User talk:Rwwww

Welcome to the Wikipedia!

Welcome to the Wikipedia, Rwwww! And thanks for weighing in on the Insurance article discussion.

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Best of luck, Rwwww, and have fun! Ombudsman 23:46, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

Fortran

Thanks for the work on Fortran. It really is an improvement and is making the article much more enclopedic.

You've done some experiments in the sandbox, and that's a great thing. Another good tool is the Show preview button (beside the Save page button). It's handy for checking many things, like whether a referenced article exists and quickly locating it: just type the terms you think might be (or ought to be) articles, put double square brackets around them and press Show preview. If one doesn't exist, it will be a red link, but if you click on that (with your browser's "open link as new page" function, accessed by right or reverse clicking) it will show a page where a new article can be created, but more importantly, it will have a line near the top which says

Wikipedia does not have an article with this exact name. Please search for <whatever article> in Wikipedia before creating the article, to check for alternative titles or spellings.

where the link (shown underlined here) will conduct the search if clicked on. I say this hoping you'll use these resources to make more changes in each edit: the long list of little edits requires time and effort to verify using popups (which allows viewing an edit without clicking). Thanks again for the good work. —EncMstr 01:49, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

The edits to the Fortran article that you've mentioned appear to be a simple case of vandalism, quickly reverted by User:AntiVandalBot. Equally common forms of vandalism, though subtler, frequently arise and snowball in the form of seemingly WP:NPOV edits. You might want to be on the lookout for deliberate suppression, or similar editing intended to obscure the relationship between an article and any semblance of truth. Btw, hanks for the enhancements to the Fortran article. Ombudsman 16:17, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Unit record machines

Sorry! No - I just assumed the 421 hadn't had an article written about it yet. Apparently it was designed in France in 1951... I have removed it from the list, and reverted the reference to where I had it before. Thanks. Jpaulm 00:01, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

ASC Purple

ASC are site-specific installations and not correctly categorized as IBM products. That is, a random person/company can not order another one due to the obvious national security reasons. Other ASC sites are done with other vendors - SGI, AMD, Intel, etc and those entries don't use the vendors names in the article titles. Please rename to just ASC Purple. Dyl 17:18, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for making the change. ASCI was the name of the nuclear bomb simulation program before the name change to ASC. Nobody updated the articles. Feel free to do that. My personal opinion on the vendor name is that it's only important if the vendor is actually selling the technology to more then one customer. If it's not on the open market, then it's not really a product, more like a specialized service or contract. Also, there's nothing stopping from such a product from having its own article. These ASCI/ASC pages are more about the government lab installations, in my opinion. Dyl 16:12, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

How to categorize Category:IBM System/360 mainframe line ?

Hello, I noticed you changed some recent categories I made about S/370 into Category:IBM Mainframe computer operating systems. I don't like this category that much, because topics like VSAM and XEDIT are not really operating systems, and because each operating system would perhaps deserve its own category. I would like to discuss with you how to classify the stuff around S/360 mainframes. The problem is, operating systems and related software are very tied to hardware (that was the reason why I created categories like Category:ESA/390 mainframe technology; but I am open open to suggestion about another schemes. Thanks Samohyl Jan 09:11, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Well, to be blunt -- I made a mess of it. Worked for IBM from about 1958 to the early 1990s and while my wife was in the hospital (there are details in other responses here) thought I'd clean up the IBM article titles & categorizations. By the time I realized I was in trouble with the 360/370/... stuff it was too late & I just abandoned the attempt. Did a lot of good work elsewhere (I think) but can't escape my mess that you're asking about.

I did find an article, IBM eServers (if that names is not right, see the IBM hardware category -- it's now one of the 1st "*" section articles) that lists the rebranding that IBM did. That rebranding, and my being 15 years behind, explains some of the mess.

We are now travelling, visting family. It will be July/August before I can really look at this topic again and see if I have any constructive suggestions.

