Talk:Tupac Shakur

Template:Maintained Template:V0.5 Template:WPCD-People

suge shot me

the article says this: In the first few seconds of the song "Intro/Bomb First (My Second Reply)" on the album The Don Killuminati: The 7 Day Theory, Shakur can be heard saying "Shoulda shot me".[42][43] Many theorists mistook the statement as "Suge shot me" or "Suge shot 'em" until confirmation by multiple audio tests and confirmation from members of The Outlawz.

I read the philadelphia weekly, and it does not say anything about the song. In addition, the other citiation, the mtv big urban myths cannotbe founded.

It seems to me that khadfi said "suge shot me" at the beginning of the song. The shoulda shot me just does not make logical sense since people did shoot him.

Where is the source for this multiple audio tests?

                      I too think it sounds like Khaddafi not 2pac.. - Cheise

Worldwide Album Sales

All Eyez On Me 16 Million? Until The End Of Time 8.9 Million? Greatest Hits 15 Million?

Are THESE CONFIRMED......Never heard such worldwide figures....Needs a Source otherwise I will delete these figures

You never know what you had until you lost it. - some wise chineseguy

Its said that he sold around 75 million alboums worldwide... 50 mill in America alone... those stats look to be too much for just three albums?? but thats just my opinion... no factfiling here.. lol

The numbers in the intro are confirmed and sourced (Guinness Book of World Records), and they are for more than 3 albums. Those numbers wise chineseguy quotes are not unreasonable, several of his albums are multi-multi-...-platinum. But if the figures are not sourced to RIAA or something then someone needs to add the source to them. SqlPac 19:23, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Tupac's 2007 album

Can sum1 post info on pac's next album. It should be out soon if it was planned for the first quarter of 2007 that laready past. yo nigga i love you,Sincerely yo cuzin spider.

hez goin to release a shitty album called niggahz rule

damn

Why won't anyone reply for my 2007 album question and why did they put a 2008 album if they don't even know about a 2007 album.

Peter Travers' Review

I challenge the following sentence from the article: 'His first starring role was in the 1992 movie Juice as Bishop, a trigger happy teen, for which he was hailed by Rolling Stone's Peter Travers as "the film's most magnetic figure."'

Travers' review does not say that. You should fix it. SqlPac 04:05, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Jada Pinkett

I challenge the following from the article: 'In the documentary Tupac: Resurrection, Shakur says, "Jada is my heart. She will be my friend for my whole life," and Smith calls Shakur "one of my best friends. He was like a brother. It was beyond friendship for us. The type of relationship we had, you only get that once in a lifetime." A poem written by Shakur titled "Jada" appears in his book, The Rose That Grew From Concrete, which also includes a poem dedicated to Smith called "The Tears in Cupid's Eyes".'

It does not add any value, it is trivia, and should be removed. SqlPac 04:08, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

I believe its there to back up the preceding statement that he was close friends with jada pinkett

Numbers

I challenge the following from the article: "After serving 11 months of his sentence, ..." According to the Manual of Style (Dates and Numbers), "11" should be spelled out as a word. SqlPac 04:19, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Commas

I challenge the following from the article: 'His second album, Strictly 4 My N.I.G.G.A.Z., was released in 1993. Heavily produced by Stretch and the Live Squad, the album generated two hits, "Keep Ya Head Up" and "I Get Around", , the latter featuring guest appearances by members of the Digital Underground.'

The second comma after "I Get Around" is superfluous and should be removed. SqlPac 04:23, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

I Get Around trivia

I challenge the following from the article: "It was originally going to be a Digital Underground track but instead Shock G gave it to Shakur."

It is trivia and does not add value to the article. SqlPac 04:23, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Name Pronunciation

Considering this article is being published in over 30 languages, you might consider adding the IPA pronunciation of Tupac's name to the article. SqlPac 04:47, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Wfy

There are over a dozen links that should be considered just in the intro. If you're going to link "cardiac arrest", for instance, then what's the justification for not linking "respiratory failure"? And how many people who aren't in the music business and don't frequent concerts know what a "roadie" is? I counted almost 30 new links that could be added just to the intro, although the list could be narrowed down a bit for some of the more common words (assuming "racial equality", "drug abuse", "alcohol abuse", and others are eliminated as being well-known enough outside of the U.S. to merit leaving them unlinked). Enjoy. SqlPac 04:47, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Book Trivia

I challenge the following from the article: "Steinberg has kept copies of the books that Tupac read, which include J.D. Salinger's Catcher in the Rye, Jamaica Kincaid's At the Bottom of the River, Herman Melville's Moby Dick, Eileen Southern's Music of Black Americans, and the feminist writings of Alice Walker and Robin Morgan. Most of these books were read before the age of 20."

This does not add any value to the article, it is trivia, and should be removed.

I have over a hundred more of these, and I'll feed them to you slowly once I see that these are properly handled. SqlPac 04:19, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

catcher in the rye is a great book btw :) --84.250.27.36 21:06, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

      I've seen with my own eyes the books that Tupac read,they are in Leila Steingberg's house!

Lex Vick

best rapper ever?

Hi, im new here and i was wondering if it is fair to put "has been ranked as best rapper ever" while so many other have been too.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Darth Caton (talk • contribs) 17:17, May 7, 2007 (UTC)

Please sign your posts with four tildes ~~~~. The actual quote is "Many fans, critics, and industry insiders rank him as the greatest rapper ever." It is verified, per Wikipedia's policy of Verifiability. The sheer number of fans, critics, and industry insiders who have ranked him the greatest makes it extremely hard to refute this fact. Being ranked #1 in a single poll (a la Jay-Z) is a fluke. Being ranked #1 twice could be considered an anomaly. Being ranked #1 in dozens of polls, and having a multitude of your critics, peers, other professionals in your industry, and even renowned academics go on the record to state that you are #1 turns it into a verifiable assertion. BTW, the Wikipedia policy on "Fairness" can be found at Everyone Gets a Trophy. SqlPac 01:10, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Exactly, it does not say he is the greatest. It says he has been ranked as the greatest, which is a fact License2Kill 04:01, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

First of all, those two citations were both fan polls, so idk where u got the idea that that covers for "industry insiders and critics" second, renowed academnics dont say he's #1. Third, People like Jay-Z, Notorious BIG, Rakim, Nas are also commonly refered to as the greatest by industy insiders and fans. Look at the Source from Feb 2007. Look at the XXL from April 2007. Look at the March 2007 Blender. Look at the All the above say Notorious B.I.G. is the greatest. Im reading the post and i see this has been discussed before, but it kinda bothers me that the Tupac article has people like you who dedicate their lives to making this guy look so high and mighty.

