Talk:The Great Escape (film)

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The aircraft escape was inspired by the true life undertaking of OSS operative, Bernard Zosch. Zosch of German decent was stationed in Berlin during much of WW II. When he was identified as a US spy and subsequently pursued by the SS, Zosch evaded capture. He entered a German military base, stole a small military aircraft, and flew safely to Spain where he successfully reunited with the OSS. Ultimately, Zosch was transported to the US where lived for the rest of his life.

John Dortch Lewis debate?

The Casting section states "Steve McQueen, in a role based on at least two pilots, David M. Jones and John Dortch Lewis (but see debate)". I don't see any debate covered in the article body, so it must be referring to the footnote. That link just points to a forum post on H-Net in which someone asks for verification of Lewis's involvement. Unless I'm missing something, there's only one other post in that thread, and it just consists of referrals to books on the subject of the escape. This doesn't seem to meet the criteria of a reliable source and I'd be inclined to remove both the footnote and the "(but see debate)". Nick Number (talk) 18:11, 18 March 2015 (UTC)

In the absence of any comments, I've removed the unsupported information. Nick Number (talk) 22:06, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

It's back in there now, and it's false. The McQueen character was simply invented. American journalists have retrospectively tried to identify the character with real people, but he was just made up, to provide a role for Steve McQueen, for box-office reasons. No American took part in the Great Escape, as far as I know. Khamba Tendal (talk) 18:01, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

Sorry, but no. At least one and possibly two of the film characters were based on real people, Hilts and Hendley - never mind that Jones at least has his own wikipedia page clearly establishing presence at Sagan and activity in the Great Escape, and Dortch's bona fides being established in public documents such as his NY Times obituary.

Worse, the introduction to the article asserts: "The film was based on the real events but depicts a heavily fictionalised version of the escape with numerous compromises for its commercial appeal, such as including Americans among the escapees (none of whom were actually American). The characters are based on real men, and in some cases are composites of several men. However, many details of the actual escape attempt were changed for the film, and the role of American personnel in both the planning and the escape was largely fabricated."

That too is nonsense. There was at least one Eagle squadron pilot, Charles Cook, in the camp at the time who could have served as the basis of the Hendley character; and as detailed in Brickhill's book, there was at least one American escapee heavily involved in both the planning and diversions for the Great Escape - Johnny Dodge, "The Artful Dodger" - and a very strong candidate as the real-life individual forming the basis for McQueen's character, Hilts.

Just how one can be unaware of this individual is beyond me, for he was quite (in)famous. Not only was Dodge the grandson of a colourful US Civil War general, but related by marriage to Churchill, which may be why he was not one of 'the fifty' shot 'while escaping'. Furthermore, besides his US citizenship, he was also a naturalised British subject. Initially commissioned in the Royal Navy, while fighting in Gallipoli Dodge became close with others of the military pantheon, including Freyberg and Rupert Brooke, so transferred to the British Army, becoming a much-decorated and distinguished soldier. After a series of escapes in WWII he arranged for his papers to be forged showing him to be an RAF officer, one of many exploits earning him the "Artful Dodger' moniker; he maintained that masquerade for the rest of the war, right up to the celebrated moment when the Germans pulled him from Sachsenhausen concentration camp to negotiate surrender of the Reich! Most of this is easily accessible online at the Dodge family website, or from Brickhill's book! On which the film was based, so without question the production crew was aware of him. 115.188.60.30 (talk) 21:11, 13 January 2019 (UTC)

John Dodge was American-born, but he was British and serving in the British forces. It was Harry Day who arranged for the Germans to accredit Dodge to the RAF when he was actually Army, and the Luftwaffe went along with this because Dodge had been captured by Luftwaffe troops so they were prepared to keep him in the Luftwaffe PoW system. And Dodge was quite considerably older than the Steve McQueen character Hilts, being nearly 50 by the time of the Great Escape. He was a prospective Conservative Party Parliamentary candidate, a role in which it is hard to picture McQueen somehow. So Hilts was hardly based on Johnnie Dodge. The escape tunnel ran from the British sector of the camp, so it would have been difficult, even impractical, for the USAAF men to take part. The three RAF Eagle Squadrons, their Spitfires and their pilots, including Charles Cook, were transferred to the USAAF to become the 4th Fighter Group on 29 September 1942, the very day that Cook (and indeed all 12 of the 133rd Squadron) were shot down or force-landed in northern France on an escort mission that turned disastrous due to unpredicted winds -- they failed to RV with the bombers, then descended to try and land near what they thought was Southampton but was actually the Cherbourg area. Bill Edwards from Arizona, a squadron friend of Cook's who missed that mission because he was in London formalising his transfer to the USAAF, recalled that Cook ended up in Stalag Luft III but that 'there were no Americans on that escape.' https://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ww2peopleswar/stories/90/a7820390.shtml Presumably Cook was in the US section of the camp, so couldn't realistically be included in the plan. Or he may not have wanted to escape; most PoWs didn't. David Jones apparently took part in the digging, but was not one of the escapers. Khamba Tendal (talk) 13:49, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

