Talk:2008 Summer Olympics opening ceremony

Order of countries entering stadium

Is the order of countries entering published anywhere? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.207.242.57 (talk) 07:42, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Theoretically, someone with a very comprehensive Chinese dictionary and knowledge of Chinese should be able to figure it out. You only have to look up participating members and place them in the order it will appear in that dictionary. But we have no idea if the organizer would be going with the full name or commonly used name. I don't think Chinese themselves have done this in any world event they hosted, so it's going to be wait and see. For security reason, I doubt it will be available before the actual opening ceremony unless some media leaks it.--Revth (talk) 08:43, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure that stroke order is nothing new, and is one of the ways Chinese words are sorted. The only issue for laymen interested in it is whether they use full name or short name. 118.90.92.107 (talk) 10:32, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

User:Petermgiles works for some Canadian thing, so he has the official order. Ask him. Smartyllama (talk) 14:47, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

The order is also now on the 2008 Summer Olympics national flag bearers, although Iraq isn't listed. (I'll try and figure out where they'll be, though.) DitzyNizzy (aka Jess) (talk) 19:04, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Or, on second thoughts, someone else will have to figure out where Iraq goes - I can't see Chinese characters on my laptop. :( DitzyNizzy (aka Jess) (talk) 19:06, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

You might need to read this. I believe some free fonts for Chinese text are linked at the bottom. Xeltran (talk) 12:32, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Iraq entered right before Iran, if I remember correctly. CFLeon (talk) 04:27, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Disgraceful and Insulting CCP Propaganda

A troupe of over a hundred Indigenous Taiwanese dancers travelling from Taiwan, and referred to by Xinhua as "ethnic Taiwanese compatriots", will also perform at the opening ceremony.

This is yet another disgraceful attempt by the CCP to portray native Taiwanese culture as though it were part of Chinese culture. Fortunately, there is no need to delete this paragraph; all we need to do to make the paragraph neutral is to add an explanation for the CCP's motives behind this despicable hijacking of Taiwanese culture (with references to reliable sources of course). David873 (talk) 09:54, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

I have just amended the paragraph in order to include a note about Mainland China-Taiwan relations. What we now need is a reliable source to back it up; some elaboration would also be useful. Of course, the alternative is to get rid of the whole paragraph altogether but this would be an act of censorship. David873 (talk) 10:04, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

You may be intrigued to be informed that CCTV productions routinely refers to all Chinese, including even the overseas Chinese all over the world as compatriots aka "tong bao", so by what you are insinuating, they would be attempting to extend their territorial claim to practically all corners of the globe?--Huaiwei (talk) 19:04, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

No, that was not what I originally said. The point that I have made is that no one in their right mind would regard the indigenous culture of Taiwan as being part of Chinese culture. Of course, the CCP has no interest in portraying indigenous Taiwanese culture as being separate from Chinese culture. On the other hand, whether mainstream Taiwanese culture is part of Chinese culture is another story (though I have to add that many Taiwanese do not seem to think so). So I am afraid the fact that you removed the statement about cross-strait relations may say something about your views that many Taiwanese would certainly disagree with. David873 (talk) 00:01, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

I see absolutely no logic that a Taiwanese group performing in the game's opening ceremony would in any way suggest that Taiwanese culture is part of Chinese culture. Even if that is true, kindly quantify "no one", for clearly there are practically 20% of the world's population who thinks so, plus millions of others all around the world who identifies with Chinese culture yet do not identify with the PRC as their "motherland".--Huaiwei (talk) 13:15, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

In any case, the fact that there will be Taiwanese Aborigines performing at the opening ceremony leads to a question that just cannot be ignored: "Why is this going to happen anyway and what does this have to do with the Olympic Games?" Please do not tell me that Taiwan is part of China or that there are two Chinas with Taiwan being one of them. Most sensible people accept that there is one China and one Taiwan (the later not being part of China in any way). David873 (talk) 09:43, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

