Talk:Capetian dynasty

Minor edit

I changed this:

Current countries under Capetian leadership:

• Juan Carlos, King of Spain (since 1975)
• Henri, Grand Duke of Luxembourg (since 2000)

To this

Current Capetian rulers:

• Juan Carlos, King of Spain (since 1975)
• Henri, Grand Duke of Luxembourg (since 2000)

As I would expect a list of countries in the first case rather than a list of people. Matthieu 11:07, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Naming

Perhaps the best titles would be Capetian dynasty, Valois dynasty, Bourbon dynasty, instead of the mixture. Or is there a better way still? --Wetman 02:23, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Proposed merge with House of Capet

I oppose the proposed merge. I think that it is worth having a separate article on the the very broadly defined House of Capet, which includes all descendants of Robert the Strong, including families that have ruled many parts of Europe other than France, including the present-day monarchs of Spain and Luxembourg. This article can and should focus instead on the narrowly defined dynasty that ruled France from 987 to 1328. It would be worth expanding this article to really cover monarchs in the dynasty and events and processes that occurred under their rule, as the article Carolingians does. Marco polo 01:55, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

I can see no difference in scholarly usage between "Capetian dynasty" and "House of Capet", so whatever you propose, I can't see why the merger should be opposed. I have created a redirect, as this page had no unique information. Srnec 06:59, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Srnec. IMHO the two are synonyms that can either be used narrowly (987-1328) or broadly (France 987-1830 and anywhere else). Both terms exclude the ancestors of Hugh Capet. Capetians can be used for the main line ending in 1328 as well as including other branches down to the Bourbons (who in turn may or may not include the Orleans line).

Two (or more) articles might be justified, one dealing with the French main line of the House and others with other branches. However, I think the predecessors of Hugh should be covered in the Capetian article here as well. A sub article on Robertians might be in order, but a broad overview should be present here. I guees that all later subbranches are from the Capetians ruling France and not from the earlier Robertians. Str1977 ^{(smile back)} 13:22, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Bourbons and Capetians

The list of Capetian kings here goes from the end of the Carolingians up to the Revolution (and beyond!). According to the House of Bourbon article, the Bourbon dynasty took over with Henry IV.

So which is it? Did the Capetians rule in unbroken succession until 1792?

I would hasten to add that this should probably be explained in the article (or perhaps the Bourbon one). It's not clear as it's currently written. I'm obviously not an expert on this subject, so I can't fix it myself. Cheers --DarthBinky 22:20, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Bourbon are a cadet line of Capet family. See my new edition Aubisse

Ok, well then what does "cadet line" mean? --DarthBinky 15:36, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

cadet line : males coming from a son who wasn't the first born.--Aubisse1:20 22 décember 2006 (Greenwich)

The article should mention that too then. I've never heard that term before. Cheers --DarthBinky 05:52, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Capet

Hugh Capet's surname is described on his article as of unknown origins. This article claims, rather strangely, that it comes from his habit of wearing a cape. Unless someone can source this, I am removing it. Michaelsanders 14:52, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Portugal

I have removed the successors to Ferdinand I of Portugal. His successor was an illegitimate son of Peter I of Portugal, and is not, therefore, Capetian. Michaelsanders 15:00, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

I am re-adding the successors of Ferdinand because illegitimacy does not remove you from a dynasty, it simply is not socially accepted. The House of Avis is a successor branch of the House of Burgundy, through an illegitimate cadet branch. And both are members of the House of Capet.
–Whaleyland ( Talk • Contributions ) 18:26, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

No. Dynasties only continue through direct legitimate male lines, unless they specifically specify otherwise (e.g. Elizabeth II, who has specified that her children are of the House of Windsor). It is an (illegitimate) offshoot of the Capetian Burgundians, but it is not Capetian itself. Michaelsanders 19:10, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Capets and Capetians

There has been a proposal to merge House of Capet with Capetians, but it seems to me useful to have separate articles on the House of Capet, which covers a wide range of dynastic lines, and on the narrowly defined Capetian dynasty that ruled France from 987 to 1328. The latter article should cover monarchs in that dynasty and events in the history of France that occurred under their rule, whereas the article "House of Capet" can be a general introduction to the broader nexus of aristocratic families sharing a descent from the early Capets. In order to avoid confusion between the Capetians of France, narrowly defined, and other members of the House of Capet, I think that it would help to reserve the term "Capetians" for the French kings and their immediate family members and to use the term "Capets" for members of the broader network of families. Do others think that this would be a good way to avoid confusion? Marco polo 01:51, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Surely it would be the other way round - 'The House of Capet' to describe the Kings of France (as opposed to 'The House of Burgundy', 'The House of Dreux'), and 'Capetian' to denote the ultimate stemming of these Houses from the Capets (thus, 'The Capetian Dukes of Burgundy' to contrast with 'The Valois Dukes of Burgundy'). The main idea sounds good, though.Michaelsanders 09:37, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Please tell me it there is a source for Robert and Eudes of Paris being maternal grandsons of Louis the Pius. And if so, what it is? Another source says "Their mother was Adelheid of Tours, an Etichone and sister-in-law of Lothar I of Lorraine -- not a Carolingian."144.160.98.31 05:31, 14 May 2007 (UTC)