Talk:H-1B visa

This article is a mess.

It reflects the conflict between industry lobbyists, worker advocates and H-1B workers. This gives the article an incoherent tone. I also add that the "lobbyist spins" here have added completely false or misleading information. The "immigrant" spins have added pour gramer and Englesh. Even the "neutrality" disputes here are calls for advocacy.

The "Congressional Yearly Numerical Cap" is pretty much factually correct but poorly written.

The "Employer Attestations to Protect U.S. Workers" section looks like it was created as a propaganda piece to make it appear as though there are real protections for U.S. workers in the H-1B program. The additions, while factual, are incoherent.

The "H-1B Fees Earmarked for U.S. Worker Education and Training" section looks like it was added as a propaganda section. No one filled it out. It does not describe the nature of the fees in detail; where they go; or even some of the criticisms of their effectiveness.

The "income taxation" section here is nonsensical. It sounds like it was written by an H-1B worker trying to prove he pays taxes.

The "U.S. policy on maximum duration" is incoherent.

"H-1B and legal immigration" is poorly written and does not include citations. The H-1B program is specifically exempted from the non-immigrant intent requirement for most visas.

"Quotas and changes in quotas" the writing here isn't great but finally a section that is factually accurate.

This section "H-1B-dependent employers" makes no sense. It comes out of the blue. There is no mention of the H-1B Dependent concept being created in 1998; expiring at 2003; then being renewed again in 2004.

"Criticisms of the Program" This section is disjointed -- though factually accurate.

"Guy Santiglia v. Sun Microsystems" This case failed. So what's the point? Shah v. Wilco Systems is the prevailing case in H-1B law there is no mention.

"Criticisms by H-1B holders" should go in the previous section. However, the inability of spouses to work on H-1B visas should be just a factual statement in the description, not a criticism. Payment of out-of-state tuition is a matter of state law. It is simply a gripe. It is factually stated later in the article. (Dependents of H-1B visa holders) "An H-1B Worker Faces Additional Obstacles at His/Her Workplace" is factual but written as a gripe.

"Worker protection and law enforcement" duplicates a previous section. HOWEVER, this is the best written and most factually accurate section in the entire article.

"Recent changes to U.S. law" so poorly written I can't understand it.

"Similar programs" Second best section.

"Dependents of H-1B visa holders" third best section

70.111.227.90 (talk) 18:41, 15 July 2008 (UTC)Faceman28208

Non-availability of U.S. citizens requirement

"It allows U.S. employers to employ foreign guest workers skilled in specialty occupations only when qualified U.S. citizens or residents are not available."

The article on United_States_visas says: "Contrary to popular myth, there is no requirement whatsoever that employers must prove they could not find U.S. workers before hiring H-1B workers"

Also, the cited source is dubious. Does anyone have reliable information on this? 86.212.5.35 (talk) 14:30, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Please see the wikipedia section of this article titled "Employer Attestations to Protect U.S. Workers." This wikipedia article is, apparently, contradicting itself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.25.173.71 (talk) 16:25, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

US Department of Labor's Strategic Plan on page 35 states: "H-1B workers may be hired even when a qualified U.S. worker wants the job, and a U.S. worker can be displaced from the job in favor of the foreign worker." http://www.dol.gov/_sec/stratplan/strat_plan_2006_2011.pdf http://programmersguild.blogspot.com/2007/04/news-flash-corporate-executives-and.html

The Federal Register 2006-06-30, Sec. 2, paragraph 4: "the statute does not require employers... to demonstrate that there are no available US workers or to test the labor market for US workers as required under the permanent labor certification program." (from Donna Conroy)

"A small number of H-1B employers are required to make additional attestations concerning the non-displacement and recruitment of U.S. workers... All employers are also required to make four attestations on the application as to: 1. Wages: The employer will pay non-immigrants at least the local prevailing wage or the employer’s actual wage, whichever is higher, and pay for non-productive time caused by a decision made by the employer; and offer nonimmigrants benefits on the same basis as U.S. workers. 2. Working conditions: The employment of H-1B non-immigrants will not adversely affect the working conditions of U.S. workers similarly employed. 3. Strike, lock-out, or work stoppage: No strike or lockout exists in the occupational classification at the place of employment. 4. Notification: The employer has notified employees at the place of employment of the intent to employ H-1B workers... Certain employers are required to make 3 additional attestations on their application. These additional attestations apply to H-1B employers who: (1) are H-1B dependent, that is, generally those whose workforce is comprised of 15 percent or more H-1B nonimmigrant employees; or (2) are found by [the Department of Labor] to have committed either a willful failure to meet H-1B program requirements or misrepresented a material fact in an application during the previous 5 years. These employers are required to additionally attest that: (1) they did not displace a U.S. worker within the period of 90 days before and 90 days after filing a petition for an H-1B worker; (2) they took good faith steps prior to filing the H-1B application to recruit U.S. workers and that they offered the job to a U.S. applicant who was equally or better qualified than an H-1B worker; and (3) prior to placing the H-1B worker with another employer, they inquired and have no knowledge as to that employer’s action or intent to displace a U.S. worker within the 90 days before and 90 days after the placement of the H-1B worker with that employer... These additional requirements first applied from 2001 January 19 - 2003 September 30. However, the provision requiring these attestations sun-setted, or expired, and was not reinstituted until 2005 March 8. Consequently, from 2003 October 1 to 2005 March 7, H-1B dependent employers and willful violator employers were not required to make the additional attestations, and, in effect, were able to hire H-1B workers even if they displaced U.S. workers and did not make efforts to recruit U.S. workers." --- Sigurd R. Nilson 2006-06-22 GAO "H-1B Visa Program: More Oversight by Labor Can Improve Compliance with Program Requirements" http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d06901t.pdf —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.44.20.55 (talk) 18:22, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Milton Friedman quotation

