Talk:Domingo Faustino Sarmiento

aliyah (talk) 21:03, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

First comment

I do not consider that this page is impartial. The article contains only the official version of events. Not once does the article take in consideration what the new historians, and previous revisionist historians say about Sarmiento's life and actions.

The article does not mention the facts that: Sarmiento was a very unpopular president. Sarmiento ordered to do a massive killing of the gaucho class, black race, and native people for considering them 'unfit to be part of the Argentina that he wanted to create' Sarmiento often lied in his public speeches, to back his actions, even if he had no fundaments.

Nobody is denying that he founded many schools, but the above facts are true, are also documented and hae been proven, and are not mentioned. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lucasliso (talk • contribs)

The so called “revisionist” version, is a not only biased but also militant version, despite being in certain ways the current official version.

Criticism against Sarmiento is welcome in the article, but not in the shape of pseudo historical points of view.

It’s not a fact that “Sarmiento was a very unpopular president”, that’s, besides false, a POV. It’s also false that he ordered any “massive killing”. His works do have many contradictory statements, but his “Conflicto y armonías de las razas en América” shows that he was not any kind of racist.

The paragraph that one user has been trying to impose by repetition ad nauseam said that Sarmiento was “harsh towards the lower class of Argentina”, which is very strange considering that he belonged to a “low class”, he was never rich and didn’t leave any fortune. He fought against poverty and his educational politics targeted the “lower class”, since he focused on public free basic education.

But the most bizarre statement in that paragraph is: “He would use every resource that was in his reach to exterminate them (i.e. the gauchos), often accusing them with false charges and then executing them.” Please mention a gaucho that was “accused with a false charge” and then executed by Sarmiento. And demonstrate that the adverb “often” also applies. --Filius Rosadis 13:53, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

It is true that Sarmiento's view of the Gaucho was far from positive. The original quote seams to be either "Hay que regar el suelo argentino con sangre de gaucho, que es lo único humano que tienen" ("We need to water the Pampas with Gauchos' blood, that's the only human thing they have") or "No economice sangre de gaucho que para lo único que sirve es para regar la tierra" ("Don't spare Gaucho blood, for all it's worthy for is watering the soil"). In spite of this, some historians claim he wrote that in a letter while furious, and that he referref to the Gauchos of a certain region. Nevertheless, it is clear that Sarmiento's ideas of Europeization didn't care much about the gaucho. Mariano(t/c) 13:59, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Sarmiento was quite a choleric character, that’s why he was contradictory so many times. But (1) gauchos is not the same as “lower class”; and (2) he did care about the gaucho in many of his writings (including “Recuerdos de Provincia”, and even “Facundo”, where he writes with admiration about several typically Gaucho characters, a fact that “historians” like J.M. Rosa chose to ignore). Europeization was a cultural project that didn’t involve extermination, but education and development. It was a synonym of “progress” in Sarmiento’s lexicon. --Filius Rosadis 14:08, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

It envolved both. There is a famous qoute from him saying ("We need to water the Pampas with Gauchos' blood, that's the only human thing they have"). He sure believed in Extermination but also clearly education. (XGustaX 20:11, 26 April 2007 (UTC))

Sarmiento as President

It should also be noted that later in his life, Sarmiento confesed that when he was elected president, he commited fraud in the elections in order to win.

Historians like Felipe Pigna have also confirmed this.

I'd just like to note that the entire article is taken verbatim from http://www.mundoandino.com/Argentina/Domingo-Faustino-Sarmiento. Typically I wouldn't mind, but the site isn't even listed in the sources!

To do/future sections

Intro Youth and Influences Exiles Political background Personal Philosophy Written works --> Facundo Impact on Society (written works) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rosefinn (talk • contribs) 21:45, 5 February 2008 (UTC) Impact on Education in Argentina and Chile Critisizms aliyah (talk) 21:27, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Murder Madness and Mayhem and the FA-Team

To assist WikiProject Murder Madness and Mayhem in its drive to bring this article to Featured status, a number of experienced editors from the FA-Team have volunteered their editing services to the project. To see which editors are watching this article, click here.

You can contact a specific editor directly by leaving a message on their talk page, or more generally by posting a message here. To do this, click the '+' tab at the top of the page and enter a subject title, and your message, in the editing windows that will appear. Don't forget to finish off by typing four tildes (~~~~) to automatically add your signature; you need to be logged in for this to work properly.