With apologies, tooold 18:37, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

IBM omnibus

Category:IBM omnibus? Is that a ten dollar term for "somehow related"? -Will Beback 09:10, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

I've been away, sorry (you can find details in a response to a query below). While my wife was in the hospital I engaged in an obsessive/compulsive search for IBM articles that were not linked/categorized with other IBM articles. Many that I found belonged in existing categories or needed only links from existing articles. Fixed those. The others I placed in "IBM omnibus" only to keep track of them, knowing the category wouldn't last but, for a while, they could be found and people could do whatever they wanted with them (I also kept a paper list -- somewhere!). tooold 18:04, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Image Needed

I left the 'Image Needed' phrase in because, technically, the 5081 card image that I added was not an IBM5081 but rather, in this case, a "Globe No. 1 Standard Form 5081", a card not manufactured by IBM. I'm a newcomer and was just trying to be as accurate as possible. Dick Kutz 08:06 (UTC), 12 Nove 2006

renaming actual proper package names

why have you changed a proper name ? its original name was correct and was not written by IBMken 19:09, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

While my wife was in the hospital (there are details in another response) I attempted to clean up the rather random naming of IBM (and some other companies) computer products. A few (I hope not many) I got wrong. As noted in another response, "STRETCH" became "IBM 7030 Stretch" for example. Can't respond to your question in detail as I don't know which name you are asking about.tooold 18:10, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

AIX (operating system) article rename

Could you please explain why did you rename the "AIX (operating system)" article to "IBM AIX (operating system)" on 18 November 2006. "IBM" is not part of the operating system name in contrast to Microsoft Windows for example. See also Talk:IBM AIX (operating system)#Article name "IBM AIX (operating system)". --pabouk 15:15, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Is not the question worth of reply?--pabouk 09:10, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Likely it is worth a reply, I've been away for a while (my wife's jaundice turned into a blocked bile duct turned into a tumor turned into a cancerous tumor turned into pancreatic cancer, resulting in a Whipple surgical procedure followed by chemotherapy -- descriptions of the Whipple procedure can be found on the internet).

During the early part of the above I distracted myself with cleaning up the apparent random naming of IBM products. Some of which I got wrong, as may be the case with AIX. Looking at the category "IBM hardware", for example, the older machines almost all now are named "IBM model [name]" -- it didn't use to be that way. STRETCH, for example, is now IBM 7030 Stretch. I also branched out, changing other vendors machines. LARC is now UNIVAC LARC. Yes, I'm diagnosed with obsessive/compulsive behavior. About the only things left for hardware renaming are the Zuse machines. Someday I'll get up the nerve to do those!

So I tend towards formal names, they are better for searches and you know what you find. Users of IBM products often leave off the IBM prefix, talking about the 1401 or the 7090 or OS/360 while each should be prefixed with IBM. What I found for AIX indicated to me (and I could be wrong) that the full name is IBM AIX. The base reference, for me, is

http://www-03.ibm.com/servers/aix/

which is "IBM AIX". Yes, IBM does not repeat "IBM|" in the text of the article, but that is only normal editorial practice, not an argument that AIX is the correct full name.

And if you do a wiki search for AIX, what you find is

AIX is a three-letter abbreviation with multiple meanings, as described below:

   * .aix audio file, composed of several different audio files, used in some video games.
   * Athens Internet Exchange, a European Internet Exchange Point
   * IBM AIX (operating system), the brand name of IBM's proprietary UNIX operating system, where "AIX" stands for "Advanced Interactive eXecutive"
   * AIX, the brand namce of AIX Media Group for it's line of HD Surround Music titles.

It's an IBM product, a brand name. When someone not familiar with AIX finds the name "IBM AIX" they know a lot more about it than from just the truncated AIX.

A last argument: its been months, no one has reverted the edit and you seem to be the only one questioning it.

I remain convinced IBM AIX is the correct name.

But if you want to revert it, thats fine -- I won't change it back. That's how Wiki works, for better or worse. In renaming IBM hardware, the IBM PC is not named IBM 5550 PC (or whatever the model number was) because one person objected. He wouldn't even let me use a "Category:IBM hardware" on the redirect page so that both name were categorized (the way I had handled his objections to similar names for the XT and AT, as I recall).