Take credit for the stuff you're posting. In re: "industry insiders and critics", it was reported by Newsweek after Shakur's shooting that "that hip-hop had lost the most articulate voice of intelligent black male anger". In re: "renowned academics", as stated in the article, several renowned academics wrote dozens of papers after Shakur's death, which were presented at the Harvard Conference. Many of these academics went on the record stating that Shakur was the best, the most influential, had the greatest cultural impact, etc. Perhaps Yale will hold a "Jay-Z" Conference to refute these findings at some point. As for B.I.G., he was good; however, 2 albums do not a lifetime of achievement make. SqlPac 22:47, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes, i have seen these articles. But I do believe you are getting "greatness" confused with "influence". While I agree that having papers written about him at perstigoues schools is something else, look at what Jay-Z has done. Dude has had lunch with the f*cking United Nations. And B.I.G., he did in 2 albums (and barely any posthomous releases) what 2Pac took 7 albums (and tons of sh't from his after death) to do. B.I.G. may not have had Yale and Harvard (two predominatly white schools) talk about him, but just about every HIP-HOP publication (you know, those guys who are actually involved in the industy) say he's the greatest. There are scholars also write articles on Eminiem, does that make him #2 or perhaps #1? I believe the line in the intro should be changed as ONE of the greatest and add most influental. Any wikipedia administrators agree?

I CUT IN HERE!!! so he has had lunch with UN? so? please tell me so? what does it matter? 2pac said how things are and he is one of a kind... So how can you say that he aint great? Btw the governer of CA is Arnold Schwarzenegger a body builder... so impossible is nothing plus USA:s president is a baboon who loves war and oil... --84.250.27.36 16:37, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Feel free to sign your posts; i.e., put your name behind your words. At the Harvard Conference the African-American scholarship was very well represented. Several of the Ph.D.'s in attendance and giving presentations were African-American. So I'm not sure exactly what road you're headed down by pointing out that their student bodies are "predominantly white". Perhaps you can explain how having a "predominantly white" student body detracts from the prestige associated with a school? Or from an academic conference held there, at which the African-American academic community was better represented than most academic conferences held anywhere else in this country in the past 200 years. What did B.I.G. do in two albums exactly? As for Jay-Z having lunch with the United Nations, he's in good company: Fidel Castro had lunch at the United Nations as well. A list of a man's dining partners don't generally excite people outside a general circle of Yes-Men. Shakur's influence can be found in Jay-Z's "rip-off" of Shakur's song, "My Girlfriend"; which was somehow miraculously converted into a second-rate "love song" about how his girlfriend disses him for "Sex and the City" re-runs. Eminem repeatedly lists Shakur as one of his biggest influences; and he has even stated in some of his songs that Shakur is "the great one". Sounds like Eminem would agree. Here's some more verification for you:

• Content Producer and professional journalist Eric William stated that Shakur is the "Greatest Male Rapper of All Time" (B.I.G. made #3 right behind Rakim, and Jay-Z slithered in at #4). [[1]]
• About Rap/Hip-Hop ran a poll in which Shakur ran away with a double-digit lead over all the competition, including Jay-Z (#4) and B.I.G. (#5) [[2]]
• Vibe magazine, one of those HIP HOP publications (you know, those guys who are actually involved in the industy), ran a poll in which fans voted Shakur #1 and B.I.G. #2. Jay-Z came in at #3, ahead of Nas and Rakim (go figure). [[3]]

There are dozens of polls and articles that repeat these same facts, making them verifiable. Most of the polls I've seen indicate that Jay-Z falls in at #1 only on the "Greatest Rapper Alive". The key word being "Alive", and that is easily disputable since Rakim and Nas are still breathing. Bottom line is it is a verifiable fact. Instead of coming over here and trying to get someone to agree with you that a verifiable fact should be changed on the Tupac Shakur article, maybe your time would be better spent improving and verifying your assertions that Jay-Z is the greatest of all time (and not just the "Greatest Alive"), or that B.I.G. is the greatest of all time in their articles. SqlPac 03:18, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

"...look at what Jay-Z has done. Dude has had lunch with the f*cking United Nations." My friend is dating a girl who works as an administrative assistant at the f*cking United Nations. After I showed him this discussion, he called her, and she's invited us to have lunch at the f*cking United Nations. So around 1 PM EST tomorrow, I will have had lunch with the "f*cking United Nations", making me "The Greatest". So will my friend. And of course, his girlfriend is apparently already well beyond "The Greatest" by your criteria, since she eats lunch with the f*cking United Nations just about every single day. Cheap publicity stunts are not the best measure of greatness; unless you're trying for a P.T. Barnum Award, of course. SqlPac 14:57, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Well, you make good points. But once again: In September 2003 issue XXL Mag asked 25 RAPPERS who their top 5 MC's were. B.I.G. was on 13 of the 25 lists while 2Pac only on 8. That ties with Eminem for 4th behing Rakim (11) and, you guessed it, Jay-Z (10).

Once again, you prove my point about the casual fan and their polls. They ranked Dr Dre on the Top 10 in one of those polls I believe the 22 Best MC's poll, and he dont even write his own rhymes.

