Talk:Polish Americans

Polish people are some nice people. Poles in Chicago when there's less than 1 million in Illinois? DHN 08:52, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Chicago's population is less than 3 million, and less than half of it is white, so how could 1.8 million Poles fit in there? DHN 08:54, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I guess because a lot of them live illegal, so they are not counted in official statistics.--Emax 13:12, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I doubt that's the case. Poles are not normally illegal immigrants, since most have already immigrated here hundreds of years ago.

OK. I checked with Polish encyclopeadia: [1] and corrected the article appropriately. Apperently the number is twice as as big as it should be (not to mention that Warsaw itself has 1.6 millions of people, which is smaller than 1.8 millions of Poles claimed to be in Chicago). 700,000 looks much more propable, giving that I also suspect that Poles in Chicago includes all people of Polish descent, not citizens of Poland, neither the Chicagians who speaks Polish. Also be aware, that many people may have ancestors from different countries, thus sum of all Poles, Serbs, Irish and other Chigacians may well exceed the 3 millions population of Chicago. Przepla 20:40, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Chicago is said to be biggest Polish community all over the world (including Poland), but I haven't find any trustworthy source proving that claim. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.205.210.199 (talk) 18:57, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Under 'Polish communities as part of Urban America', the list of cities include Portland. Is this Portland Oregon? or Maine? (or one of the smaller Portland around the country?) Darlene 2 May 2005

to dash or not to dash

Why is the article titled "Polish American" but the first words are "Polish-American"?Lefty 04:45, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

There are over 1.8 million poles living in the "CHICAGO AREA"....this includes all of the suburbs. Many Poles live in Schaumburg, Des Plaines, and Park Ridge. Polish is the second most spoken foreign language in the area. Also keep in mind....most of them are first generation or from Poland itself...so when you write down than Poles are the third highest ethnic group in Chicago behind the Germans and Irish, this would be irrelevant since the Italians and the Irish are both part of the melting pot of society by now. Thus, Polish should be first. You don't exactly go around the malls and hear Gaelic or German....instead it is either Polish or Spanish. - signed by an anon ip

Chicago is arguably the largest Polish community outside of Poland, although Pittsburgh, New York City, Buffalo NY and Detroit MI are runners-up in the total numbers of Polish persons, whether are recently arrived immigrants and/or multi-generational Americans of Polish descent. The Polish language survived by the fact the language wasn't targeted in WWI, WWII and the early cold war era as an "enemy language" unlike the Russian, German, Italian and Japanese languages was discouraged and stigmatized by wartime "patriotic" propaganda. These ethnic communities were heavily spied on by the FBI, language instruction was banned and many radio stations or newspapers was closed. The Polish language in America was fortunate not excessively curtailed and some 3rd or 4th generation Polish Americans in Chicago are fluent in it in cases when Polish immigrants moved in their neighborhoods.

There's a noticable cultural difference between Americanized Poles who don't speak the language when English was the main tongue for these descendants of late 19th-early 20th century immigrants, and Polish immigrants who are adapting to American culture over time. Polish-American identity had enjoyed a slow but noticable revival in the 1960s and early 70s, esp. when the TV show "All in the Family" introduced a notorious fictional bigot character Archie Bunker, whom called his son-in-law Michael whose of Polish descent a few ethnic slurs deemed offensive to Polish-Americans and he said comments about Polish people but of comical value to demonstrate the negative attitudes some ignorant Americans had of Polish people. But to be Polish today is much alike to be Irish, Italian, Greek, German or other white "ethnic" descent, or nowadays in a multiracial/multicultural America, the Polish American culture hasn't formally died out. +71.102.53.48 (talk) 18:00, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

First Poles in America

The first bunch of settlers from 1620, anyone is willing to write something about them? Szopen 11:11, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Rename

First, plurarl - Polish Americans - sounds better then singular. Second, what about Polish minority in United States/Polonia in United States?-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  18:00, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Polish American Pantheon

I'd like to complete the infobox with photos of some recognizable Polish-Americans. An example of this can be seen in the Poles infobox. I think six such persons should be adequate but I'd like your input on who those people should be. Ideally I think we should have people from the world of business, movies, music, politics, and sports.