Appreciate your patience in waiting for a reply. With apologies, tooold 18:21, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Rwwww, thank you for the detailed reply. Maybe my last question was a little bit rude. I am sorry for what happened to your wife.

In fact I do not know much about IBM products. If I find some time I will try to find more information about the AIX name and possibly to discuss it on the article's talk page. --pabouk 12:46, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

I think that as long as AIX operating system redirects to the main page IBM AIX (operating system) then we are ok. A person would still arrive at the end page without knowing that IBM is part of the name. Here are all the current redirect pages:

• IBM370/AIX
• IBM-RT/AIX
• AIX Operating System
• Advanced IBM UNIX
• Advanced Interactive eXecutive
• AIX operating system
• AIX (operating system)
• IBM AIX

--Unixguy 17:04, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

AfD nomination of IBM Tivoli Directory Integrator

An article that you have been involved in editing, IBM Tivoli Directory Integrator, has been listed by me for Wikipedia:Deletion policy|deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/IBM Tivoli Directory Integrator. Thank you. Mr Stephen 21:57, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

no problem

No problem. Thanks, it was an oversight in leaving out the initial colon on some of the categories. Bubba73 (talk), 01:12, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

REXX move to IBM REXX

I don't think you should have moved REXX to IBM REXX. Rexx started out as an IBM-only languange, but it hasn't been for quite a while. It's standardized by ANSI and there are several other implementations on non-IBM platforms. I think it should be moved back. RossPatterson 13:56, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Done. Any problems, please let me know. Thanks - think I just looked at the articles refrences, tooold 14:17, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Why move "Trusted Solaris" to "Sun Trusted Solaris" ?

Hi, I'm curious why you made this move. The product name is "Trusted Solaris", per http://www.sun.com/software/solaris/trustedsolaris/ , http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/coll/475.2 , and many other canonical locations. There is no other product with "Trusted Solaris" in its name that I can find that would require disambiguating it, such as say, "Nabisco Trusted Solaris." There are no links to "Sun Trusted Solaris" anywhere in wikipedia. In short, I think the page should remain "Trusted Solaris". Can you move it back, or would you object if I moved it back? Thanks.--NapoliRoma 09:58, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Done. I went through the "operating systems" category - which is flagged as having too many entries that should be in sub-categories - to remove redundant "operating systems" entries (redundant because articles also had a category that was a sub-category of "operating systems"). While doing that I did the move you've noticed. My preference is that products of a single vendor begin with the vendors name. Not for disambiguation, but for information. For example: not everyone knows what WebSphere is, but IBM WebSphere gives a big hint. Same for Sun. See the category Sun Microsystems software where many Sun products already begin with "Sun". Anyway, it's moved back.tooold 11:17, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Sun Spring (operating system)

I was going to ask why you moved Spring (operating system) to Sun Spring (operating system) back in June, but I see you've already answered the question in the preceding section. Since Spring was a research project, not a commercial product, would you mind if it was moved back? See Talk:Sun Spring (operating system) for details. Cheers, CWC 10:00, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

removed links above tooold 23:13, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for moving it back. Cheers, CWC 01:41, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

To this day

As long as there are people who vote, there will be voting machines, and they will be using punch cards somewhere. A punch card is a form of token. Perhaps they will exist only as tickets, which is how Hollerith got his idea anyway. BTW, I plan to move your message to my talk page instead of keeping it on the user page. --Ancheta Wis 16:46, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Removal of 3705 from Mainframe Computer category

Hey !

I noticed you removed the 3705 from the Mainframe Computer category.

I understand that the rationale behind that is that the 3705 is, in itself, NOT a mainframe.. However, it is undeniable that the 3705 can and will only operate with the cooperation of a mainframe computer (i.e. it cannot operate (or more accurately, it cannot have a purpose) standalone - either when NCP, EP or both are loaded) - thus making the 3705 an I/O controller that is so intimately related to mainframe computers that, IMHO, it makes little sense to remove it from that category - because, despite not being a mainframe computer, it is *part* of a mainframe computer (as much as a 3x74 Display CU, a 3880 Dasd CU, etc, etc..).