Dre is not even an issue here. As I said, statistical flukes happen all the time. But what happens is, in the long run, statistical anomalies even themselves out (that's why you can win a few bets in a Casino but you end up losing it all by the end of the night.) One poll might rank Dre #1 for all I know, but you're probably not going to see dozens of polls ranking him #1. Just like there probably aren't dozens of polls of sober people (whose paychecks aren't signed by Jay-Z) that rank him above Tupac. SqlPac 03:48, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

I do apologize for singling out white people at Harvard and their Professors. While many of these guys were black, Harvard and other prestigous schools has also had press confrences about terrorist leader Osama Bin Laden, and dictators Saddam Hussein, Benito Mussolini and Hitler. So much for good company, eh?

I was just wondering where the white thing was going. Didn't seem relevant, considering the representation and makeup of the Harvard Conference. There is a difference between a "press conference" and an "academic conference" with panelists who are presenting papers discussing the impact that one person has made on an industry and an entire culture. You and I could call the local papers and hold our own "press conference" tomorrow. If we called enough people and made it sound good enough, we might even get someone to show up. SqlPac 03:40, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

What did B.I.G. accomplish in two albums? Hmm lets see. He brought East Coast Hip-hop back into focus, at a time when G-Funk and West Coast music ruled. He made a critically acclaimed debut album that still is ranked in most peoples top 10 albums ever. He was the only person to hold the title "King of New York" and have no disputes, and unlike 2Pac, was acclaimed as the best when he was ALIVE. Moving along, he withstood a barrage of diss records by 'Pac to still be hugely popular around the world. His second, double album was just as critically acclaimed as the first and it went on to outsell 2Pac's double album. Don't give me that crap about how All Eyez On Me's sales haven't been updated since '98, cuz Life After Death hasnt been updated since 2000. There are Biggie fans all over the world (just like 'Pac), and his murder was high profile enough to re-open a crooked cop scandal in the second largest major city in America. Biggie's two albums have also supplied rhymes that get bitten constantly by too many rappers too name here. Again,it is true people steal 2Pac's SONGS, meaning he can write good songs, (so can Nelly and Chingy and Lil Jon) but they steal Biggies RHYMES, more than ANYBODy in rap history. The best RAPPER is B.I.G. Nuff said.

While bringing East Coast Hip-hop back from the brink of extinction is admirable, one could also say that Eminem brought Midwest rap back from the brink of non-existence. B.I.G. deal. It makes you wonder why so many rappers in New York couldn't get their stuff together to begin with, that they even needed a "savior". But that's neither here nor there. And "re-open a crooked cop scandal"? Hell, Pac shot two cops; unlike most rappers who likes to talk the talk but never fired so much as a watergun outside of a studio. As for your assertion that B.I.G. is the best RAPPER, source it and add it to the B.I.G. article. You're really going to have a hard time convincing anyone here to change a verifiable fact. SqlPac 03:40, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

And how dare you try to say Jay-Z at the UN is a publicity stunt, and in the very same breath try to defend the king of publicity stunts. Was going to any reporter who listened and telling them that Biggie had him shot (which is a snitch move by the way) not a stunt? Or how about making songs with disputable claims of having sex with ones wife? Spitting in a TV camera? Screaming Westside every chance you get (when u lived in L.A. for 4 years?<----Darth Caton

Pac said that biggie and puffy knew about the shooting. He didn"t say that they shot him. He said that they were involve. Snitch is someone who works for the cops. Did pac work for cops or was biggie and puffy ever charged with murder atempt? NO!!! So pac was no snitch!

"On November 30, 1994 there friendship would change forever when Tupac was shot 5 times in the lobby of the Quad Recording Studios in Manhattan with his manager (who was also shot once by a stray bullet), Stretch (of the Live Squad), and his siters boyfriend. Meanwhile Bad Boy aritst Biggie, Puffy, New York record executive Andre Harrell, and Biggie's group the Junior M.A.F.I.A. were upstairs recording. After Tupac was shot he went upstairs to have an ambulance called and to have someone call his mother. No one in the studio would look at or help Tupac even though he had been shot. Tupac found that Biggie and Puffy knew about the shooting and had not warned him. Biggie was hanging with the people who shot Tupac a week before .In the eyes of Tupac Biggie was fake he was not a playa by no means and he was not the King of New York (especially if he didn't know what was going down in his own city). On Biggie's first album he talked about being a high roller when in reality he was broke while creating the album and was speaking of Tupac's lifestyle."

http://www.donkilluminati.com/disputes.htm

http://youtube.com/watch?v=-beoIhQ9exU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKtnGR9uPEw

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ccD5FLqSqjI&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xDkxfHUnsc

^^^^WHoever put this is just reaching. Of course 2Pac is gonna try to discredit Biggie by saying he took his style, and rapped about his life. However, last i checked, 2Pac wasnt from Bed-Stuy, and never sold drugs. Actualy, although Big may have lived a more comfortable life than he implied in his raps, 2Pac certainly wasn't the "superthug" you believe him to be. He graduated from a prestigous theatre school and took ballet classes. As for the player part? EVERYBODY THAT RAPS talks about the high life. 2Pac certainly wasnt the first. U 2Pac fans would believe him if he said he walked on water and fed 2000 people with 5 loaves of bread.

Biggie never sold no drugs that fatty worked in a grocery store -.- "superthug" thug means some one who lives a hard life its not the same as a gangsta it doesent have to include selling drugs "lived more comfortable life" he didnt live the life he rapped about he played a carracter called notorious B.I.G. who sold drugs... pfffffffffffffffff wnb.... -.- --84.250.27.36 16:32, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Still Biggie and Puffy did some bitch shit. If you are somebodys friend and you know that your friend will be shot and you don"t warn him. True that pac didn"t sold that much drugs. Still pac was poor and tried to make money buy sellin crack. He just was broke and tried every way to make money. Biggie was never poor and never broke. Biggie had money and had a job. All you biggie fans believed that the dude was some broke dealer from brooklyn. Well his mom and friends say that he never sold drugs. Biggie went to a private school. 2pac didn"t graduate from that school. He only was in that school for few years. Many people have confirm that 2pac was poor and lived a bad life. Pac wasn"t no Eazy E. Still 2pac was poor and biggie was never poor. Biggie never sold drugs and went to private school. If you still think that 2pac is a liar and biggie is a player then you are a dumb ass!!! Discredit Biggie? In that documentary his mom and friends discredit him.