find the primary source for this quotation that an H1-B amounts to a subsidy.  It doesn't  very Friedman to me.

--- Actually it does, given that Friedman was a libertarian. Googling for the quote turns up references to it in publications like Computerworld, but I didn't research far enough to find the origin.

- - - The earliest I found was this ComputerWorld article by Paul Donnelly 2002 July: http://computerworld.com/printthis/2002/0,4814,72848,00.html http://www.computerworld.com/careertopics/careers/labor/story/0,10801,72848,00.html

Then Gene Nelson and Frosty Wooldridge referred to it 2003 November: http://michnews.com/artman/publish/article_1741.shtml and again 2005 April: http://www.newswithviews.com/Wooldridge/frosty52.htm

It may have come from a private interview of Friedman by Donnelly.

Need to Add a Section on Microsoft

In March 2008, Bill Gates testified before Congress, claiming that the software industry needs more H-1B visas because technology is analogous to the Olympics and America needs the best tech minds. This is, of course, pure baloney used to rationalize replacing American workers with low-cost foreign labor. People such as Gates would have us believe that H-1B workers are superb intellectuals with doctorates, but the reality is that most H-1B workers have just undergraduate training. Hiring cheap foreign labor helps corporations make profits, but the losers are American workers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.44.145.224 (talk) 20:47, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

H1 B Transfer

I have a valid H1B stamped but my sponser hasn't given me neither the original H1B petition nor a copy of those documents. My question is can I have my existing H1B transfered to a new employer? If I do not have a copy of petition how can I get it? - apoore20.139.67.50 11:57, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Abuse & Corruption Allegations=

H1B and L1 visa is a disaster for America. 

It is no difference than illigal mexican immigration. There is no check who is qualified or not. DOL and USCIS just blindly issues H-1B and L1 to foreigners without testing their skills and education. Any Indian with fake document can get an H-1B and L1 visa. It is a massive disaster for America. In many cases, companies are replacing highly qualified Americans who have earned a REAL degree from a US university with Indian H1-B's from low quality dipoloma-mills that earned their degree in 6 months! Sure, those displaced Americans find jobs, but many of them are working in fields requiring little or no tech skill as result, such as technical marketings and sales while the skilled work is performed by lower-grader H1-B's who learn on the job and work for 10-20% less. its ridiculus. Congress should ban all Indian Companies in USA who like to hire L1 and H-1B. Any company want to do business in USA must hire US citizens or train US citizens to do the job.

Misc

I wonder if the 3 links lately [added] anonymously really bear enough information to be present on the page. This looks more like propaganda too me.

http://www.geocities.com/dbdoggle is particularly dreadful -- its absurd premise is that bussiness's goal is to keep workers (especially white males over 30) unproductive and unemployed, so that they can use these shell companies to collect government grants. http://www.geocities.com/dbdoggle/?200619#nasa is particularly amusing. 71.139.55.50 23:03, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

H1b visa cap

THe H1b visa cap has been mentioned as being 65,000 per year. There is a proposal, S2611, sponsored by Arlen Specter in the 109th congress, to increase this to 115,000 per year, but it did not pass.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c109:S.2611.PCS:

The annual "limit" on H-1B visas, such as it is, is over 85K, not 65K. Reporting it as 65K would be misleading. It is broken down as follows, according to information obtained from the USCIS web site (I'd give a URL, but they keep moving it around and the last time I checked it was a temporary, dynamically created page): 1,400 nationals of Chile; 5,400 nationals of Singapore; 20,000 with master's and doctor's degrees from US colleges and universities; 58,200 with "bachelor's degrees or equivalent experience" from any hole-in-the-wall in the world; unlimited visas for those employed by non-profit research outfits; unlimited visas for those employed for local, state and federal research; unlimited visas for those employed by US colleges & universities.