I didn't realise that traditional dances performing in a foreign country signifies that the country in which those dancers hail from automatically becomes part of the country where they perform? So when Malay Aborigines perform in Thailand, Malaysia is interpreted to be a part of Thailand? I hope there is a greater dose of simple logic here. You are attempting to insert your POV in supposed sensitivity when none are suggested in any way. Taiwanese Aborigines are free to perform anywhere they wish, and have complete freedom to decline to perform for any reason.--Huaiwei (talk) 03:20, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Of course, there is no rule or law saying that Taiwanese Aborigines (or indeed members of any other ethnic group) from performing wherever they wish at international events such as the Olympics. This fact, though, does not address the fundamental questions that I had asked before. Isn't it blatantly obvious that the CCP will only "use" the indigenous Taiwanese performance in order to advance their sickening claims that Taiwan is part of China? After all, New Zealand performers didn't turn up at the 2000 Summer Olympics in Australia in order to "showcase" their culture! Why does the 2008 Olympic Games have to be different in this regard? Perhaps someone out there (other than Huaiwei) actually knows the answer. David873 (talk) 10:12, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for admitting that your edit in this said article is based purely on your own speculative assumptions, and one that is heavily politically influenced to boot. As long as there is zero adherence to any of the three basic policies of WP:NPOV, WP:V or WP:OR, there is simply nothing to negotiate here for its inclusion.--Huaiwei (talk) 10:25, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Funny you should say this, seeing that you are clearly biased about China-Taiwan relations. Here is the evidence.

...there are practically 20% of the world's population who thinks so, plus millions of others all around the world who identifies with Chinese culture yet do not identify with the PRC as their "motherland".

There you go. This is what you wrote earlier, which gave your opinions about Taiwan and its culture away. I am sure many editors of Taiwanese background will at best dismiss your comments as a bad case of cultural cringe; at worst, they will be treated as highly insulting. Any other editor who has an opinion on this should comment too as this is starting to get ridiculous. David873 (talk) 11:05, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

I would certainly love to hear from you just how you would intrepret the comment I made above, how that is supposed to a reflection of my personal views on Taiwanese culture, and whether my personal view has allowed itself to encroach into this debate.--Huaiwei (talk) 15:56, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Huaiwei has a point, though. I identify as Chinese, but in no way is the PRC my motherland, because when someone asks me where my parents come from, I usually say "Hong Kong" and not "China". But I definitely identify myself as a Chinese. Pandacomics (talk) 03:42, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Source needed for timing of Opening Ceremony

A source is needed for the statement about when the opening ceremony begins. The previous "source" cited was not a valid source and has been deleted. David873 (talk) 00:56, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

 Done I don't think anyone will have a problem with linking to the BBC schedule (after all, they *are* showing the Olympics in the United Kingdom. DitzyNizzy (aka Jess) (talk) 10:42, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Is there another source available? Some editors seem to keep changing "8:08:08" to "8:00:00", which is starting to get very annoying. David873 (talk) 12:53, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Actually, Tingo (see below) is correct - This webpage, which was posted in 2006, says that the Mayor of Beijing confirmed its start time as 8pm. DitzyNizzy (aka Jess) (talk) 14:36, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

I want to have you attention that the "08:08:08" in the source article (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/olympics/7498629.stm) does not mean 8:08:08pm but actually 8pm on Aug. 8th. So the correct time is 8pm. --Tingo (talk) 13:00, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Someone just changed it back again to 8:08 pm. I am wondering which one is correct. Apparently, there was an announcement on Australian television that the opening ceremony will in fact start at eight minutes past the hour. David873 (talk) 12:28, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Here is a Q&A from the official site[1], it says:"我们都知奥运在08年8月8日开幕,但我却不知8日开幕准确的时间,官方网上也没有明显的说明公布..而流传在网上的信息有人说是早上8:00,有人又说是晚上8点,更有人说是8时8分8秒。麻烦告诉我准确无误的时间。谢谢!回复：8月8日晚上8点。"(Q: We all know that the games begin on Aug 8th, 2008, but I don't know the exact time of it while it is not mentioned clearly in your website. Somebody said that the time is 8 am, some 8 pm, some even said the time is 8:08:08 pm. Please tell me the correct time. Thanks. A: 8 pm on Aug 8th.)--阿pp (talk) 11:50, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

btw. I am Tingo, this is another id of mine.--阿pp (talk) 11:51, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Even if the 8:08pm or 8:08:08pm time is incorrect, it may be widespread enough to mention ("...will start at 8pm, not 8:08pm as some sources reported"). Even the official website has some pages mentioning 8:08 [2] [3] [4], though they are from agencies so the site's disclaimer would presumably apply. Its most recent report says 8pm [5]. In any case, we'll soon know the correct answer for sure. jnestorius^(talk) 15:57, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