In retrospect, it would probably be necessary to have a 'mainframe' category with 'mainframe computers', 'mainframe devices', 'mainframe operating systems', etc.. being subcategories of that

--Ivan

PS : I noted another small fix that needs to be done to that article.. It states that the 3705 is necessarily and always channel attached.. This is not true. the 3705 (only with NCP) also existed as a remote communication controller - acting as a remote PU Type 4 - with no channel adapter.

Ivan Scott Warren 22:19, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Not sure what you want me to say. I was cleaning up the category, removed the 1620, 1401, 1410, 1440 all based on the article IBM mainframe . Removed the IBM 3705 because, as you noted, it's not a computer. Removed IBM 37xx for the same reason.

You might want to update the 3705 article for the small fix you've noted; I have no direct knowledge of it (or of most other things,it seems).

My only thought when looking at these classifications, articles, etc., is that it would be nice if the listings for computers in List of IBM products included their classification so that there was one source. tooold 01:37, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Computer software

Can I just point out that there is not actually any such category as Category:Computer software; it exists only as a redirect to Category:Software. --Paul A 07:11, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Sure, I know that. Hmmm, see that I did it more than once. Computer lists, computer hardware, ... The lack of symmetry can lead to mistakes (especially when making lots of edits). Thanks for the fixes, would have been happy to make them myself. btw, why not delete the redirect? When I key a bad category and the preview shows it, I fix it. tooold 13:50, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

I don't know. Mysterious are the ways of those who formulated the category redirects system, of whom I am not one. --Paul A

I'd like your opinion on Green IT vs. Green computing

Hi, I noticed that you originally proposed to merge the Green IT article into Green computing. Some editors dispute this, saying that Green IT is a separate topic and worthy of its own article. Please add your opinion to the discussion on Talk:Green IT. — EagleOne\^Talk 19:55, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, the discussion there exceeds my abilities and willingness to expend time on the topic. I'm engaged in a different effort (which folks might not approve of, so I haven't asked anyone!). I've been eliminating all categorizations of individual software items to the categories "Software" (where they never belonged), "Application software", and "Software by domain". It was a random collection of articles that were so categorized, useless, and the idea that every software application would be so categorized and the result of that being useful -- absurd. The replacement will be a list of categories, you can see the beginnings in Category:Application software. Thus, for example, instead of a few business applications being categorized "application software", that list takes you too Category:Business software where there are hundreds of applications. It was in course of doing that work (still in progress) that I ran across the Green articles. I was willing to note the obvious (well, it turns out not obvious to everyone) merge - but my time will continue to go into my own project. tooold 21:58, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

See my late answer to your Help desk question

Just in case you might miss my late answer to your question:

• WP:HD#WIkipedia/Google search problems - the link that will break soon.
• Wikipedia:Help_desk/Archives/2007 November 9#WIkipedia/Google search problems - the link that should work after the page archives.

You may find {{Google custom}} to be handier for your Google searches on Wikipedia than the URL style you are using. --Teratornis 23:54, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

added comments to Help desk article. THanks tooold 05:51, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Category:Application software

You've apparently turned Category:Application software into a list/outline of the related categories. I want to point out that this is far from standard category practice. Among other things, category trees (i.e. <categorytree>Category name</categorytree>) do not work with a category set up in this way. Typically, a very general category will include categories representing sub-fields, but the category page text itself will not contain a link.

I read through your comments, wrote my long response below, then came back to write some inserts. You might want to read in the same sequence; thus having a better idea as to what I was thinking (or not thinking!)

Intent was to create a list of categories, specifically a list of every category for application software. I know it's not what a category page is; I wanted to create it first and solve the Wikipedia problem later. Used the Application software category page because it was, in my opinion, useless as it stood and anyone referencing it would find the list of more help than the prior page contents.

Also, a system of links would need to be maintained from both ends. For example, Category:Graphics software does not contain a link to Category:Application software (or any other software categories).

Intent was NOT to have links from both ends. The list I've constructed is the index, it points to everything, nothing points to an index.