But the numbers of applications approved each year exceed those numbers, according the the USCIS annual report "Characteristics of Specialty Occupation Workers (H-1B)": year Initial renewed+extended total 1999 134,411 na na 2000 136,787 120,853 257,640 2001 201,079 130,127 331,206 2002 103,584 93,953 197,537 2003 105,314 112,026 217,340 2004 130,497 156,921 287,418 2005 116,927 150,204 267,131 year Initial renewed+extended total

The numbers of visas actually issued, OTOH, is what matters. These numbers are available in the State Department's annual reports, and include new visas issued, renewals and extensions processed within each noted fiscal year: 1996 58,327 1997 80,547 1998 91,360 1999 116,513 2000 133,290 2001 161,643 2002 118,352 2003 107,196 2004 138,977 2005 124,374 2006 135,861 2007 154,690 http://www.travel.state.gov/visa/frvi/statistics/statistics_4179.html http://travel.state.gov/pdf/FY07AnnualReportTableXVIA.pdf http://travel.state.gov/pdf/FY07AnnualReportTableXVIB.pdf http://travel.state.gov/pdf/FY06AnnualReportTableXVIA.pdf

There are usually a few thousand unclaimed visas each year, primarily from the sub-categories set aside for Chile and Singapore. USCIS says they roll these over, adding them to the 58,200 general allotment for the next year.

Visa Statistics related to Outsourcing Firms

• Crackdown on Indian Outsourcing Firms

This is not a crackdown. The Indian firms have clearly explained that they earlier preferred Business visa's for their consultants to travel to the USA for knowledge transfer. However, the American embassy in India advised the Indian firms to use H1B so that USA may benefit from the tax payed by these workers.

Can anyone help?

I recently changed employers, I was on an H1-B, I'm now working for my new employer as we wait for the new petition (a.k.a "h1-transfer") is done. In the meantime, I received a way way better offer for a job. Can I apply for a second h1-b as I wait for this one and leave my current job? or should I wait for the current petition to be approved until I start the next petition process? --69.112.255.195 21:25, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

I followed them and on two I had to search around for info on H-1B visas, and then it was only to oppose them. They are not serious discussions of the merits, or even demerits, of the visas, if that is what you were looking for. (speaking of anonymity - don't forget to sign your own 'talk' page additions). Willmcw 22:35, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)

The programme allows for more than just engineers, scientists and programmers. It's open in principle to any professional with a relevant degree, qualification or experience. For instance, I work in the USA on the H-1B visa as a financial risk manager on the strength of a physics degree, MBA and ~8 years of experience. I'll try to find time to correct this with somre references if nobody beats me to it. Simon

Computer disciplines (job codes 030 - 039) make up over 50% of all H-1B non-immigrants. The next highest category is either engineering or health workers, depending on the year. Among the 3.6 million H-1B admissions, there are very, very few scientists, mathematicians, or micro-biologists, as the propaganda begs. See globalism. Incidently, I am one of those replaced citizens. Danarothrock 10:35, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

other source of income

I understand the an H1-B holder can only (legally, haha) work for the employer listed on the visa. What about other sources of income such as self-employing jobs (e.g. tutoring, website design), investing in stocks, or selling goods on ebay? What if the person has not yet converted to an H1-B and still on OPT? Does that change anything?

--Chochopk 05:36, 10 September 2005 (UTC)

neutrality dispute

The H1B article takes a biased view on the H1B visa. It is sad that wiki that should strive to become a platform for all the citizens of the world has been converted into a propoganda medium for jingoists. The articles does not touches on the pain and the plight of H1B workers from India and China who have spent 6 years of their life contributing to the American economy, consider it their home, and now live a life as vagabonds waiting for a green card to come through. The article completely ignores the contribution of the H1B workers as code coolies doing jobs such as code maintenance, automation, localization etc.that American citizens do not want to do. The fact is that it is expensive for an non-American to do undergraduate studies in US and so the percentage is low. Masters and higher studies is typically funded by the college for all the students. If American students do not want to avail of this opportunity then it is their fault and not a fault of H1B workers. On wage depression: the survey quoted does not accounts for Cost to Company which is the real metric that should have been taken and 15% reduction could be easily explained by things such as the lawyer cost and the government charges that are paid to the American government for brining in the worker. The survey ignores the fact that once the H1B worker moves to green card this difference disappears. The criticism of American workers is completely unfounded and based on their fear of competition. They are behaving like cartels of Indian companies before globalization who wanted the rates that they desire for the inferior services they provide.