It's happened now, and at 8:08. Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/olympics/7547074.stm —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.110.105.30 (talk) 17:02, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Hi. What?! I have changed it back to 8:00. ALL three citations used in the article confirm an opening time of 8:00 pm. Thanks. ~AH1^(TCU) 17:29, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Look, even the source you provided states "8pm", not "8:08 pm". Please stop. ~AH1^(TCU) 17:32, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

It did not start at 8 CST, it started at 8 ET correct? --12.208.151.119 (talk) 00:42, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

It starts at 8 CST, there are timezones outside USA you know. F (talk) 12:48, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Hi. It started at 8pm CST, 8am EDT, and 12pm (noon) UTC. Thanks. ~AH1^(TCU) 16:08, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Change of the marching order

According to a news report by a Korean newspaper (this is via a Japanese source) [6], North Korea protested marching right after South Korea and now four nations will march between them instead. I don't know if it's actually going to happen, so this will be included when the list is released or when the march actually starts.--Revth (talk) 04:23, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Beginning time by Greenwich

Why don't to write the time of ceremony beginning by the Greenwich time? I asked just, and I'll answer why. I was wonder to find in newspaper's TV shedule that it begins at 13:08, not at nearly noon by Greenwich (as for me, I'm actually in Moscow, but it only need to add 3 hours every day of year - so no differense about what time I speak). I thought so 'cause accordingly article difference between Beijing and Greenwich is 8 hours (UTC +8), but there is no word about absence the summer time in China, so real difference (for August) is 7 hours. Thus, it begins really at 13:08. Dendr (talk) 07:18, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Beijing is using UTC/GMT +8 hours with no daylight saving time in 2008. [7]. --Xagent86 (Talk | contribs) 09:33, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

(UTC)

Korea

QUOTE: "South Korea (韩国) will immediately followed North Korea (朝鲜) because the character 韩 in the name of South Korea has the same stroke count with the character 朝 in North Korea."

So there's no united team this time? -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs 13:13, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

There was not a united team last time, but they marched together as one in the opening ceremony. This time they are not. jnestorius^(talk) 13:35, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Watching right now - Notice how when NKorea arrives, the crowd cheers so loud. -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs 14:54, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Boycott sectio need updating

Now that the ceremony is done and over with, there will not be any more need for speculation. Such information should be edited out. Also, there really is no point writing who attended the ceremony in the boycott section, that's counter-productive; same with those countries that simply didn't go and didn't boycott. I'll be doing so in the next few days if no one else does or objects. 24.222.53.34 (talk) 17:45, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Dignitaries

It would be a good idea to alphabetize the countries in the heads of states/dignitaries section. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.71.44.226 (talk) 18:49, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Is it really necessary to list dignitaries not attending? It is pretty easy to figure this out from looking at the list who attended and is thus redundant. Also, not every head of state in the world was expected for the ceremony. If there is no objection I will remove it.

The purpose of those not attending shows those that took the cause of the people of Tibet to heart and boycotted the ceremony and those who by chance werent able to make it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.99.91.46 (talk) 04:56, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Japanese royalty

On the dignitaries section, the names of the Japanese royalty who attended should be added. The commentary said who they were but I can't remember their names now... :) - WikiJohnDoe

Chinese Taipei

Should it be Chinese Taipei or ROC/Taiwan? I know there's an issue with them being at the Olympics as Taiwan, but are we using the name that they are going by there, or the name that the international community knows them as? --Seascic ^T/_C 19:39, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

It should be left the way it is. The agreement that was reached between China and Taiwan was that the latter should be represented as Zhonghua Taibei; Zhonghua does not imply a connection with either polity but refers to the Chinese identity as a whole. This distinction is not made in English, however, so the term is left intentionally ambiguous. --Taoster (talk) 22:16, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Iraq ovation

Would a quick mention that a clear ovation for Iraq was heard during the ceremony be good? People cheered loudly at the team (of course not as much as China!), it seems notable enough. (76.69.181.34 (talk) 19:51, 8 August 2008 (UTC))

There were several loud ovations including for the US and Chinese Taipei/Taiwan. We can't mention any of them as it would be a clear cut case of OR Nil Einne (talk) 20:43, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

More heads of state and dignitaries

[8] [9] [10] [11] [12] Could someone update the list? Thanks! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.71.44.226 (talk) 22:00, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Ok added heads of state of above source. If someone would like to add the spouses of the heads of state, go for it! 76.71.44.226 (talk) 01:01, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Could someone change the head of state of Germany? Gerhad Schroeder hasn't been the chancellor since 2005.

