Talk:Alice's Restaurant

Geographic Information

I happened to be having Thanksgiving in Stockbridge so was curious to try to reproduce the garbage tour. The church, now the Guthrie Center, was easy to find, but the dump was not. The Guthrie Center outlines the route here: [1]. I asked someone at the desk of the local Red Lion Inn and was told that the dump had since moved but that the original dump was located at roughly 42.283294°N 73.334620°W / 42.283294; -73.334620, which more-or-less matches the description given by the Guthrie Center, although there is no sign of a dump at the moment. The Police Officers' Station is still located at 42.283159°N 73.319246°W / 42.283159; -73.319246 (on the west end of Main St.).

The restaurant itself is apparently now under the name Theresa's Stockbridge Cafe and located at 40 Main St., Stockbridge, MA. Does anyone have any more information on these locations? —BenFrantzDale 00:12, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Guthrie Center

I have a question... I seem to recall reading awhile ago that the sign above the hallway entrance read "Bring Your Own God", and I have always attributed that quote as such. Has the sign changed, or is this quote is atributed to something else. If so, what or who? - Nero Kalem 15:02, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Huntingtons Disease

Just removed a reference to Arlo being a carrier of Huntingtons. This is not possible as it is a dominant disease. If you have one copy of the mutation you will become ill.

Reason for deleting wikidate overlinkage

It's per Wikipedia style guidelines. This from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style_%28dates_and_numbers%29#Avoid_overlinking_dates

Avoid overlinking dates

If the date does not contain a day and a month, date preferences will not work, and square brackets will not respond to your readers' auto-formatting preferences. So unless there is a special relevance of the date link, there is no need to link it. This is an important point: simple months, years, decades and centuries should only be linked if there is a strong reason for doing so. Make only links relevant to the context for the reasons that it's usually undesirable to insert low-value chronological links.

Usage of links for date preferences

• year only. So 1974 → 1974. Generally, do not link unless they will clearly help the reader to understand the topic.
  
• month only. So April → April. Generally, do not link
  
• century. So 20th century → 20th century. Generally, do not link
  
• decade. So 1970s → 1970s. Generally, do not link (Including an apostrophe [1970's] is incorrect)
  
• year and month. So April 1974 → April 1974 Generally, do not link
  
• new year and month. So April 2000 → April 2000 Generally, do not link unless they will clearly help the reader to understand the topic. Presently, articles only exist for combinations from the year 2000 to current
  
• day of the week (with or without other date elements). So Tuesday → Tuesday. Generally, do not link.--Tenebrae 04:16, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Move?

As the article plainly states, the name of the song is technically "Alice's Restaurant Massacree." Should the article be moved there? Wencer 16:58, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

No, the naming conventions guidelines say that articles should be at their most common name. Putting the full name in the article is not a problem, but putting an article at an uncommon name is. --Dhartung | Talk 20:34, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

The album is called Alice's Restaurant, though. By incorrectly titling this song, we're forcing the article on the album to use a different title. Since the album was the first thing to use the title, its article should be titled Alice's Restaurant and the song's Alice's Restaurant Massacree.

70.69.239.103 06:37, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

First of all, I doubt that you have any actual evidence that "Alice's Restaurant" is more commonly used than "Alice's Restaurant Massacree." Secondly, the naming conventions also state that exceptions may be made for "enhanced precision, cleaner disambiguation and/or solution of naming conflicts." Since "Alice's Restaurant" is also the title of the album and the movie, I believe that using the correct name for the song would fit that criteria. 134.197.110.165 02:20, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

While I have no sources, I'm sure "Alice's Restaurant" is by far the more common phrasing. Still, if "Massacree" is in official title on the album, then it should be included in the page name. Plus, it's fitting for this oddball long song to have a corresponding title. —Ben FrantzDale 04:38, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Spoofs?