This article was recently edited to suggest that the locking in of an H-1B visa holder to a particular employer because of green card processing is a thing of the past. The person doing the edit correctly noted that PERM allows for fast labor certification, and AC21 allows a person to switch jobs after the I-485 has been pending for at least 180 days. However, this person neglects to mention that due to priority date retrogression, many people are ineligible to file I-485 at the current time. Thus, they may well still be stuck with their sponsoring employer for many years. There are also many old labor certification cases pending under pre-PERM rules. If those labor certifications are withdrawn and replaced with PERM applications, processing times will improve in a major way but the person will also lose their favorable priority date. Priority date has become a major issue in employment based green card cases in a way that it previously wasn't. Thus the employee often still remains locked in with a specific employer for an extended period, although the legal specifics as to why have changed a bit. Thus, the neutrality of the recent edit to this page is disputed.

--Dash77 07:24, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

I see your point, but disagree on the scope. As I understand it, the latest USCIS memo on AC21 implementation and green card portability allows the H1B holder to change jobs once their I140 is approved and I485 is filed but unadjudicated for six months. The only persons ineligible to file I485 in the last few months (as you mentioned) are Indian and Chinese applicants for whom priority dates have retrogressed in the EB2 and EB3 categories. H1B's from other countries are generally unaffected. It's likely that this is only a short term issue as the Senate Judiciary Committee has already voted to take action to address the priority date retrogression for these cases. (see http://www.competeamerica.org/news/alliance_pr/20051020_visashort.html)

(above comment was unsigned, by an IP editor)

• If "CompeteAmerica" (formerly known as American Business for Legal Immigration or ABLI, a lobbying coalition of hi-tech companies that promote expansion of the H-1B visa program) is as reliable with its prognostications about H-1B legislation as it is with the "factual" information on its website, then the issue may in fact be a longer-term issue after all and will need fixing.--Ray921 03:59, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

---

I removed an appallingly opinionated paragraph from the "US policy on maximum duration" section, which effectively insinuated that H-1Bs were third-worlders looking for a shortcut to US permanent residency. Pretty typical paranoia, but extremely non-NPOV. Jmason 18:17, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

• The removed text had a viewpoint, but a revision may have been preferable to deletion. Does anyone know the percentage of H1-B holders who apply for permanent residency? --Ray921 17:53, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't know the % who apply for PR off hand. One thing to consider - it is not just developing world H-1B holders who apply for PR - those of the developed world do it too. Robert Brockway 21:31, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

I know many persons from Canada, Germany, UK, and other "first world" nations that have used the H-1B as a stepping stone to permanent residence.Offshore1 00:20, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Are you uncomfortable with them. You are definitely concerned as you have taken the trouble of mentioning it.

statement by Dr. Gene Nelson

The retrogression issue and an attempt to "recapture" unused visa numbers from previous years was added to the Senate bill late in the process, so that the controversial changes were less likely to be detected. However, due to the House Majority leader, Rep. Tom DeLay being under indictment for violation of State of Texas election rules barring particular uses of corporate money, DeLay was unable (or unwilling) to push for passage in the House. Restrictionist groups such as http://www.NumbersUSA.com also played a role in having the immigration provisions stripped from the bill that emerged from the House - Senate Conference Committee that was signed by President Bush.

A general note regarding the lack of neutrality of this article: There is scant mention made of the huge direct and opportunity costs incurred by a trained U.S. technical professional when they are permanently displaced by a H-1B visa holder. As one of these professionals, who has twice testified in the U.S. House of Representatives, I view the article as extremely biased. We are neglected stakeholders. The article tone is closer to "Wikipedia endorses this visa program."

Here are some items to lend more balance:

http://www.AnAmericanScam.com My website documents some of the connections between corrupt lobbyist Jack Abramoff and corporations such as Microsoft that have procured expansions of the controversial H-1B visa program. ____________________________________________________________

Watch for my upcoming book: An American Scam - How Special Interests Undermine American Security with Endless "Techie" Gluts e-mail the author for a gratis 37 - page special Congressional Summary, updated in January, 2006 ____________________________________________________________

See my two published articles in The Social Contract. Please view the much more readable PDF version, whose link appears on the page.

Colleges have become Career Destruction Factories (Spring, 2005) http://www.thesocialcontract.com/cgi-bin/showarticle.pl?articleID=1313&terms=

How NOT to 'Solve' the Social Security Problem (Summer, 1999) http://www.thesocialcontract.com/cgi-bin/showarticle.pl?articleID=810&terms=

____________________________________________________________

Dr. Gene Nelson Dallas, Texas USA c0030180[at]airmail.net Please substitute "@" for "[at]"

Your site on "AnAmericanScam" is not functioning. I get the following:

The requested resource is currently locked. The lock must be released or proper identification given before the method can be applied.

random comments

_______

Given that most H-1Bs are from India or China, the program continues to look like indentured servitude.