Watched it and there is clearly told he worked in a grocery store and did not sell drugs in that "laundry shop thingy" how ever you call it or barbershop or what ever it was. Even his boss said he was a good kid and never did anything wrong checkyourselfbeforeyouwreckyourself thank you good night bye bye. and wtf are you trying to prove here fucking stupid subject to argue about "my idol had more poor life than your did" and i wouldnt believe if pac said that bread loave thingy but you certainly believe when some dude in a robe preaches "and then Jeesus fed a village with 12 breads and 2 fishes and moses made a walking stick go snake mod" and my favorite "adam and eve populated the world" hahahaha bullshit did you know if adam and eve had chidlren their children would be normal but adam and eves grand children would be handicapped so wouldnt there be 90% handicapped people now too? --84.250.27.36 12:09, 26 July 2007 (UTC) EDIT: "it" -- is Tupac & Biggie documentary -- --84.250.27.36 12:18, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Biggie did sell drugs. His friends said he did, what are you talking about. Watch Behind the Music, The Biggie & Tupac DVD etc. Yes he went to private school. He also didn't graduate. And his mom is in denial about their financial situatuion, because if they was so rich, i know they wouldnt be living in 1980's Bed Stuy. Trust me, ive seen it. Biggie definelty sold more than 2Pac. Pac sed himself that he only did it for 2 weeks and almost got arrested. Pac also never had no criminal record until he got famous, Biggie went to jail for 9 months. Not tryin to say Biggie was a superthug, but come on, you make it seem like Biggie had as much street cred as Jaime Kennedy

Biggie knew criminals and was friends with them. You say that his mom is in denial. So why would his mother lie. Do you think that you know biggie better then his mom? Many of his friends say that he sold drugs. How come there is allso people that say he didn"t sold drugs. That dude in that documentary was biggies friend and said that biggie never sold drugs or did anything that he said on his raps. Prove to me that he went to jail? There must be some info that he went to jail? 2pac really went to jail. And so what if pac was not a supercriminal. Do you think that many criminals sell drugs and kill people because they think its cool? Don"t believe everything you hear or see. Pac wasn"t trying to say that you should be a criminal. He tried to say that people need to get jobs and education. All biggie said was that fuck bitches and live like player. Pac talked allso about criminal life but his main message was that people need to respect each other and try to do some positive things. Biggie respected pac. And biggie said in one interview that he would never wish death on nobody.

(On Tupac Shakur's death) "I was in shock of everything. I wasn't shocked about him getting shot. 'Pac is a strong dude, yo. He's real strong, so when he got shot I was just like, 'Again?' You know, he's always getting shot or shot at, he gonna pull through, make a few records and it's going to be over. But when he died it took me by surprise. Even though we were going through our drama I would never wish death on nobody. 'Cause there ain't no coming back from that."

I bet many people heard "i was just like 'Fuck him?'" --84.250.27.36 12:22, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0857263/bio

I had a nice lunch over at the U.N. today, so in that regard I suppose I'm now as good a rapper as Jay-Z. It doesn't feel much different from yesterday though. What was the point of Jay-Z's visit to the U.N. exactly? Was he trying to "Hard-Knock Life" the Palestinians and Israelis into a peace agreement? C'mon, it was a publicity stunt, pure and simple. I will definitely give him credit for being able to promote the hell out of himself. But self-promotion is not what makes a great rapper. Even one who declared himself the "Savior of East Coast Hip-Hop" in the past (which you obviously disagree with, since you feel that B.I.G. was the "Savior of East Coast Hip-Hop"). Hell I'm just annoyed that East Coast Hip-Hop fell into such a disorganized mess that it needed a "savior". Personally I would love to talk to you about Jay-Z all day long, I got nothing nice to say about him; but he's not the central issue here. The issue, AFAIK, is whether the assertions made in this article are verifiable as far as Wikipedia's policies are concerned. I think it's been shown beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are verifiable. I think the best course of action, if you disagree, is to verify your assertions about B.I.G. and Jay-Z (and whomever else you would like to) and add those statements to their articles with appropriate sources. I think the "industry insider" who hosted the MTV2 show that is used as a source here (the one with the "fan poll" that pronounced Shakur the #1 emcee) said it best: "When you ask who's the #1 MC, you could say Tupac or Biggie, and you'd be right." Unfortunately he didn't include Jay-Z in his list, but I personally don't even believe Jay-Z is an issue here. I don't believe he's in the same league as either B.I.G. or Tupac (or even Rakim or Nas) personally, but that's just my opinion and not necessarily a verifiable fact. SqlPac 03:40, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Damn, did Jay-Z do something to you personally? Anyway, i don't feel the need to put "ranked as best ever" in Jay-Z or Biggies article (although someones has put it in the Jay-Z article already) because it's reeks too much of POV, which Wikipedia is against. Hell, Michael Jordan's article doens't even say he's the best basketball player, and the list of sources (fans, athletes, GM's etc.) would last a whole article. BTW, Jay-Z went to the UN to help provide water for the starving African kids over there, and he didnt just have lunch with the U.N. He was in a meeting with world leaders Kofi Annan, and President of South Africa Thabo Mbeki trying to help people over there. Publicity sturnt or not, you must tip your hat to the man.