I have come up with a short list of such people:

• Janusz Kamiński
• Warner Brothers
• Richie Sambora
• Pat Sajak
• Martha Stewart
• Tadeusz Kościuszko
• Kazimierz Pułaski
• Chuck Hagel
• Karol J. Bobko
• Tara Lipinski
• Dan Marino
• Bill Romanowski

What do you think? JRWalko 01:50, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Buffalo?

Norum (talk · contribs) added Buffalo as "one of the most notable Polish-American communities". I understand that Chicago is notable by the mere fact that it has the largest ethnically Polish population outside Poland (1 million, according to our article). But in what way is is the Polish community in Buffalo, NY notable? How many Poles live there? (Total pop 300,000, roughly half of them white, including "very sizable populations of Italian, Polish, Irish, German [...] descent"). Our article says that

the city's East Side was once home of Buffalo's Polonia ... [but] is now home to African Americans

Is Buffalo home to any well-known Polish-American people or institutions? --Austrian 14:44, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

300,000 out of a million, thats quite a big percentage. Plus every third person in the region has Polish last name. Austrian, to answer your question. Famous Polish-Americans from Buffalo: Johnny Rzeznik, Christine Baranski, Lt. Col. Matt Louis Urban, Louis Dlugosz, Joseph Bakos, Joseph Slawinski, Marion M. Rzeznik, Joseph E. Fronczak to name just a few. Need I say more?

Polish Institutions in Buffalo and area? - St. Stanislau's Church, Corpus Christi Church on the East Side, Holy Mother of the Rosary Polish National Cathedral, Adam Mickiewicz Library & Dramatic Circle, Polish Academic Information Center, The Polish Community Center, Malczewski Poultry, Burzynski Imports, Paul Redlinski & Sons, Ruda's Polkas & Polish Gifts,

Also, check this link to the Polish-American Heritage in Buffalo & Erie County:

http://www.wnylrc.org/dhp/ethnic/hspolish.htm

Norum 15:17, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

The University at Buffalo also has the Polish Room. The collection inclueds over 12,000 volumes and "21 manuscripts of the Polish kings from the 16th to 18th centuries, and letters and other signed documents of important people of the 20th century, including writers such as: Stefan Zeromski, Maria Konopnicka, and Maria Dabrowska"

http://ublib.buffalo.edu/libraries/asl/guides/polish-room/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.207.88.70 (talk) 13:51, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Tadeusz Kościuszko and Kazimierz Pułaski

I do not think these two should be in the category "Polish Americans". They only fought in the US, but later on they went back. Therefore, I think they should be removed from this catgory.

Norum 04:11, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Kosciuszko was a US citizen and Pulaski is currently under consideration for the Honorary Citizen of the United States title. Pulaski did not go back, he died during the American Revolutionary War.JRWalko 15:39, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

However, Kościuszko went back, therefore he can not be considered as Polish-American. Poles in Poland certainly don't consider him to be Polish-American, just Polish. Plus I have not seen it mentioned anywhere that he held American citizenship. Polish Wikipedian certainly doesn't say anything about it. As for Pułaski....even if he gets his "honorary" citizenship, he also can not be considered as Polish American due to the fact he never held a real American citizenship during his life time.

Norum 00:58, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

I don't know what the source is but the English wiki says Kosciuszko was a US citizen. I would think this would be correct seeing as he was a general in the Continetal Army. Pulaski died before formal naturalizations took place.

To me there's no real difference between Polish and Polish-American for those two because of the times they lived in. There was no US at the time and most of the people who fought on the American side were considered American. It wasn't a nationality per se. It was more of a common cause. What exactly makes someone an American?

Same thing can be noted about Marquis de La Fayette who was French, but fought in the war, so is in America considered a French-American. [[von Steuben[]] also German-Prussian considered German-American. A footnote may be necessary but given their deeds and popularity in the US I think this label is appropriate. JRWalko 01:46, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Backward thinking in America.....