-dave chapman

I have added some of Dash77's remarks to the article. Does it now address your concerns? Mamawrites ^{& listens} 22:18, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

PS -- I have also added sections to the article, and generally wikified it according to WP:MOS. Mamawrites ^{& listens} 22:18, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

While I havn't met any Chinese on an H-1B visa, The Indians on H-1Bs I'm aware of are all IT workers and their salaries are competive. 168.166.196.40 21:54, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

I beg to differ. I do know chinese on H1B visas. I also know Indians who came to US for education and rely on H1B visa post-education for jobs [non-IT jobs] - electrical, civil, chemical, environmental, metallurgical and manufacturing engineers to name a few areas. Both these communities hate to hell the Indian H1B wasters - the IT companies that apply for H1B visas for a large number of their employees and do not even use them. Does anyone have statistics of H1B visas issued that are not used for entry to US? - cloud9ine

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.226.230.36 (talk) 22:28, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

All of the Indians on H-1Bs I'm aware of are working in IT for salaries equivalent to trainees. As they are being trained on the job, it is appropriate. Danarothrock 01:36, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

I have no comments on foreigners who just come here on H1 and take up jobs. What about those who came here, spent 2 or more years in a US university, paying fees, contributing to society and economy. If they are as well or better qualified as someone else, shouldn't they be offered the opportunity. I agree that it should not be through H1B, but better means ought to be devised. Also, when H1 transfers are allowed, is it legal for a company to have its workers file a H1B visa filing fee repayment agreement if they leave the company within the first year? Doesn't this affect the Labor Conditions Application provisions?

breakdown by nation

is there any data out there that breaks down the H1-B visa holders by nation of origin? Mokwella 23:28, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

• yes, either dept of labor or immigration or homeland security has a stats page like this, i think. SchmuckyTheCat 07:45, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

Mokwella, good question. I will add it to the main story. Danarothrock 01:40, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Since the effort to get this added has stalled, let me clarify here that the number of new work visas for citizens of each country is broken down by visa category in the annual "Handbook of Immigration Statistics" published by the Dept. of Homeland Security starting in 2002 or in the annual "Statistical Yearbook" published by INS. Table numbers vary by year, but the data you seek can be accessed by choosing "Temporary Admissions" and browsing for the desired table (stored in Excel format after FY1997), entitled something like "Nonimmigrants admitted as temporary workers, exchange visitors, and intracompany transferees by region and country of citizenship."

http://www.uscis.gov/graphics/shared/statistics/yearbook/YrBk04TA.htm (select Table 25 for FY 2004) and either http://www.uscis.gov/graphics/shared/statistics/archives/index.htm#yearbook or http://www.ailc.com/shared/statistics/archives/index.htm (for fiscal years prior to 2004):

FY2003, Table 25; FY2002, Table 27; FY2001, Table 38; FY2000, Table 38; FY1999, Table 38; FY1998, Table 40; FY1997, Table 40, p. 122 of pdf file, repeats the information for FY1996 (data for FY1997 have never been published, though in FY1998 there is a buried comment in the text suggesting that they were destroyed).

I am unaware of electronic availability of the INS Statistical Yearbook prior to 1996, but would appreciate any reference.--Ray921 04:48, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

External Link Looking for a Home

Back in 1998, Dr. Norman Matloff of UC Davis testified to Congress about the Software Labor Shortage (or rather it's lack as he indicated). I always liked his argument and was wondering if this would be an appropriate addition to the 'External Links' section (I'd originally considered Outsourcing but this page seems like a better match). I was considering something like this:

• Debunking the Myth of a Desperate Software Labor Shortage by Dr. Norman Matloff, Department of Computer Science University of California at Davis. Testimony Dr. Matloff presented to the U.S. House Judiciary Committee Subcommittee on Immigration in 1998. Updated through 2002.

Does this seem appropriate to everyone? --KNHaw 04:14, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

FYI, since I did not hear any objections I added it to the article. --KNHaw 22:09, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Common Misconceptions

The common misconception section should be removed. If it isn't a copyvio, it's still a completely inappropriate format for Wikipedia. Any useful material should be integrated into the article proper. Superm401 - Talk 02:15, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

I agree, and I am removing it now. It doesn't belong and is extremely POV, biased in favor of H1B.

Anti-H-1B sites

I cannot see how a list of sites of dubious quality with little or no verifiable information such as that contained in under "Anti-H-1B sites" has any place in this article. I think that having this list of links violates the spirit of NPOV. -GLG

Or at least we should have a list of "pro H1B" sites, such as immigrant rights sites, but I do favor removing this list altogether. Quase 21:08, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Pro-H1B sites are not encyclopedic because the only ones I know of are commercial/spam "for a big fee, we'll help you navigate all the visa requirements and immigrate to the United States!!!" sites. Anti-H1B sites are encyclopedic because they provide sourced critical information on this program including firsthand testimonies from those American workers who have been directly harmed and displaced from their jobs.