It's quite unlikely that he attended the ceremony, however I did not watch it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.50.234.254 (talk) 01:23, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Need more images

I have found one image from Commons, but we need a Commons category for this and we need to get more images, e.g. from Flickr perhaps, even if we have to ask people to change the license. Richard001 (talk) 03:37, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

List of heads of states

For the List of heads of states and dignitaries, should we place notable heads of state in bold, such as George W Bush, Vladimir Putin, Nicolas Sarkozy, etc? -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs 06:38, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

In a word, no. Almost by definition all heads of state are noteable hence we only have one red link (and even that it is likely he's noteable simply we don't have an article yet). Going further and deciding which head of states are most noteable is simply a bad idea and liable to lead to pointless edit wars. If editors are interested in knowing whether a certain head of state attended, they can easily look for that specific country Nil Einne (talk) 07:24, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

I just want to mention that Gerhard Schröder has not been a part of the German government since 2005. I have not seen this event, so I don't know if Angela Merkel was there or not. 17:54, 10 August 2008 (CET)

Yes, I know that but he was a dignitary at the opening ceremony. Merkel did not attend. Nirvana888 (talk) 16:10, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

numbering of drummers, in series of events

QUOTE: "After greeting the audience, Hu Jintao and Jacques Rogge, 2008 Fou drummers staged a synchronized presentation." Would it be better to write "2,008" rather than "2008" (as it was before), so the number of drummers is not confused with the year 2008, as I personally would be? Standard notation when counting a number in English is to place a comma for every thousand of digit value. -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs 06:42, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Additionally, didn't the singing of Sing a Song of Praise to the Motherland occur before the singing of March of the Volunteers? -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs 11:56, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Original Music

Who wrote the original music soundtrack for the ceremony? It obviously is a fantastic feat to have composed so much music. Whoever it is deserves credit in this article.68.77.29.11 (talk) 18:00, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Tan Dun is the man, and his name is already in the lead. Pandacomics (talk) 03:45, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

29 Footprint Fireworks, CGI?

Can I get someone to verify that they are computer generated? It doesn't make sense to me that they would be. AzNwiLD0 (talk) 05:02, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Apparently the TV show was CGI because they felt that having a helicopter filming the real display would be too dangerous.[13] Seems worth mentioning in the article. 76.197.56.242 (talk) 06:50, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Greek Head of States

Greek Minister Mrs Bakoyannis and Mr Liapis represented greece in the opening ceremony, ex-king constantine was in the opening ceremony because he is a honorary member of the ioc —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mdkats (talk • contribs) 01:09, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Hi, do you have a source for this claim? As long as they represented Greece they should be considered dignitaries. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.65.23.67 (talk) 01:42, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

yes i do [14] [15] —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mdkats (talk • contribs) 10:49, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Blu-ray release?

Seems to me like such a ceremony would be worthy of a blu-ray/HDDVD/DVD release, perhaps even an iMax experience. 1080i sources are available, to boot. Is there any indication that such a release could occur? --92.104.153.110 (talk) 01:51, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

PLA Involvement - Possible Comment?

Given the fact that, at least with the company I keep, the primary topic of conversation for pertaining to the opening was the active involvement of the PLA in the opening ceremony, I think there ought to be at least a minor comment. This seems to be to be the main topic of criticism for an otherwise stellar Opening Ceremony, summarized by the Sydney Morning Herald, which stated:

"The heavy presence of Chinese Liberation Army officers throughout the proceedings left many wondering exactly what image the hosts were intending to project to the international community...At a time when Tibet, Darfur and China's broader human rights record are proving delicate issues for Beijing organisers, the move to present thousands of drilled, sobersided army officers before a worldwide viewing audience of four billion was surprising for its brazenness; a none too subtle projection of strength."