Jay-Z never did nothing to me or for me personally. Like I said, my personal opinion is that Jay-Z never has been on the same level as many other rappers concerning his rap skills. However, I tip my hat to his marketing skills. As far as his UN visit, I call it a simple publicity stunt. Not for nothing, but he could have just as easily taken some of his millions and dotted the African skyline with water towers, without seeking out high-profile meetings with Kofi Annan and other politicians. How many Africans got a bottle of water out of that meeting? Now that the photo op is over, how much time does he spend telling his fans to take that $20 they're going to spend on Jay-Z CD's, clothes, or crackpipes and donate it to the African Water Crisis campaign instead? But anyway, my personal feelings aside, the point is that this article isn't about Jay-Z and Jay-Z really doesn't have any bearing on the conversation as far as I'm concerned. You make some good points about B.I.G., however, which I would think are much more relevant to the conversation. "King of New York" though? C'mon, that's right up there with "Admiral of the Nebraska Navy" :)

^^^Gee, i never knew being hailed as the best rapper from the birthplace of hip-hop was so insignificant.

^^^"It ain't where you from, it's where you at..." -- Rakim

Wow, this discussion turned into "who is the best rapper ever"... people, remember that talk pages are not meant to be discussion forums. Seems to me that the guy who started this whole discussion is just some upset Biggie fan who can't stand it when someone ranks 'Pac above Biggie. Buddy, whether you like it or not, this article has verifiable sources and thus it is OK to add that statement here, if you want to add verifiable sources to the The Notorious B.I.G. article claiming he is often heralded as the best rapper ever, be my guest, but don't bitch because this article says 'Pac is the best (even though it HAS verifiable sources). End of story, I don't understand why this dicussion even went this far. --- 72.142.212.28 23:11, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

It went this far because the original poster requested third-party opinions on whether or not the statement in the article was acceptable. For a third-party to provide a well-informed opinion, the opposing viewpoint needed to be presented. Likewise, all the other peripheral subjects (Jay-Z, et al.) came into the discussion at the prompting of the original poster. SqlPac 00:20, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

I think that 2pac is the best rapper ever but it is only my oppinion and people shouldn't be ranked as "the best of something" because its an oppinion and everyone has their right to one and should have one. Instead of saying that some one is for example "The best rapper ever" they should say "The best selling rapper ever" or something to explain it. God I wish english was my mothertongue I'd have other boring stuf to go on with but my english skills are not good enough :/ --84.250.27.36 21:04, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

No one stated "The best rapper ever, next to Biggie smalls" in the article. What was stated is as follows: "Many fans, critics, and industry insiders rank him as the greatest rapper ever." References are provided to this verifiable fact, not opinion of the contributors. SqlPac 05:26, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

I know no one stated but some one thought some one stated so thats why i posted that one :F--84.250.27.36 23:54, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Cant we all just get along? You people are so stupid!!! "the magazine said this and this" so what? music is personal I like pac I like biggie I like nas I like jay-z I like ice cube I like dr.dre I like eazy-e I like Big syke I like Snoop dogg got a fucking problem with that? I dont even want to rank them but still id put 'pac #1 and biggie #2 but thats only my oppinion so stop the argue If biggie and pac were mad at each other does the pac fans have to diss biggie and biggie fans diss pac? doesent make sence so stfu already --84.250.27.36 12:14, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Poor flow

Hi. The second paragraph has unexplained gaps. It describes Shakur being robbed and shot, and how that sparked the East/West rivalry, then jumps to him being released from prison, with no mention of how or why he was incarcerated. This should be cleaned up and the gaps filled in. --Segaba 14:30, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

It was fixed. Then reverted. Then fixed again. Then reverted again. Give it your best shot. SqlPac 14:50, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

I saw that too. I might look into it today or tomorrow myself. Tayquan ^holla_{My work} 19:41, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. I was about to start a topic about this on the talk, but it looks like you beat me to it. The lead is horrible, it doesn't summarize the rest of the article, his life or who he was properly, nor is it properly wikified. ♠ SG →Talk 04:27, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

See above comments. I counted over 30 items that could be wikified in the intro alone. Much of this has already been done a couple of times, including a rewrite of the intro. See history for more info. SqlPac 14:57, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

2pac is the best o.k.

Good Article Review

This article has been brought to WP:GA/R for review and possible delisting of its Good Article status. Listed below are the reasons submitted to WP:GA/R for delisting.

Nomination for delisting: I believe the article does not meet the GA criteria found in WP:WIAGA. In particular, it fails to meet Criteria #1 (Well Written) and Criteria #2 (Factually Accurate and Verifiable). Of concern are many sections without reference, many unsourced trivial facts that have been added, poor introduction, and poor wikification of the intro and throughout. Examples include:

• As has been pointed out on the article talk page, the intro. has degenerated into a poor state and is quite jumpy/choppy. It does not properly summarize the article.
• Also pointed out on the talk page, the Intro alone has dozens of opportunities for proper wikification. Wikification throughout the intro and the article is sporadic and uneven. For example, an author felt it important to wikify "cardiac arrest" in the Intro, but did not feel it important to wikify "respiratory failure". In this instance, it should be both (preferable) or neither.
• Also pointed out on the talk page, the article includes a lot of trivia. Some examples include:
  • Section on Jada Pinkett-Smith that should be summarized in one or two sentences.
  • List of books the subject read, which is included to make a point. The same point can (and has) been made, in summarized form, previously in the article without a book list.
  • Trivial items also include career trivia and paragraphs of unsourced trivial statements about subject's future plans at time of death.
• Redundant redundancy is a problem. Some items are redundant, such as mentioning the subject's suspicions that certain other rappers had set him up to be killed, which is mentioned (verbosely) no less than 3 times (Intro, "Life on Death Row", "The November 1994 Shooting"), and the writing of the screenplay "Live2Tell", which is discussed in "Acting Career" and "Prison Sentence".
• Overlapping sections are a problem, with some items apparently in the wrong section. As an example, the end of the "Early Life" section includes several sentences discussing the beginning of the subject's career. The next section is titled "Early Career".
• Fan site sourcing. In particular the trivial items are sourced to Fan Sites, like this Russian Fan Site, Tupac Mania.
• Direct (mis-)quotes are not sourced. A direct quote from film critic Peter Travers ("the film's most magnetic figure") is actually a misquote, *and* it is unsourced. The correct quote and source were previously included in the article, but were subsequently changed.
• There are two paragraphs of completely *unsourced* trivia at the end of the "Life on Death Row" section.
• There are unsourced quotes from a rape victim, as well as unsourced trivia that includes very strong statements like the assertion that Shakur developed the word (Thug Life) into an acronym standing for "The Hate U Gave Little Infants Fucks Everybody".
• The article needs a good copyediting. There are grammar and punctuation errors throughout. For instance, the double comma in the album generated two hits, "Keep Ya Head Up" and "I Get Around", , the latter.
• Some areas of the article do not follow the guidelines at the Manual of Style (Dates and Numbers), such as the spelling out of certain numbers ("11" = "eleven" in the intro., while the number "6" a few sentences later is spelled out "six"; construction should be paralleled).