Therefore, please revert the edits in which you undid the Category:Application software tree. Alternatively, perhaps that category would in fact be better off as a list. In that case, it should be listed at WP:CFD, but not unilaterally emptied.

As noted below, reverting is possible. And the way Wiki works is that any one person can force that. Please be sure that is what you want.

On another note, I also see that you've been doing a lot of positive work in sorting out the software articles. I want to thank you for putting the time in to straighten things up.

I consider the list my most positive contribution and, yes, I knew that more had to be done, that it couldn't go on as a category page (if for no other reason than I didn't want people categorizing articles there).

--Eliyak T·C 09:25, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

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Glad to have someone to talk to about all this. I don't know if other users can access my "contributions" list, but if you can, you'll be amused. A clear case of obsessive/compulsive behavior.

When you say "a lot of positive work" I'm not sure just how much you've noticed. The categories "computing" and "software" each had 80 or entries, most of them removed. Hundreds (I think of redundant category entries have been removed (where an article was categorized at multiple levels in the same tree). Several categories have been deleted (I forget which, haven't kept track). There have been extensive additions using Google search ("Computing lists" had more than 100 entries added after a simple Google search). And there is more to do than has been done.

As to "application software" - and software by domain (which I have pretty much wipped out), I'm quite aware of that I've turned it into a list and that will eventually need to be recognized/changed from a category. When I looked at those categories, they had about 70 entries each. Assuming they were intended to have all "application software" articles listed I judged (without asking anyone) that

• as found, they were failures - including only a small number of the existing articles.
• indeed, the articles categorized there were categorized incorrectly - they had been dumped into a global classification instead of a more applicable category (there were very few article with both a detail category and the application software category).
• if fully populated they would still be failures - reading through a huge list on the chance of finding something, even of recognizing that the name applied to your interests, was remote
• that even if I, obsessive/compulsive that I am, were to make the investment in time to fully populate, the categories would deteriorate over time for the same reasons that the existing categories are failures.

On the assumption that the purpose of "Category:application software" was so someone could locate software of interest, I've replaced it by a list. Not a list of software articles, but a list of software categories. Thus:

• it is almost complete with all application software (especially as compared to the former(!) category). It is missing only the applicable software categories not yet located and software that is not separately categorized in a software category (although some might be included, see Religion, most is not and never will be).
• as you noted, categories update "automatically" when new articles are categorized. So all new software categorized to existing categories (which is most new software) updates (that is, can be found beginning from this list).
• for new categories, I've included instructions for updating in a <!--comment--> in the category page.
• you can find things by subject - then see the detail with a simple click.
• When you've written an article and are wondering which categories to use, besides looking at related articles, this reasonably short list identifies all the application software categories.

So, interesting items now are

• the category needs to become a list. Assuming the list is useful, as I think it is, what is it's name, how do people who will benefit from it find it (that's why I've left it in the category page thus far - you found it!)
• the whole effort may be useless. The category page has been changing to the list for several weeks and you're the 1st to notice (at least to comment). At 1 person every two weeks that 26 uses a year. A simpler solution is to delete the category; as noted above it would never work. Ah, I had the category "Commercial software" deleted for that same reason - if populated it would be useless.

Wikipedia being what it is, I or you or ... can revert. Well, more or less. What I would do is delete the list and find about 70 software pages to categorize. That gets you back to useless, in my opinion, but it can be done.

I've written my response thus far after only 1 straight-through reading of your text; I'm going to go back through your text and insert some comments. Please remember that none of this is set in concrete, I'm looking to make things useful and know that I make mistakes. tooold (talk) 20:09, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

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More.

Your comment about a link back address one of my problems(although I'm sure that's not what you were thinking about), how do people find my wonderful index? How about the following:

• move the index to the Application software article
• In text at top of every application software category (i.e. all those in my index) add something like "See Application software#Subject index to Application Software categories for a subject index of application software categories, useful for locating categories of interest, recommended when categorizing new articles."
• delete the Application software category page (for the same reasons as the commericial software page was deleted) 69.106.226.205 (talk) 21:39, 19 November 2007 (UTC)