFD. nableezy - 17:37, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
No. You are allowed opinions in talk, so long as they are not presented as fact. My only error was not making it clear that these were my opinions. Juneau Mike (talk) 18:20, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Please read all of WP:BLP, or at least the first paragraph. nableezy - 18:47, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. This person has been in the top story of the front page of the New York Times for several days, so I think this fails #3 of WP:BLP1E. Agreed with the BLP concerns, though those can be handled within the article itself; they do not require deletion. The article already contains enough sourced material (and clear scope) to justify its existence separate from 2023 Pentagon document leaks. — brighterorange (talk) 16:37, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep as WP:BLP1E has an exception for those with a substantial and well-documented role in a significant event. Whereas 2023 Pentagon document leaks will focus on the content of the information and its foreign policy implications, this article highlights the unique political motivations of this suspect amid significant news coverage of right-wing extremism in the military presenting a national security risk.^[1]^[2]^[3] This article does not violate WP:BLPCRIME in describing anecdotes about the subject attributed to specific classmates and online users. However, the Espionage in the United States category needs to be removed until a potential conviction. I removed it a few hours back but it has returned, so noting the issue here to seek consensus. BluePenguin18 🐧 ( 💬 ) 16:39, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

^ The Editorial Board (2022-11-13). "Extremists in Uniform Put the Nation at Risk". The New York Times. ISSN 0362-4331. Retrieved 2023-04-14.
^ Ware, Jacob. "The Violent Far-Right Terrorist Threat to the U.S. Military". Council on Foreign Relations. Retrieved 2023-04-14.
^ Goldwasser, Rachel. "Extremism Among Active-Duty Military and Veterans Remains a Clear and Present Danger". Southern Poverty Law Center. Retrieved 2023-04-14.

Keep: Per Brighterorange and Esowteric. Hey man im josh (talk) 16:40, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

NOTE: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. Hey man im josh (talk) 16:40, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: Per WP:BLP1E and WP:BLPCRIME. —scs (talk) 16:44, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Strong keep As NPP for this article so might be seen as involved, but I am baffled we are spending time questioning the notability of an individual accused of causing a major international diplomatic crisis and whose actions have made global headlines, usually accompanied by a detailed biographical profile. He has already been compared to Snowden in the political impact of his actions (even though the way information was leaked here was different). He will remain notable on his own whether he is convicted or not. This, to me, is a completely misguided attempt to assign WP:RECENTISM and is not doing encyclopedia any good. We could be spending this time ensuring the quality of article is high, so that people who will inevitably be searching his name online get the most reliable information. This whole thread is a timesink. Ppt91 ^talk 16:51, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Merge into 2023 Pentagon document leaks. Per WP:BLP1E and WP:BLPCRIME, I don't believe there are currently grounds to establish a standalone article for this person. It may well be the case that he ultimately proves to be independently notable, but as things stand now, keeping his article on those grounds would be WP:CRYSTALBALL. ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 16:55, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
~~Please see the "Strong keep" reply above referencing Richard Jewell.~~ 2601:246:C700:F5:FD87:5034:59D4:3581 (talk) 17:00, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