The article appears to have largely degenerated into an unsourced, poorly constructed, substandard hodge-podge of trivia about an extremely important figure in hip-hop. Changes have been attempted to bring it inline with Wikipedia guidelines &emdash; including copyediting, verification of sources, addition of more sources, removal of trivia, rewriting of entire sections, etc. Unfortunately attempts to bring the article up to WP:GA or even WP:FA status are constantly reverted. This article should be delisted immediately, and until such time as it is brought up to the WP:GA level. SqlPac 15:49, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Surprise, surprise... Tupac's Not Dead

At least not according to the first sentence of your article. Might want to check those facts. SqlPac 18:59, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism happens on a nearly daily basis to this article; nothing to get worked up about. It has since been reverted. -- Phoenix2 ^{(talk, review)} 19:30, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Merely pointing out it needed to be fixed. SqlPac 23:26, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

My bad. If you're watching the article, be prepared to see a lot of such activity. -- Phoenix2 ^{(talk, review)} 23:40, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

I check in every once in a while, but not so much since it's gotten so bad. Thanks. SqlPac 00:53, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

2pac exposed biggie and bad boy

http://youtube.com/watch?v=dCciv39q5Ms&mode=related&search=

Check that out and you will see who was the realest!!

And who's that? -- Phoenix2 ^{(talk, review)} 17:30, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Can you please tell us your oppinnion if you have one so we can tell ours and have a conversation about this not linking some video and figuring out self what you mean because i dont get what you mean i dont know if that makes me dumb I personally dont think so but anyways you shouldn't say like "see who was the realest" instead of that you could do it like this "i thikn that x was the realest and this is why i think so" then link it and with x i mean mathematical term of presentating a changing carracter number etc dont know how to explane it i hope you got it now if u didnt i dont care.

A Blood???

I am surprised to see Tupac Shakur listed as a Blood and a gang member in one of his categories. Could you people in this area give a citation? Citations are needed in Wikipedia, you know.--Triple-Quadruple 07:27, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm sure that's known. It's mentioned a few times in several of the references already provided, so an additonal citation simply needs to be added. -- Phoenix2 ^{(talk, review)} 17:32, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

This was mentioned previously. There is no mention of this "fact" anywhere in the article. It is not sourced. It appears to be something that someone thought would be a really cool trivia item to add via Categories, circumventing the normal scrutiny applied to unsourced statements in the article text. SqlPac 19:57, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

READ WHAT I WROTE ON THE OTHER SIMILAR ARTICLE thank you i know writing with capital letters is childish but got your attention didnt I?--84.250.27.36 13:12, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Parallel Construction of City Names in InfoBox

You should either add separate links to states as in the reference to Las Vegas, Nevada; add the state to the city name description link as in the reference to New York City, New York; or remove the state altogther as in the references to Oakland and Los Angeles.

New York City, New York USA
Las Vegas, Nevada USA
Oakland
Los Angeles
SqlPac 20:23, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

PAC not a blood

And im tired of people trying to say he was. This page is listed under the "bloods" category. If someone knows how to fix that, then please fix it. Also, I've been trying to take Pac off the Bloods article, but I guess I haven't been around long enough yet. Anybody who knows enough about Pac to know that he wasn't B or C, FIX IT!!! That is, if u can... Wakamusha 02:31, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

While your at it, take away the categories on "Gang Members" and "American Sex Offenders." Pac was never in any gang, and his guilty verdict was appealed.

He was shot 7 times. Listen to fucking "Runnin' (Dying To Live)" produced by Marshall Bruce Mathers III. It clearly states that he was shot 7 times. It has a sample of a news report where the reporter says that he was shot 7 times. He was obviously shot more than 4 times because he survived 5 shots in 1994 and they were worse as he was shot in the head and in the balls. He was shot 7 times. It is not an opinion, it is a fact. For fuck sake. Everybody knows. Even my 4 year old cousin Gianna knows even though she shouldn't but she does and I know there should have been a few comma's and maybe a full stop a while back and there should not have been an apostraphe there and I spelt apostrafee wrong but I can't be bothered to backspace so I'm just carrying on typing. Just listen to the facts dawg.... I'm calling u dawg not dog u got that buddy... and no ur not my real buddy... u have no friends u loser faced faggot fish. HE WAS SHOT 7 TIMES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yes I know that sentence probably shouldn't have had all capitals tupac was the best of the jip hop artist ever I'll fix this soon.--Triple-Quadruple 03:57, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Sources? A song does not meet WP:RS. KillerChihuahua^?!? 15:21, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Time to whine seriously pac was not gang related he was maybe envolved with some bloods trough death row and maybe envolved with some cripz trough snoop dogg. Sorry for my english... This bloods thing is because of the "mob" tattoo that 2pac had and he means "Money Over Bitches" with it. It doesen't mean "Member Of Bloods". He also had a panther tattoo. If he has to be listed its Black Panther cos his mom stepfather etc were Black Panthers. I know it doesent make sence when read the first time but read it a couple of times and u get what im saying.--84.250.27.36 13:03, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

The same thing is going on at the Dr. Dre article, where people either say he's a blood or a crip. Tired of this shit, don't edit Wikipedia if you don't know anything about what you're editing. Dumbasses. --- 72.142.212.28 15:49, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Wouldn't say that dre is gangrelated either...