White-washing by people who benifit from H-1B programs is unacceptable. the article must present both sides including research supporting contrary evidence to what the white-washers believe.

---

The Zazona site is run by Rob Sanchez, who probably knows more about the H-1B program than anyone. I think it's beneficial to keep that link. Though it is a good point that there be a pro-H1B link for balance. EB.

Can you please be leave behind your POVs

I do not know if you understand this but Wikipedia is supposed to provide information, not viewpoint. Eg. in this article the first line is ' H1B is a controversial program.....' Compare that with

' H1B is a program...... There have been controversies about it....'

Maybe the extreme urge to pour in one's extreme personal vitriol / frustration leads people to not see the above. Please, this is not a blog or a discussion forum, this is an encyclopedia. Step back, look at what you just edited, and judge for yourself if that sounds like information or your personal rant. How on earth can a website titled 'he claims to have seen H1B fraud first hand' be encyclopedic? I am sorry but personal websites of unnamed people with random unsubstantiated rant is not encyclopedic.

The fact that there is so much polarized bickering *here* is documentation alone that it is "controversial". Web searches will verify that it is controversial. The controversy itself even made the cover of Information Week, if I am not mistaken (or was it Computer World?). Anyhow, here is an example from Computer World titled "H-1B Remains a Hot-Button Issue"[1]

I agree with the last comment. It would be incomplete to describe a partisan program without mentioning that it is partisan. In particular, the suggested use of the words "have been" in the first comment indicates incorrectly that the controversy is in the past. EB.

POV Assertions and Unformatted Data

I removed a paragraph I thought was POV (it included text such as "Immigration policies have Constitutional protections of American jobs, wages, and workplaces. Willful violation of these protections is a major fraud against the United States."). I also took out a large unformatted table, though that could possibly be wikified and and included. Before replacing this content, please discuss it here first. Superm401 - Talk 19:59, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Superm401, I don't know the poster of the table you removed, but restoring the deleted table (with linearly interpolated values replacing his minimal values for missing data and perhaps inclusion of O-1 visas, together with a graph to let the reader judge the appropriateness of the interpolations) would add tremendously to the article for many reasons, not the least of which is to offset the bias in the selective treatment and minimization of the number of H-1B (and other) visas exhibited in the current text of "Quotas . . . ." That section admittedly concedes that there are "exceptions" to the cap for some workers, but conveys no information about how dramatic those exemptions from the cap actually are -- so that the number of H-1B visas actually granted in recent years with the progressively expanding exemptions, has been far more than the so-called cap, making the "exceptions" almost the rule. Thus in 2003, the "cap" for granting H1B visas reverted to 65,000 for FY 2004, but the government issued 386,821 H-1B visas for FY 2004, soaking up whatever growth in technical jobs there may have been. In addition, in FY 1999 and 2005, despite retroactive increases in the cap, INS/DHS still substantially violated the cap on the H-1Bs still subject to a cap. Does everyone understand why citing only the "cap" is misleading?

One of the problems in discussing these issues is that the US government has been lackadaisical in collecting the data -- e.g., their report for FY 1997 reported that the FY 1996 data for H-1Bs was unavailable at press time and in 1999 they finally announced without further explanation that reliable FY 1997 H-1B data were unavailable; I'm so far unable to find any published data for H-1Bs issued for fiscal years 1986-1988 and 1991-1994. The data required to make sound, intelligent judgments on the program and its effects without wading through reams of text, are often simply not collected.

I have also created some tabular information based on raw data from NSF that might I might be able to contribute, but would appreciate any guidance on how to "wikify" it if I can find the time. [I'm a newbie at this, so please be gentle when pointing out my Wikipedia policy transgressions.--Ray921 21:24, 22 June 2006 (UTC).

Degree requirements

I think that you should add to the introduction that a Bachelor's degree in a field related to the offered position is a minimum requirement for the visa category. -GG

• The statement is generally true for applicants in science and engineering, who constitute about 90% of the H-1B recipients, but is not necessarily true -- the reality is far more confused than that because the H-1B is such a desirable visa.

• H-1B visas are issued for fashion models, entertainers, artists, writers, workers in religion and theology, and officials, who do not necessarily require a bachelor's degree. Presumably the H-1B is sought rather than the P-1, P-2, P-3, Q-1, or R-1, (which are special work visas for athletes, entertainers, artists, writers, and religious occupations) because one can apply for permanent residence while working here under that visa; they may also be longer-term visas, but I have not checked on that.

• In FY 2000, level of education was unknown for 10.1% of all approved new H-1B applicants; 2.4% of the remaining 89.9% of approved H-1B visa applicants lacked a bachelor's degree. If Citizenship and Immigration Services (CIS) approves that many H-1Bs without even knowing educational attainment, it's hard to call it an unqualified minimum requirement.