WP:BLP1E requires "each of three conditions [to be] met". Please clarify that you understand that all three need to be met, and that you still find this to be the case. Cf. argument of @User:Brighterorange in their vote to “Keep”. 2601:246:C700:F5:FD87:5034:59D4:3581 (talk) 17:04, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I believe all three conditions have been met. While Teixeira has been charged in relation to the leaks, in the absence of a conviction it's not Wikipedia's place to state that he was responsible for them. Thus, it's not conclusively established whether Teixeira had any role in the event, let alone a substantial or well-documented one. It's plausible that he will ultimately become notable even if he is ruled to be uninvolved - your example of Richard Jewell demonstrates how even inaccurate allegations can become notable if they're sufficiently prominent - but, again, WP:CRYSTAL advises us not to write articles based on presumed future notability. ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 17:32, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Keep or Weak Merge into 2023 Pentagon document leaks, the subject has achieved a somewhat significant level of notability through his actions, however this level of notability is (in my opinion), just barely enough to warrant an individual article, however I am split on the manner so I personally believe either keeping the article or merging it with 2023 Pentagon document leaks would suffice. Dellwood546 (talk) 18:16, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Merge or Draftify into article on leaks. Subject is not notable enough by himself to need a whole article until further developments. Frzzl (talk) 18:29, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment An article for Faisal Shahzad was created on May 10, 2010. He wasn’t convicted until almost six weeks later. I don’t believe a conviction is necessary to establish notability. One can be a notable defendant. Juneau Mike (talk) 18:56, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep -- This individual was arrested by a large military contingent including helicopters, armored vehicles, and manned by heavily armed soldiers with full military gear. It makes sense to conclude from this that the United States military considers this individual to be an extreme threat that must be intercepted in a manner that sends a strong message. Such a massive show of force by the US military against a specific individual makes this person worthy of public documentation such as a Wikipedia page summarizing important known facts. There should be a distinction between this individual and the larger issue of the 2023 Pentagon document leaks which is an issue touching on all aspects of production and control of the documents in question. M0llusk (talk) 19:06, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep -- This is a controversial article. CastJared (talk) 19:15, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: In accordance with WP:BLPCRIME. If he is proven guilty, an article can be made, until then he is considered innocent. There is no hurry. Şÿℵדαχ₮ɘɼɾ๏ʁ 19:46, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Per what Brighterorange said. Seekallknowledge (talk) 20:00, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: I think WP:GS/RUSUKR applies and non-EC comments should be struck. I've also requested page protection at WP:RFPP. RAN1 (talk) 20:07, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - clearly passed significant-coverage test. Neutrality^talk 22:05, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
And what about the last line of WP:NSUSTAINED? nableezy - 22:14, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Teixeira is clearly not "a low-profile individual." Neutrality^talk 22:40, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
You might have a point if that is what it says. But, unsurprisingly because it would render moot the entire BLP1E policy, that is not what it says. What it says if that person otherwise remains, or is likely to remain, a low-profile individual. Otherwise remains, meaning outside of this event, that we already have an article on, is the person expected to have some profile. nableezy - 22:50, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Not a single event situation. The subject of the article is accused of disclosing classified documents over a series of months. And there are multiple events here: (1) the alleged conduct; (2) the investigation; (3) the indictment; (4) the arraignment; (5) whatever happens next. Each event generates global press coverage, expert analysis, etc. In any case, “1E” is a guideline (“generally avoid”), not Holy Writ. The subject the center of a globally significant maelstrom involving international affairs, national security, a high-profile criminal prosecution, congressional and DoD investigations, etc. Neutrality^talk 01:38, 15 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
You seriously dont see a problem on an article on Wikipedia about a 21 year old in which nothing but allegations and accusations are included? And since the subject is presumed innocent of disclosing classified documents over a series of months, that rationale simply does not stand scrutiny. The "event" here is the WP:NEVENT subject, that is 2023 Pentagon document leaks. nableezy - 01:43, 15 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - I'm not sure I understand any of the rationales not to keep; they are outdated, at any rate. Moncrief (talk) 22:38, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep or delete together with Chelsea Manning and Edward Snowden. Consistency is important.--Maxaxa (talk) 23:28, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep, for now. WP:BLP1E states that "If that person otherwise remains, and is likely to remain, a low-profile individual." Based on others who have leaked information at this scale -- Reality Winner comes to mind -- I find it highly unlikely that he will remain a low-profile individual. Condition #3 most likely is not met as well given the sheer international scope of the fallout. Gnomingstuff (talk) 23:40, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment -- This also seems to be a place where WP:BLP1E and WP:NSUSTAINED set different thresholds, though one links to the other. My comment above is based on the three conditions in BLP1E. Gnomingstuff (talk) 00:00, 15 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Merge per WP:BLP1E. There may not be much to merge to 2023 Pentagon document leaks, because sensational coverage about Teixeira should generally be excluded per WP:NOT and WP:BLP policy, and I removed anonymously-attributed content per WP:BLPGOSSIP. Per WP:BLP1E#1, all of the coverage is in the context of this single event. Per WP:BLP1E#2, Teixeira does not appear to meet the criteria outlined for a high-profile person in the WP:LOWPROFILE essay, which includes, A low-profile individual is someone who has been covered in reliable sources without seeking such attention, often as part of their connection with a single event; a merge is favored at this time to avoid giving undue weight to the event. And per WP:BLP1E#3, the role of this individual is "not well documented" because these are currently allegations. Beccaynr (talk) 00:58, 15 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Merge to 2023 Pentagon document leaks. This person doesn't appear to be notable outside of this one event. The article can be split again if notability is established, not before. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 01:41, 15 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per the 3 conditions brought up by Esowteric. Abstrakt (talk) 02:59, 15 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. This person is going to have continued notability as with Snowden and Manning. This was the Biggest security leak in ten years, and during a War.Ryoung122 04:47, 15 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

[1] The Editorial Board (2022-11-13). "Extremists in Uniform Put the Nation at Risk". The New York Times. ISSN 0362-4331. Retrieved 2023-04-14.

[2] Ware, Jacob. "The Violent Far-Right Terrorist Threat to the U.S. Military". Council on Foreign Relations. Retrieved 2023-04-14.

[3] Goldwasser, Rachel. "Extremism Among Active-Duty Military and Veterans Remains a Clear and Present Danger". Southern Poverty Law Center. Retrieved 2023-04-14.

[1]

[2]

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@@ Line 75: / Line 75: @@
 *'''Merge''' to [[2023 Pentagon document leaks]]. This person doesn't appear to be notable outside of this one event. The article can be split again if notability is established, [[WP:CRYSTAL|not before]]. [[User:Thebiguglyalien|<span style="color: darkgreen">''Thebiguglyalien''</span>]] <small>([[User talk:Thebiguglyalien|<span style="color: sienna">talk</span>]])</small> 01:41, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
 *'''Keep''' per the 3 conditions brought up by Esowteric. [[User:Abstrakt|Abstrakt]] ([[User talk:Abstrakt|talk]]) 02:59, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
+*'''Keep'''. This person is going to have continued notability as with Snowden and Manning. This was the Biggest security leak in ten years, and during a War.[[User:Ryoung122|<span style="color:red">Ryoung</span><span style="color:blue">122</span>]] 04:47, 15 April 2023 (UTC)