Talk:List of peace activists

Kees Koning

The notable Christian peace activist Kees Koning should be mentioned in the list. 77.169.5.33 (talk) 17:29, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

Sorry for the delay in replying. As always for this list, any candidate for inclusion should have an existing article. So please write an article on him first; he can then be added here if he meets the criteria for inclusion. Note that there is already an article for him on wp:nl, but a straight translation would not be suficient, as it lacks sources, so you would have to find and add them too (this appears to be a general problem with the Nederlands wiki). --NSH001 (talk) 09:49, 20 March 2023 (UTC)

Short descriptions of listed individuals

Would it not be better to try to include something more specific in each entry that explains in a few words why the person is listed than just "[nationality] peace activist" or the like. After all, if the person were not a "peace activist" then presumably they wouldn't be on this list at all. PDGPA (talk) 01:02, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

I agree. Also, this list needs clearer referencing. WP:PEOPLELIST requires that "membership in the list's group is established by reliable sources"–so a person should be described generally as a "peace activist" by independent reliable sources to be included in this list. Llll5032 (talk) 20:14, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

Henry Ford

The Henry Ford edit presents a perfect illustration of why the list needs consistent, articulated standards. Henry Ford did not "oppose" WWII, for example, so much as he opposed U.S. involvement in WWII, because he was virulently anti-semitic and therefore a Nazi sympathizer. This should not count as being a "peace activist" any more than a U.S. Communist's opposing U.S. involvement in WWII during the Hitler-Stalin pact. I would suggest that the proper criterion for inclusion here should be something like a principled opposition to war as such, or at least to certain forms of war (i.e., nuclear war, or unjust wars in the Catholic sense of that term), on religious, moral or general philosophical grounds (that war always produces more harm that benefit, for example), coupled with significant, noteworthy personal action in support of those beliefs. Opposition to certain wars, or a particular war, on political grounds (favoring victory for one side over the other) should not qualify. PDGPA (talk) 03:08, 20 March 2023 (UTC)

Henry Ford was added (by me) and then correctly quickly removed. Nothing broken here. But yes, I would personally trim the list to only those who really fit the existing and long-stable descriptor and worked or demonstrated for peace in a major way. Being a pacifist is not enough, although many are listed on that alone. Randy Kryn (talk) 03:28, 20 March 2023 (UTC)

Aaron Bushnell

I see that Aaron Bushnell has been added to this list. Does any source refer to him as a peace activist? Zanahary (talk) 04:38, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

Activist is not a protected or well defined term, there are several people on this page (Bertie Lewis, Selma Meyer and Jeff Sharlet) who were soldiers or otherwise even a the point of their death. I have found two articles referring to him as an "activist" and self-immolation is of course a form of protest with Norman Morrison also being included on this list.

The articles aren't from listed wikipedia sources however finding sources listing him with the specific phrase of "peace activist" is an extremely high bar for an addition to this page. Since I've linked two articles referring to him as such I'm going to revert the edit on the page. Galdrack (talk) 15:27, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

@

Galdrack

1. The sources you brought do not call him a peace activist
2. You are not an extended confirmed editor (you have only 160 edits). Therefore you do not have the right to make any edit on anything related to the Israeli Arab conflict, including the pro-Palestinian/anti-Israeli activities of Bushnell

Therefore I am going to revert your revert soon. Vegan416 (talk) 15:51, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

Both of them refer to him being an activist with his action (self-immolation) being accepted on the page already, it's a violent act though targeted at oneself kinda hard to tell if it's peaceful that way but there was already a precedent.

Thought this was outside the reach of that topic for editing but wasn't sure which is why I posted here before reverting the edit. TBH this seems like a reach to remove this content from the page since this talk piece has no comments and has only been placed for 5 days.

@WagePeace added it to the article I think it'd be good to get their rationale before removing this. Galdrack (talk) 16:04, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

@Galdrack

1. I see that WagePeace is not extended confirmed user either. That in itself is reason enough to remove his addition of Bushnell.
2. The problem with Bushnell is that there is no proof that his activism was aimed at peace. Rather it seem it was aimed in favor of Palestine and against Israel. I don't see how a person who said that no Israeli civilian is innocent, and therefore refused to condemn the Nova festival massacre, can be called a peace activist.

Despite all of that as a sign of good will I am willing to wait 3 more days to see if anyone can come with compelling argument against removing him from the list. Vegan416 (talk) 16:22, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

I’ve already removed it myself, since a discussion at that list’s Talk failed to produce a source. Zanahary (talk) 17:22, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

@Galdrack

See Wikipedia:Contentious topics/Arab–Israeli conflict section 4b Vegan416 (talk) 15:59, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the link Galdrack (talk) 16:05, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

@Galdrack: You asked above for my rationale for adding Bushnell to this list:

• Prior to his self-immolation, Bushnell described it as an "act of protest against the genocide of the Palestinian people." [Time]
• In the statement that he live-streamed just prior to setting himself on fire, Bushnell stated, "I will no longer be complicit in genocide." [Time]
• The Israeli newspaper, HaAretz, described Bushnell's act] as "in Protest of American Support of Gaza War." [HaAretz]

Thus Bushnell's act of self-immolation was a call for an end to the war and genocide and an end to US support of the war. Thus it was a call for peace.

WagePeace (talk) 19:44, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

@WagePeace

1. First of all, since you are not extended confirmed editor you didn't (and still don't) have the right to add him.
2. In his reddit account under the username acebush1, Bushnell wrote the following here: "To bring this into stark relief, there is the example of the music festival which the liberal states and media have made such a point of clutching their pearls over. "A music festival! How could it get more innocent than a music festival!?" That music festival was happening just three miles from Gaza, within site of the border wall. Imagine a similar event happening in the early days of the colonization of North America. Can you or I really say that Indigenous people are wrong for retaliating against colonizers who are rubbing their domination in their face?" And he also said : "You’re missing the point of my first comment which was that those people’s fun at the music festival was specifically built on Palestinian suffering. There are no innocent civilians in se[t]ller colonialism. Being a settler is inherently violent." And here he said: "Israel is a white supremacist, ethnonationalist, settler-colonial apartheid state. It was created by the UK 75 years ago and is propped up by US support. It has no right to exist". These sources show clearly that Bushnell was not interested in peace between Israel and the Palestinians but rather in the annihilation of Israel, and he doesn't mind at all if it is achieved by violence against civilians. That directly contradicts the definition of the people in this list of peace activists who (according to the preface of the article) are supposed to be advocating "non-military resolution of major territorial or ideological disputes through nonviolent means and methods". So he clearly doesn't belong in this list.

Vegan416 (talk) 20:08, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

@Galdrack, @Vegan416: I apologize if I did something I don't have the right to do. I would think that if I'm not allowed to do something, then Wikipedia would not allow me to do it.

I respectfully disagree with you guys about Bushnell. He was protesting violence against the Palestinians. He was calling for an end to that violence and an end to US support of that violence. I understand that you see it differently, and since you control the article, I guess Bushnell will remain excluded from it.

WagePeace (talk) 20:24, 9 June 2024 (UTC)