• It should also be noted that the majority of H-1B visas granted in technical areas are granted to people with only a bachelor's degree; in FY 2000, ignoring the 8.5% whose education level is unknown, only 36% of new H-1Bs were given to holders of master's degrees or PhDs.

(Data source available at http://www.uscis.gov/graphics/aboutus/repsstudies/h1b/index.htm , which must be accessed through http://www.uscis.gov/graphics/aboutus/repsstudies/index.htm )--Ray921 17:33, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

• I wasn't cherry-picking the results above, but the results for FY2003 show the government has drastically reduced the number of H1Bs issued to new applicants not stating their educational attainment to less than 0.1% (down from 8.5% in FY2000). For those of known educational attainment, 2.2% stated less than a bachelor's degree. At least the bureacracy is now making a better effort to see that the boxes are filled in on their forms before issuing the visas. --Ray921 18:10, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Hundreds of H-1B visas go to people without the equivalent of a US high school diploma, and thousands to those without the equivalent of a US bachelor's degree.

new H-1B visas by degree

year	noHSdiploma	HS	<1yearcollege
2000	554	288	158
2001	247	895	284
2002	169	806	189
2003	148	822	122
2004	123	690	137
2005	107	440	77

year	1+yearscollege	associate	total<bachelor
2000	1290	696	4290
2001	1376	1181	4803
2002	849	642	4015
2003	623	534	3718
2004	421	432	3375
2005	5358	363	2987

source: USCIS annual report "Characteristics of Specialty Occupation Workers (H-1B)" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.44.20.55 (talk) 22:09, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

POV Assertions in "Taxation Status of H-1B Workers"

"H-1B workers are also not eligible to any Social Security or Medicare unless they retire in the US, which by the very definition of the temporary nature of the visa, is unlikely.[3]"

Those unfamiliar with this subject would think the cited POV sentence quite reasonable, perhaps supported by the fact that H-1B is classified as a "Non-Immigrant Visa."

The above-cited statement is at best a questionable POV and should be deleted. This article has somehow omitted mention of one of the great attractions of the H-1B visa -- the fact that the H-1B may legally be used as a steppingstone to US permanent residency ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Permanent_Resident_Card ) under the doctrine of dual intent. Therefore in view of my personal observation and in the absence of statistical evidence that few H-1B visa holders convert to permanent resident status, this statement is very dubious. Can anyone provide government data on the frequency of conversion of H-1B visa holders to permanent resident status? --Ray921 10:56, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

The section "Taxation status of H-1B workers" reads:

"H-1B workers are legally required to pay the same taxes as any other US resident, including Social Security and Medicare.[2] Any person who spends more than 183 days in the US in a calendar year is a tax resident and is required to pay US taxes on their worldwide income. From the IRS perspective, it doesn't matter if that income is paid in the US or elsewhere. If an H-1B worker is given a living allowance, it is treated the same by the IRS as any other US resident. In some cases, H-1B workers pay higher taxes than a US citizen because they are not entitled to certain deductions (eg. head of household deduction amongst many others). H-1B workers are also not eligible to any Social Security or Medicare unless they retire in the US, which by the very definition of the temporary nature of the visa, is unlikely.[3]"

• The preceding paragraph is as convincing as saying that America has no illegal immigrants since all who enter the country must do so with government permission. Side agreements, kickbacks, deposit of funds beyond a basic living allowance into foreign bank accounts, whose records are unavailable to the IRS, make it difficult or impossible for the IRS to audit.
• Can the wife of an H-1B worker claim the head of household deduction?
• Do H-1B workers really face the same risk for income tax evasion if they intend to leave the US less than seven years (the period over which the IRS can audit returns) after their filing date?
• Anyway, I suggest a more objective reduction of the entire paragraph, something like this:

"Any person who spends more than 183 days in the US in a calendar year is considered a resident for tax purposes and by law must pay US income tax on his worldwide income (including living allowance) for that year in addition to Social Security and Medicare."

Does that seem NPOV? --Ray921 01:40, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

-=-=-= IMHO, this is one of the sections that should go or seriously be re-edited. It is obviously an advocacy piece that sound like it was written by an H-1B holder. In addition, it is not correct even beyond the reasons given above. Some countries have reciprocity treaties with the U.S. that allow their H-1B holders to get their SS payments. India is not one of those countries.

This is not an area of my expertise so I have not taken on the effort myself. Nor do I want to impose my personal bias by blowing the whole thing away (which would be reasonable considering it's accuracy and tenuous relationship with the topic at hand. --Bigjimslade 18:22, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Indian H-1B workers do get their Social Security payments back:

http://www.indianexpress.com/story/332763.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.25.173.71 (talk) 17:12, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Corrections

I just made a number of factual corrections to this article. I do not believe that any of these changes alter the tone/bias level but IMHO the numbers should be correct.