Source: http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/reuters/olympics_reaction__tv__pix

Regardless of whether or not we believe this to be a justified or unjustified criticism, the fact is that the criticism is mentioned in reliable news sources (Reuters) as a reaction to a major part of the opening of the Games. As a sidenote, I should like to point out a quote from the Daily Telegraph:

"One Olympic ideal -- the separation of sport and politics -- died in the Chinese night. (...) This was the choreographed demonstration of might the like of which the Olympics has never seen; a rebuke to George W. Bush and Nicolas Sarkozy, vocal critics of Chinese foreign and domestic policy sitting in the audience."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080809/wl_uk_afp/oly2008ceremonybritain

Given the sources of these as a legitimate reaction to the Opening Ceremony, I've placed them in the article with the aforementioned citations under the "Reactions" heading. 69.142.30.188 (talk) 03:49, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Already done.--Huaiwei (talk) 04:16, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

My mistake, didn't see it. I'll remove my edit. 69.142.30.188 (talk) 04:33, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Grammar

Could someone please clarify this text: "who actually do not familiar with Chinese culture and people". It is in the Reception section. --Repaxan 07:25, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Be bold.--Huaiwei (talk) 07:54, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

fake footprint

According to news the footprint seen at the TV (in the middle of life show) was computer generated and not life. I think this information should be add. in footprint part or in a new controversy chapter? Source: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/olympics/2534499/Beijing-Olympic-2008-opening-ceremony-giant-firework-footprints-faked.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by Killy-the-frog (talk • contribs) 11:49, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I found another news article on the faked footprints that apparently took a year to create digitally: http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Beijing-Olympics-Opening-Ceremony-Faked-Firework-Footprints-Added-For-TV/Article/200808215075291?lpos=World%2BNews_2&lid=ARTICLE_15075291_Beijing%2BOlympics%2BOpening%2BCeremony%2BFaked%253A%2BFirework%2BFootprints%2BAdded%2BFor%2BTV --Yvesnimmo (talk) 14:23, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Are they "fake" or actually pre-recorded, as other sources allude to? I do understand computers were used to introduce the fogging and shaking effects thou.--Huaiwei (talk) 14:44, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Some Opening Ceremony fireworks were faked

Ok, got this info from [16]. Although I can't really find the link to the news article that claimed so but this should be included in the article, right? After verifying the info, of course. Xeltran (talk) 11:53, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

^^ Ooh, thanks, the link has already been posted on the previous section. Xeltran (talk) 11:57, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Over 4 Billion viewers?

I'm baffled at how there were over 4 billion viewers when china was at 63-69% and 4 billion is about 60% of the entire world. The US had about 11% and other nations listed are at ~10%, 4 billion definately can't be right. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.119.159.180 (talk) 15:15, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

It is a rough estimate and is properly cited and therefore is legitimate. What is certain is that it was the most viewed ceremony in the history of the Games.

I agree, i was actually thinking this the other day. how could 4 billion people have watched the opening ceremony live. When you consider all the people across the world who were A)sleeping B)at work C)busy walking around cities and stuff D) people who dont have a tv or just dont care. Like 4 billion people is 4 in 7 people. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Simaloko (talk • contribs) 18:28, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

4 billion sounds very suspect to me too, I'm having trouble finding viewing figures for individual countries but this site quotes a surprisingly low figure for India, http://www.business-standard.com/india/storypage.php?autono=331135. If that 6 million figure is correct (which I doubt) then between the countries I've seen figures for (Australia, China, France, Germany, India, UK & USA) about 1 billion watched. Those countries make up about half the world population so I can't really believe the other 3.6 billion from around the world all watched it. 217.43.97.130 (talk) 19:13, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

We are not here to engage in OR and must trust the estimate. Also, a factor that has not been mentioned is that the total viewership includes mediums such as Internet which also garnered a significant audience. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.24.143.65 (talk) 19:52, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

There is no obligation to believe everything you read in the newspapers. The 4 billion figure originates from 2005 in the Beijing Youth Daily, not a paragon of journalist reliability, and is the aggregate for the entire 19 days, not just the opening ceremony. Most of these global TV audience estimates for major events are plucked out of the air. A lot of them hover conveniently around the one billion mark (Oscars, etc) based on zero statistics. The Olympics has some fairly reliable ratings at national level, but we will never have a definitive source to cite with any confidence for adding them all together. jnestorius^(talk) 21:05, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Reception Section

The following statement is a bit inaccurate/misleading: "The Globe and Mail had the headline 'The iron hand behind the magic show.' This was supposed to be an example of a hostile report, but I believe it is not representative of tone of the paper's report on this event. The title refers to an opinion column in the Globe and Mail, and is the columnist's opinion, not a news headline. I think the sentence should be deleted. Hammerofdawn (talk) 21:57, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

• Agree. --59.149.32.77 (talk) 22:16, 11 August 2008 (UTC)