Is Weird Al's "Mr. Frump in the Iron Lung" really a parody, or doesn't it just use the same tune and nothing more? I recall a short-lived Kodak product, the "Kodak Disc," using the same tune as well for that matter. Шизомби 12:32, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

I've listened to Weird Al for years, and when I ran across that statement in this article, I couldn't even figure out why it would be a parody. I just assumed the originator knew something I didn't (shows how much I expect to find good citing, I guess). Now that I think about it, though, I can see how one might think it was a parody, though IIRC, the tunes aren't identical. Extremely close, yes. Identical, no. There's a bit in the melody in Weird Al's that are different from Guthrie's, enough that I didn't relate the two previously, I guess. The signature guitar part from Alice's Restaurant is also missing, I believe (it's been a while since I heard the Weird Al track, though). I'm removing the disputed line for now. The "other performers" bit attached to it probably isn't notable enough to incorporate into the main article (songs are parodied by various performers all the time), but if someone wants to find a place for it, that's fine. --Fru1tbat 20:06, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Spanq, an early internet radio comediy show, did a parody known as Alice's Rest Stop Listen to It (link Requires RealPlayer) 64.33.177.56 19:19, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Fine

It's not really clear whether they were find $50 each, or $50 total, so I'm removing each. Superm401 - Talk 00:20, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

In The song, he claims that they were both fined $25, so I will put that back in as 25 dollars each. - User:zim64

Legal to Play

Removed a paragraph "This Thanksgiving Day tradition is honored on the web by special permission on this one day of the year. Users may listen to the original release of Alice's Restaurant, only on Thanksgiving Day each year."

Because someone keeps removing the link to where the special permission is allowed... thus making it appear as if ANYONE may stream the audio legally on this one day. They may not, and of course do stream it anyway, but this gives credence to those whom do not have said permission. Anyway, if the link can't stay, then neither should this reference, becasue it now sends the wrong message.

After securing the special permission, I was hoping to share this on Wikipedia, but I'm afraid someone thinks it is an ad attempt or spam. Anyway, I wish to withdraw the paragraph, if the link is not allowed. http://chat-rock.com/

Thanks.

- Tony Turner 19:12, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Massacree?

Is the extra "e" intentional and accurate? LordAmeth 20:10, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes. http://www.amazon.com/Alices-Restaurant-Massacree-Revisited-Anniversary/dp/B0000030N3/ref=pd_sim_m_3/103-6602331-6954232

You seem to know what "massacree" means. I have been unable to find out. It's such a unique word that perhaps some explanation could be added to the article. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.82.163.175 (talk) 17:21, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

"Massacree" is a US regional colloquialism of "massacre." It is an Anglicization of the French word massacrée, the past participle of massacre, "to slaughter." TechBear (talk) 21:31, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Alice's Restaurant.jpg

Image:Alice's Restaurant.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 07:01, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Requested move

Alice's Restaurant → Alice's Restaurant Massacree — The song's actual name is "Alice's Restaurant Massacree", and while it is frequently called "Alice's Restaurant", that isn't the actual name of the song. And in any case, Alice's Restaurant ought to target Alice's Restaurant (album). — —/Mendaliv/^2¢/_Δ's/ 09:18, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.

• Oppose - no evidence anywhere that the song is called "Alice's restaurant massacre", even when spelled correctly. See reference 1, on Arlo Guthrie site, and the external links: http://worldmusiccentral.org/artists/artist_page.php?id=885 refers to it as "the title song" of the album. PamD (talk) 21:18, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

• Oppose - the song is overwhelmingly known by its common title Alice's Restaurant. Even enthusiasts of Arlo's music (I'm one) use the full title only for effect. And it's a clear primary meaning, many who know the song are only dimly aware of the album and film. Andrewa (talk) 23:46, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

• Support - the current title can be a dab page. 70.55.203.112 (talk) 04:39, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Discussion

Any additional comments:

• Comment It's worth remembering that Wikipedia's guidelines support the use of common names in article titling, even when such names aren't entirely accurate. On the other hand, the existence of Alice's Restaurant (album) and Alice's Restaurant (film) complicate things somewhat. I suspect that the current naming reflects a judgment that the song is the primary topic for the phrase "Alice's Restaurant", and indeed I suspect that it is. As such, I'm inclined to oppose the move, but I'm willing to listen to arguments to the contrary. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 09:34, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

There are exceptions to this rule. Wikipedia:naming conventions#Album and song titles and band names (in common with other conventions I looked at regarding artistic works generally) seems to just assume that the official name and the common name are the same, which is often the case except with very famous songs. Andrewa (talk) 23:56, 29 September 2008 (UTC)