1. I have have spelled out the actual quota as 65,000 + 20,000 + unlimited 2. The first increase occurred in 1998 as more precision than late 90's 3. The increase was to 115,000 rather than 130,000 [Here I also took the liberty of removing some some commentary on these increases that was opinion rather than fact.] 4. I put down the actual increase contained as part of the "comprehensive immigration reform" and SKIL bill.

This article needs a bit of serious editing as it is starting to get repetitive.

2007 cap in one day

to be short just link

Top Ten US Technology Companies Receiving H1-B's???

What happened to Cognizant Technologies? I believe it is an US company.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.173.142.162 (talk • contribs)

H-1B artice biased?

There is a lot of text criticizing the H1-B program. I feel an encyclopedia should only report the facts and not subjective preferences.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.210.254.155 (talk • contribs)

contradictory claims in outsourcing section

The section on Indian outsourcing stated "Technically, an H1-B visa is an immigration visa. However, in defense to the critics the Indian industry has made clear that H1-B is not an immigration visa and the practice of using the visa to facilitate transferring of work from the US to lower paid workers in Indian is perfectly acceptable. 'The Indian IT industry and NASSCOM ...urge that work permits and intra-company transfers should not be intermingled and confused with immigration.'"

In fact, H1B visas are non-immigrant visas. Both the Wikipedia article and the US government [[2]] say so. Far from being an indication of some nefarious plan, the Indian IT quote simply states existing US visa policy.

Since the section was factually incorrect, contradicted the rest of the H1B article, and gave a quote that didn't contribute anything to the discussion, I just removed it.

Video

• Defrauding Americans to secure green cards: A video presentation by an HR Law Consultant Firm on how to Defraud the US government and make it appear as if there is a shortage of qualified US candidates to fill a job position.

This link has been inserted several times. I don't believe it qualifies as a reliable source. We don't know who compiled it. We don't know who the people talking are, or what the subject is. I'm sure there is visa abuse, but it'd be best if we stuck with reliable sources instead of anonymous Youtube videos. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 19:01, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

I found a reliable source (Information Week) that has an article about this topic, so I've inserted that link instead. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 19:44, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

These links were removed because the video is about "Green card process". Although the employees who apply for green card are on H1B visa, they are not talking about abusing the H1B visa in this video.

Neutrality disputed

The sentence: "Fortunately, the H-1B visa is not the only means for U.S. employers to lawfully hire skilled foreign nationals" reflects the pro H1-B stance of parts of this article. The author should just assert the fact that there are other means. I view that as "unfortunate". I suggest the word "fortunately" be replaced. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.126.178.197 (talk) 22:38, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Soapboxing removed

I have removed some soapboxing about the high percentage of foreigners in science and engineering PhD programs being a disincentive to Americans studying those subjects. That isn't what the reference says, not at all. The OSEP (p. 25) puts the blame squarely on faulty policies and serious deficiencies in the U.S. educational and value systems. (And I find it surprising that in US high schools they usually manage to teach the kids all 26 letters.) 71.255.154.111 00:18, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Large change to intro

This change [3] made a lot of changes to referenced data, but shortens the intro. It should be examined by people who more closely follow the article. SchmuckyTheCat (talk)

I'm concerned too. The old version had about eight sources, while the new version has none. A number of issues covered in the old version appear to be omitted from the new version. OTOH, that was a marathon-length intro, and the body of the article appears to cover most of the ground. This topic tends to get involvement from either immigration law firms or those opposed to the visa. Soe neutral, yet informed, editors would be very helpful. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 18:16, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Merge H-1B article to here

I think H1b crisis needs to be merged into this article. My reasoning is as follows:

• It doesn't deserve its own article since there's not enough info to justify one.
• It's hyperbolic: the scant references provided to back up the article do not describe what happened as any kind of "crisis". It's newsworthy and worth mentioning on Wikipedia, sure, but the article overstates the severity of what appears to be little more than a story covering the fact that the H-1B quota is not able to meet the demand for visas, and that "something needs to be done".

-- Hux (talk) 21:55, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

I agree. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 00:18, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Oppose merger. Each is a significant topic and merits own article. Tynetrekker (talk) 15:04, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

I disagree and have explained why in this edit. -- Hux (talk) 19:29, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

i concur with Hux. The main article is the visa, examples of specific cases and historical information fit well when the main article is properly structured. however, as this is really a "current news topic" with information changing "rapidly" this may need to wait until "the crisis" is over and a summary of the historical example can be made. Iggynelix (talk) 17:38, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Agree with Hux. Quacks Like a Duck (talk) 21:22, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Lead is too long?

I think the lead is not very long now. What do you think? Kushal 01:07, 23 March 2008 (UTC)