Tupac was shot 5 times. Look at the Tupac house of Blues performance when he says "I got Shot 5 times, and i sold 5 million records. Listen to the song "All Out" "Letter To My Unborn" or just about any song from his Death Row days, he braggs about it every chance he gets. Triple Quadruple, getting shot doesnt make you a great rapper.

but being shot and survives makes a great story, doesn't it? If not, try that out yourself and let us know how it goes. 75.4.229.242 13:42, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Birth name yet again: Coroner's report is NOT a reliable source

Is there ANY other source for the LPC name? KillerChihuahua^?!? 15:21, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

As mentioned, LVPD listed it as an Alias on official documentation, if you consider the police reliable. SqlPac 16:01, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

And that was the same source, in all meaningful sense. It is not a source for a birth name, it is a source for an alias. KillerChihuahua^?!? 16:05, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Correct. That's why I said it is listed as an Alias by that source. There is, of course, the "magic", invisible original birth certificate that no one has proof ever really existed... I know some would like to source that, although I don't know how you source a "magic", invisible document. SqlPac 17:26, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

I cannot watch this article as much as I'd like. Please revert and inform me if anyone ever edits this article to state that LPC or any variant was his birth name, or anything other than an alias. Thanks much. KillerChihuahua^?!? 17:44, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

I know people hate me after this but i dont consider the american police reliable... and LAPD is even more unreliable--84.250.27.36 13:08, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Article removed from the Good Article list

As a result of consensus following a week-long discussion at WP:GA/R, it was decided to delist this article from GA status. Please see the archived discussion for a list of suggested fixes needed; after the fixes have been made, please renominate the article at WP:GAC for another review. Thank you and happy editing!--Jayron32|talk|contribs 17:39, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

pac's name must be mentioned on this page

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIAA_certification , i just i was woundering why eminem's name was there and pac's wasn't 212.103.163.149 11:04, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Source for that article: RIAA table KillerChihuahua^?!? 11:09, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

btw , pac's name is there...217.53.78.47 14:12, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

This is the most unneutral article on all of Wikipedia

Seriously, there is the most unneutral thing I've ever seen. This whole article is just "I LOVE TUPAC" memorial. There isn't one single criticism in there to balance it out. I feel there should be some to balance it out.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.21.202.150 (talk • contribs) 04:26, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

He sold millions of records, your opinion that he should be criticised is a very rare one, as most people acknowledge him as one of the best, if not the best, rapper of all time, not everyone likes any one artist but the majority of people like 2Pac and this is well reflected in the article.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by BradzN7 (talk • contribs) 17:21, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Go out and ask people what they think of Tupac. If they know him...if they truly know about him they will love him. Those who don't like him usually only know a few facts about his life. If you really look at his entire life and what he has contributed there is no question that he deserves a "memorial" wiki article.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.205.134.180 (talk • contribs) 00:55, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

2pac deserves every single "i love tupac" on this page... take a look at his interviews... or just look at 2pac ressurection 8) and no its not fiction no its not acted its clips from his tv performances etc...

Bogus Info?

This paragraph reads as suspect to me: "Although no one has ever been formally charged, nor publicly identified by the police as a suspect, police sources have indicated they believe that Tony O'Connell, an irish drug dealer who shot East Coast Rapper Skateboard P (A.K.A Peter Rooney) was responsible. Officers in the Compton, California Police Department Gang Unit claimed in a leaked report the Crips were bragging about the killing soon after O Connell returned from Las Vegas." I can't find any articles that mention a Tony O'Connell in relation to Tupac's death. The only rapper who goes by the name Skateboard P that I know of is Pharell Williams and he hasn't ever been shot to my knowledge. Also, I'm pretty sure the Crips wouldn't be bragging about killing Tupac if some "Irish Drug Dealer" did it. I suspect vandalism but I'll leave the paragraph and let others decide.Citizen Don 03:36, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

It's probably vandalism at its finest. There was an article (I believe in the LA Times) which was cited in a prior version (it might even be cited in this one - not sure anymore), in which a reporter stated that informants had revealed to him the identity of a gang member who shot Tupac. I believe the reporter even gave the shooter's name. Supposedly this gang member was killed before the cops could get their hands on him. All this stuff you copied above about the "Irish Drug Dealer" sounds like straight up nonsense. If it's not sourced, delete it. SqlPac 04:23, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

On second though, it's not sourced. It's gone. Whoever added it, feel free to add it back in when you have a verifiable source or three. SqlPac 04:25, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Also there was an entire paragraph and a half of unsourced trivia crap. Whoever added it, feel free to add it back in when you have a verifiable source. Or three. SqlPac 04:28, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Was Tupac Muslim?

OK, here is my support for that, though I'm not sure: Tupacs mother Afeni Shakur, and stepfather Mutulu Shakur, are both Islamic converts through the Black Panthers The general tyes to Islam through the Black Panthers The word Shakur translates from Arabic as "faithful to Allah"

Though this does not, I believe, offer concise proof, it does allow reasonable belief room, which should put it up to debate. Arabic Pilot 07:15, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

His first name is of Incan/Peruvian origin, so was Tupac a follower of the Incan faith? Hmm... He also seems to have some Christian-centric tattoos, like the cross that covered nearly his entire back, or the tattoo of Jesus on the cross on his arm, or his tattoo that references Exodus. Is that the debate you were looking for? SqlPac 15:41, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Tupac Amaru Shakur was born Lesane Parish Crooks

I've read the article about 2pac,and i saw that it missed that his given birthname is Lesane Parish Crooks. I found out that you needed back up on his LPC name,so here it is. I'm a big Pac fan,have his portait on my right chest. I've done thousands of hours research surrounding his death and all the theories about him faking his death. In 2005 i've met Leila Steinberg,the lady who took him in her home in Marin City,and we are close friends now. and if you want to find out more about Tupac, mail me