We're all really enthusiastic about this project, and looking forward to working with you. All the best, The FA-Team 11:14, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

aliyah (talk) 22:27, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Outline

Alright ladies, I suppose we best get on this. We decided that we were going to break it all down into these sections

Intro - Rose Youth and Influences - Aliyah Exiles - Laura Political background - Rose Personal Philosophy - Aliyah Written works --> Facundo Impact on Society - Laura written works list — All

So I'm just arbitrarily breaking it up. Shall we set a dead line to have this all sort of ready for a submission in one week? March 7th?

Sounds good, I also think we should meet up and sort out all of our information after we've all made more contributions, maybe at the end of the week or something. Let me know what works for you guys. Also, for Youth and Influences, how should that tie into the "Biography" section? The Biography portion is a lot of what Youth and Inlfuences would have, no? Should I just add some of his influences to the biography section and clean it up, or should there be an entirely new section? -Rose One more thing- I really don't know how to cite anything, I really messed up a section in there when adding to it because I don't know how to cite anything. Maybe we should get together a couple times in the next two weeks.-Rose —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rosefinn (talk • contribs) 23:29, 1 March 2008 (UTC) aliyah (talk) 03:31, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Hey Rose, I think if you just insert the link the FA team should take care of editing the citations and making them work correctly. Our concern is to put everything up, they'll worry about editing it. aliyah (talk) 22:27, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, while we shouldn't abuse the generosity of the FA-Team, it's certainly true that what's most important right now is just to get the sourced material. We can deal with format and citation styles etc. later on. --jbmurray (talk|contribs) 23:56, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I left a quick citation overview on the project talk page. For now, get the info in the article. If you want, also list your sources here, and we can show you how to put that specific source in the proper format. Karanacs (talk) 20:52, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

Cool thanks! yeah I think we're just gonna try and get as much info as we can, and worry about citing after.aliyah (talk) 22:53, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Source

Hey all, I found a good source: http://www.enotes.com/nineteenth-century-criticism/sarmiento-domingo-faustino. Check it out for more information, I've already begun to include a bit. Lpotto (talk) 04:15, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Laura, I'd say that was an OK source, but not a great one. Really, nothing beats a proper, published, scholarly source. For which nothing beats the library... --jbmurray (talk|contribs) 08:46, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

References

Hey we're having some trouble organizing our references on the article page and formatting them to wiki standards. Would someone be able to help us out with that? I tried...but it's gone wierd.aliyah (talk) 01:44, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

I've fixed the formatting there. Here's the diff between the versions so you can see what I changed [1]. You can follow this format in the rest of the article too. If you're still confused, just say so here and I'll explain in more detail. Karanacs (talk) 16:15, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Status

we were just wondering what the status of our article is at? How do we move up to b-class?aliyah (talk) 22:18, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

girls check up this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Guide_to_writing_better_articles#Lead_section for writing better articles and there are boxes on the bottom with links to more help as well!aliyah (talk) 22:23, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Hey! I'm from the FA-team. Things are looking good. I'd say you're at B-class now. I've just marked some areas that will need citations on the road to GA class. Be careful to include page numbers in your citations! Wrad (talk) 00:00, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Grand. On the basis of Wrad's judgement, I'm going to change the article class for the various projects at the head of this page. --jbmurray (talk|contribs) 01:46, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks Wrad! We'll work on that this week!aliyah (talk) 19:32, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Help!

Something seems to have messed up with the formatting, such that a whole section has become embedded within the endnotes... How did that happen? Can someone help? --jbmurray (talk|contribs) 03:59, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

I fixed it. The problem was that the reference ended /ref instead of </ref>. Karanacs (talk) 16:25, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

I figured it must have been something like that, but just couldn't see the bad code. Many thanks! --jbmurray (talk|contribs) 16:52, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Lead

The lead needs to be exanded. Cheers! Wassupwestcoast (talk) 23:01, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

In-line citations

The article needs to supply references to the sentences tagged. For example:

• "... fighting and war again resumed, and Sarmiento found himself fleeing to exile in Chile for the second time, where he stayed for five years."

An article can not be considered for GA nomination if there are any outstanding reference problems: see Quick fail criteria. Cheers! Wassupwestcoast (talk) 13:43, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Hey wassupwestcoast... we're thinking about submitting our article for good article status. I'm not so sure we're quite there yet, but do you have any other advice before we go ahead and do that? Your help thus far has been greatly appreciated!! aliyah (talk) 20:56, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Pictures

How do you upload pictures??