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Numbers

Numbers, from what source? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.217.70.80 (talk) 19:12, 26 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

400.000 ? ? ? Mongolia and central asia have got 2 milion people(including kids womans and old people) in bc 200-300 chinese authours don't telled truth.

According to history records, 400,000 includes almost the entire army from Xiong nu clans and Han State of Han Dynasty (under King Xin of Han who betrayed Han Dynasty) 175.142.127.104 (talk) 08:29, 7 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Faulty source

The second source that the Huns were 30-40 thousand is wrong. I checked the source. There is no phrase "30-40 thousand". Ch'unwei9 (talk) 03:08, 5 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Faulty source

Gumilev does not call the Hun army 30-40 thousand, but 20-40 thousand. Ch'unwei9 (talk) 03:43, 5 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Faulty source

I checked the third source. Han doesn't just call his army 320 thousand. It says 320-400 thousand. Ch'unwei9 (talk) 03:46, 5 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Siege, not battle

According to Liu Kun, Lu Chen, and Their Writings in the Transition to the Eastern Jin, David R. Knechtges, "Chinese Literature: Essays, Articles", Reviews (CLEAR), Vol. 28 (Dec., 2006), pp. 1-66, this wasn't a battle, but a siege. Also, this wasn't a Xiongnu victory, but a defeat since their siege was unsuccessful.

"Baideng refers to Baideng Mountain, located northeast of modern Datong, Shanxi. It was here where the Xiongnu surrounded the Former Han emperor Gaozu for seven days. Using a strategy devised by Chen Ping, he was able to relieve the siege. Chen Ping was later enfeoffed as Marquis of Quni. See Shiji 56.2057, Han shu 40.2045."--Kansas Bear (talk) 17:44, 5 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Number of the Xiongnu army

The Xiongnu Army recorded in Chinese chronicles like Han Shu or Sima Qian's Shi-ji, which is said to be 400.000, is clearly an exaggeration;

We can provide some sources based on the Strength of Xiongnu in other battles of the state and simple math calculations and geography knowledge.

According to Nicola Di Cosmo, who is an expert on East Asian History, Xiongnu army was 10 times exaggerated;

“This is an obviously exaggerated number, especially because not all the northern nomadic peoples had yet been included in the Hsiung-nu confederation. On the basis of later military encounters, I would estimate that this figure is inflated by a factor of ten.”^[1]

Another important source written by Lev Gumilev, The Hsiung-nu (1960), original version in Russian does a simple math calculation with the help of geography knowledge. Although Chinese historians write that the number of the Xiongnu army was 400,000, this number is greatly exaggerated, since the total population of the nomads would not be enough to raise such an army, and since each soldier had at least two horses and these horses would be scattered around the castle and fed with grass during the siege, the size of the Xiongnu army should have been roughly limited by the amount of meadows. Accordingly, the number of the Xiongnu army must be between 20,000 and 40,000.^[2]

I've read the other historians books, and some of them claimed the Xiongnu's army as 400.000 but these claims were based on Shi-ji or Han Shu, i think it is wrong to put debunked and exaggerated army numbers in the Battle Box. @Underbar dk Hunnic Enjoyer (talk) 16:48, 11 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

^ Di Cosmo, Nicola (2002). Ancient China and its Enemies: The Rise of Nomadic Power in East Asian History. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. p. 192. ISBN 0 521 77064 5.
^ Gumilev, Lev (1960). The Hsiung-nu (PDF). p. 79. ISBN 5 87583 066 2.

[1] Di Cosmo, Nicola (2002). Ancient China and its Enemies: The Rise of Nomadic Power in East Asian History. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. p. 192. ISBN 0 521 77064 5.

[2] Gumilev, Lev (1960). The Hsiung-nu (PDF). p. 79. ISBN 5 87583 066 2.

[1]

[2]

@@ Line 32: / Line 32: @@
 *"''Baideng refers to Baideng Mountain, located northeast of modern Datong, Shanxi. It was here where the Xiongnu surrounded the Former Han emperor Gaozu for seven days. Using a strategy devised by Chen Ping, he was able to relieve the siege. Chen Ping was later enfeoffed as Marquis of Quni. See Shiji 56.2057, Han shu 40.2045.''"--[[User:Kansas Bear|Kansas Bear]] ([[User talk:Kansas Bear|talk]]) 17:44, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
+== Number of the Xiongnu army ==
+The Xiongnu Army recorded in Chinese chronicles like Han Shu or Sima Qian's Shi-ji, which is said to be 400.000, is clearly an exaggeration;
+We can provide some sources based on the Strength of Xiongnu in other battles of the state and simple math calculations and geography knowledge.
+According to Nicola Di Cosmo, who is an expert on East Asian History, Xiongnu army was 10 times exaggerated;
+“This is an obviously exaggerated number, especially because not all the northern
+nomadic peoples had yet been included in the Hsiung-nu confederation. On the basis of later military encounters, I would estimate that this figure is inflated by a factor of ten.”<ref>{{cite book | last=Di Cosmo | first=Nicola | title= Ancient China and its Enemies: The Rise of Nomadic Power in East Asian History | year=2002 | publisher=Cambridge University Press | location=Cambridge | isbn= 0 521 77064 5  | page= 192 | url=https://www.academia.edu/5129526/Ancient_China_and_Its_Enemies}} </ref>
+Another important source written by Lev Gumilev, The Hsiung-nu (1960), original version in Russian does a simple math calculation with the help of geography knowledge.
+Although Chinese historians write that the number of the Xiongnu army was 400,000, this number is greatly exaggerated, since the total population of the nomads would not be enough to raise such an army, and since each soldier had at least two horses and these horses would be scattered around the castle and fed with grass during the siege, the size of the Xiongnu army should have been roughly limited by the amount of meadows. Accordingly, the number of the Xiongnu army must be between 20,000 and 40,000.<ref>{{cite book | last=Gumilev | first=Lev | title= The Hsiung-nu | year=1960 | isbn= 5 87583 066 2   | page=79 | url= https://www.xn--80abubbalb5cgec5b4kf.xn--p1ai/find/lib/mghunu.pdf }}</ref>
+I've read the other historians books, and some of them claimed the Xiongnu's army as 400.000 but these claims were based on Shi-ji or Han Shu, i think it is wrong to put debunked and exaggerated army numbers in the Battle Box. @[[User:Underbar dk|Underbar dk]] [[User:Hunnic Enjoyer|Hunnic Enjoyer]] ([[User talk:Hunnic Enjoyer|talk]]) 16:48, 11 December 2023 (UTC)