Morphlex-7@hotmail.com

Lex Vick, Los Angeles,CA —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.109.75.192 (talk • contribs) 19:02, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

While I appreciate the offer, if you have a source we can use on Wikipedia which states that his birth name is LPC, please post information about it on the talk page of that article. Right now, we have two sources which state LPC was an alias of Tupac, and no source which meets Wikipedia's requirements of reliable sourcing. Please do post on the talk page of the article, and not on my talk page, so that other editors will be able to contribute to the discussion about the article. Thanks much - KillerChihuahua?!? 19:03, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

The sources i have are the documentries i own on DVD named: Thug Angel, Tupac Vs., Thug Immortal, Before i wake and ofcourse Tupac: Resurrection. I suggest instead of just putting the names on the site,watch them and learn.

A close friend of mine named Leila Steinberg,yes that Leila Steinberg,who co-produced 'Thug Angel',even confirmed the given birth name as Lesane Parish Crooks.

Afeni Shakur did not know who the father was when he was born. She changed her and her son's name when she married Mutulu Shakur.

Talking about Leila,that concert was in her own backyard. She also arranged the meeting with Atron Gregory because she semi-managed him in the beginning of his career.

With kind regards, Lex Vick

All Eyez On Me

Was NOT the first hip hop double album. Detroit's Esham was the first, with Judgement Day, Volumes one and two. And after that, Master P released a double album. Clean that up.

If you would check your own words first,you wouldn't look stupid.

Esham released two different albums with one title,that doesn't make it an 2 disc album. If Tupac released an album called 'Thuglife vol 2',would that be considred as a double album,no it won't.

And Master P's 'MP da last Don' came out 1998,two years after tupac's 'death'.

Lex Vick

07-07-07

is when ill be back. at 4:03 pm thanks for all the support

Pac's Life IS NOT Gold!

I have something to say as to the sales of Pac's Life. I while back i noticed that the album was taking a long time to be certified platnium, or gold for that matter. Beneath the sales chart was a worldwide fact that had no references. But, the last tab for his weekly sales i made the number up out of nowhere and it still has not been editied. I wanted the number to push his worldiwde sales past 500,000, which would give him gold status worldwide. The reason i bring this up is because it was so easy just to type any number in there and no one is willing to check and see if it is true. Also i noticed that there was one week where it stated that he sold exactly 7,000. I believe there is no way such a perfect number like that would come up. So i suggest we find out how much the album really sold, and not what we have posted. I am not a member of wikipedia but my screenname is matavelli33, let me know what i can do to fix this misunderstanding. —The preceding comment is by 24.3.205.94 (talk • contribs) 24.3.205.94: Please sign your posts!

many still believe pac is alive

i think someone with more knowledge on this topic could probably add a section regarding proof or conspiracies of how tupac died, if he died!

yes!finally someone mentions it! i foudn an artice about it, it blew my mind away! here is the link----> http://members.aol.com/subseven/tupac.html

GAC Comments

Disclaimer: I am a previous substantial contributor to this article, so I am not allowed to "review" it under Wikipedia rules. That being said, you can expect the article to fail GA for the following reasons:

• The images included in the article lack fair use rationale.
• There are still fan sites being used as sources (thuglifearmy.com).
• Some references do not even show up in the references section (reference item #10, for instance).
• You can expect some of your facts to be disputed - for instance, "Origin: Los Angeles, California". Does "Origin" indicate a place in which the subject owned real estate just prior to his/her death? Or is there some other significance associated with "Origin"? According to the article, the subject was not raised in Los Angeles, California; nor did his career begin in Los Angeles, California.
• The "inconsistent wikification" problem was pointed out in the GA Review, in which this article was removed from GA. This is still an issue.
• The problem with information appearing to be in the wrong sections (end of early life, beginning of early career) has not been addressed.
• The article is still full of trivial, useless information, such as the abridged list of books the subject allegedly read at some point in his life and an overly long discussion of the subject's friendship with Jada Pinkett(-Smith); especially since she does not appear to be worth mentioning anywhere else in this article.
• The article is still chock full of trivial unsourced information, such as the last sentence of the first paragraph of the "Makaveli" section.

Additionally, the following items might not prevent the article from reaching GA status, but reviewers might cite these items in addition to the ones listed above:

• Several sections are choppy, stubby one/two-paragraph affairs that break the flow of the article and provide more distraction than useful information. A lot of these "baby sections" could probably be combined with other sections to make a more readable article.
• The prose from section to section, and even among different sentences of the same paragraph, is rather inconsistent in some places. This article could really use a thorough copyediting.
• The See Also section might benefit from being alphabetized.
• Most of the references do not use the Wiki {{cite}} format.

Several of these issues were cited in the Tupac Shakur Good Article Review at which this article was delisted. Most of the issues have not been addressed, so it is doubtful that the article will achieve GA status this time around. SqlPac 20:17, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

GA failure

I am quick failing this article due to non fair use of images of album covers - without a rationonale. Some of the issues above could also be a problem for GA, but other stuff may escape. In any case it looks like its not quite stable yet. GB 22:42, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, there's no way it would have passed a GA. I thought it was very inappropriate of the editor to nominate this for a GA and not even check if the issues from the previous delisting were addressed. If you look at the "to do list" and the references, it should have been obvious that this was not up to standard. Spellcast 22:00, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Grammar Issue

Grammar or a simple typo, the last sentence of "1.3 Acting Career" it is written

Later on while he was in prison who wrote the screenplay for an upcoming film "Live 2 Tell" which tells the story of a teenager who becomes a drug lord.

I believe the "who" should be changed to "he." --Oz8ball1 18:21, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

So fix it. Spellcast 22:00, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

i think it was a question? instead of a dot there should be a questionmark (?) or then who should be he --84.250.27.36 19:34, 12 August 2007 (UTC)