Norum 03:38, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Polish Tatars

I've initially removed references to Polish Tatars because every text I've seen on the subject identifies them as a separate ethnic group. The article on Polish Americans should be about the ethnic group of Poles who became American and not about Polish Tatars who became American. Perhaps a Tatar Americans article should be created to accommodate this difference. An inclusion into this article would have more to do with the geographic situation in the PLC rather than group differences. JRWalko 02:02, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

• Tatars are indeed a separate ethnographic group, like the Gorals (of Wallachian origin) or the Kashubes who speak a totally different language. They are Poles because that is how they identify themselves by 'national orientation' in that they see themselves as a 'type' (in this case old family Muslim). I elaborate my argument further on JRWalko's talk page.

How can their national orientation be Polish when they check off Tatars in the Polish national census? Similarly Gorals and Kashubians also declare themselves separate from Polish in the national census. Sorbs who immigrated into the US are not German Americans are they? The point is that in order for Wikipedia articles to be relevant we have to stick to established rules of classifying ethnic groups and not who feels like being in them. Additionally how many people of Tatar origin are actually included in the US census in the Polish descent category? The fact that Lipka Tatars live in many countries and identify themselves as that across national boundaries suggests they are a broader ethnic group that shouldn't be included in another. JRWalko 16:48, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Since John Paul II was a Goral, does this mean that he was not Polish? Gorals are also found in Slovakia, who although they speak a dialect of Polish declare tehmselves as ardent Slovaks. Additionally what does it mean when the article refers to the Polish Lipka Tartars as being 'Polonized'. Are Milosz and Mickiewicz not Polish authors since they both considered themselves Lithuanians? Was presidential candidate Donald Tusk not a Pole even though he ran for the Polish Presidency because he is also a Cassubian? What does the Kaszub quote of activist Antoni Abraham mean when he said, Nie ma Kaszub bez Polski, a Polski bez Kaszub. He was a Kaszub and a Polish Patriot. Being a Tatar, Goral, Kaszub does not mean one can't also be Polish

As to how many people of Tatar origin count themselves as 'Poles' Norman Davies writes on p. 210 in his book "Europe East And West" "When I went to New York for the first time in the 1970's and visited the Pilsudski Institute, I was amazed to meet the secretary of the institute, pani Zarema, who WAS ENTIRELY POLISH (capitals mine) but introduced herself as a Muslim. Her father had been a colonel in 1939 of the Tartar Cavalry. These Tartars had been ENTIRELY POLONIZED IN SECULAR CULTURE, but were still practicing Muslims. A handful of settlements and mosques still survive in the region". If someone feels dedicated to the Polish cause to the extent that they VOLUNTEER at the Polish cultural center of NYC, isn't it fair to assume that they declare themselves as Poles in the census?----Orestek 03:20, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

As for Sorbs, they ARE NOT German in National Orientation, which highlights my point, since Tatars in Poland are Polish in National Orientation. The ID for the Polish census for these communities is not about national identification, but the money from the MSW for social projects, just like the race category in the US.--Orestek 03:25, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Some history

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12204c.htm Kowalmistrz 19:03, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Clifton Heights PA should be included in communities. It has a Polish American Club as soon as you enter the town. Also a Polish speaking Church called Sacred Heart in the town.

Deletion discussion

See Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/List_of_Polish_Americans_(2nd_nomination). Badagnani 02:08, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Religion

Why are so many churches in Cleveland listed in this section and not in Cleveland? This doesn't seem to make sense. It's a more general topic - perhaps there should be something about changes in services as language use changed, for instance.--Parkwells (talk) 03:40, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Polish Independence

Section on ocupations stated: "After Poland became separated from Russia in 1920 (...)". I have changed it to "After Poland regained independence in 1918 (...)". This is more accurate, since the area of Poland was created from areas belonging to Russia, Germany and Austria before the 1st World War. The date was simply wrong (ref. History of Poland (1918-1939)). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Llewelyn MT (talk • contribs) 18:37, 10 May 2008 (UTC)