The irony of Steve McQueen's famous capture - the German soldier merely wanted a short ride on the back of the motorcycle

Steve McQueen is famously making his way to the Swiss frontier on the stolen motorcycle, and encounters a group of German soldiers. Not understanding what one of them says to him, he flees and the aroused suspicion directly leads to his famous capture right on the border. Ironically I believe that the German didn't initially think McQueen was suspicious, and merely asked for a short circular ride on the back of the motorcycle - his suspicion only being aroused by McQueen fleeing instead. So had McQueen understood the simple request he would have escaped - his capture an wasn't an inevitable consequence of German precautions over the mass escape. It would take a German speaker to see that irony and I'm unsure if the director meant to be ironic, but it may be worth adding given the famous motorcycle escape attempt. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.99.210.174 (talk) 16:07, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

Cast listing in the closing credits does not follow the same billing order as in the opening credits

It may be noted that, in the film's opening credits, 27 cast members are listed. Below is a reproduction of the form in which the cast is indicated:

THE MIRISCH COMPANY                presents

STEVE McQUEEN

JAMES GARNER

RICHARD ATTENBOROUGH              in

THE      GREAT             ESCAPE

co-starring    JAMES DONALD CHARLES BRONSON DONALD PLEASENCE

JAMES COBURN HANNES MESSEMER   DAVID McCALLUM

GORDON JACKSON     JOHN LEYTON     ANGUS LENNIE

with    Nigel Stock     Robert Graf      Jud Taylor       Hans Reiser        Harry Riebauer         William Russell          Robert Freitag

Ulrich Beiger    George Mikell     Lawrence Montaigne      Robert Desmond       Til Kiwe        Heinz Weiss         Tom Adams          Karl-Otto Alberty

The on-screen closing credits, however, list names of only the first 14 cast members, in reverse order from that of the opening credits. Each of the 14 cast members, starting with Robert Graf and ending with Steve McQueen, is depicted in a very brief film clip showing the actor in close-up or medium shot, with the actor's name and the name of the character he played printed at the bottom of the screen. The character names of the remaining 13 cast members are not shown on-screen. Below is a reproduction of the form in which the cast is depicted in the closing credits:

• ROBERT GRAF as Werner "The Ferret"
• NIGEL STOCK as Cavendish "The Surveyor"
• ANGUS LENNIE as Ives "The Mole"
• JOHN LEYTON as Willie "Tunnel King"
• GORDON JACKSON as MacDonald "Intelligence"
• DAVID McCALLUM as Ashley - Pitt "Dispersal"
• HANNES MESSEMER as Von Luger "The Kommandant"
• JAMES COBURN as Sedgwick "Manufacturer"
• DONALD PLEASENCE as Blythe "The Forger"
• CHARLES BRONSON as Danny "Tunnel King"
• JAMES DONALD as Ramsey "The SBO"
• RICHARD ATTENBOROUGH as Bartlett "Big X"
• JAMES GARNER as Hendley "The Scrounger"
• STEVE McQUEEN as HILTS "The Cooler King"

                                                                            Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 01:15, 8 February 2019 (UTC)

"in popular culture" new adittion

im surprised that in popular culture the reference to the film in metal gear solid 3 has not been added, seeing as metal gear is... pretty damn popular. much more than an english band nobody outside england knows, while mgs3 is popular worldwide can someone who knows how to write add this?

for the uncultured, heres a link with the reference: https://youtube/yq20lr1As3w?t=1147 KRISHANKO (talk) 12:32, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

Movie’s setting

The actual Great Escape took place in March 1944. So, let’s put that as the date in the film, that must mean that before the 4th of July scene, Hlitts’ line “Seventeen days, the seventh of July”, must mean that the scene takes place on 20 June 1943. The real prison was established in March 1942, and Bushell arrived in October. Von Luger says, “past four years” indicating the film takes place in 1942, and despite what some sources say, original pre-publicity packets said that the film starts in 42. 2.97.27.181 (talk) 11:01, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

No, we don't know the film is supposed to be the same date. You'll need references and films are not historically accurate. At this point everything you said above is WP:Original research. Canterbury Tail talk 14:58, 17 April 2020 (UTC)

Alvin Vogtle

In the Alvin Vogtle article there is a source claiming that the character played by Steve McQueen was "loosely based" on former POW Alvin Vogtle. This article says the character was based on "at least three pilots" so we have some sources/evidence the character is a compilation of multiple persons. My question is this: Are there any other sources that support Vogtle as one of those multiple persons? 47.176.126.162 (talk) 01:44, 17 September 2021 (UTC)

Having asked the above question I have started to look for sources on my own and found several, the most appropriate one to my question being from the Washington Post --> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/02/21/why-is-the-obama-administration-using-taxpayer-money-to-back-a-nuclear-plant-thats-already-being-built/ "The character Steve McQueen played in the 1963 film “The Great Escape” was based on recollections of several veterans, including Vogtle." 47.176.126.162 (talk) 02:10, 17 September 2021 (UTC)