Talk:American Family Association

Controversy Section

This is in response to the editor who removed the criticism template. According to WP:CRITICISM, this section should be integrated into the main body of the article. Furthermore, the criticism section should be balanced with positive and negative criticism, which is not the case in this article. Also, the criticism section is is far to large in comparison to the overall length of the article.  EJNOGARB  22:49, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

• WP:CRITICISM is an essay, but even that says "There is currently no consensus on what is best". Even disregarding that, with an article such as this one, I'd say it's actually quite difficult to avoid having such a section, because the very nature of the organisation means that criticism and controversy go hand-in-hand with what they do. Black Kite 22:54, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

I know that wp:otherstuffexists, but potentially controversial articles such as Glenn Beck and Barack Obama manage to exist without controversy sections. It's a symptom of bad writing to include such sections in any article. At the very least, the controversy section should be trimmed down to the most salient details from NPOV sources (that is, not SPLC or Equality Mississippi).  EJNOGARB  00:43, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

Is there any such thing as "positive" criticism in this context? And is there any relating to the AFA? Exploding Boy (talk) 16:12, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Footnote 64

Footnote 64 is a broken link. Surv1v4l1st ^{(Talk|Contribs)} 19:11, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Try to repair it. If the correct link cannot be found, delete it.  EJNOGARB  14:15, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Problems with Links in Criticism Section

These problems exist with the links in the criticism section:

14 Washington Times is not criticizing AFA, they’re reporting that Cyber Patrol blocked them

65 leads to homepage, not article

66 deadlink

67 “according to a recent report from the Southern Poverty Law Center,” not Southern Voice, needs to be removed as source

68 makes no reference to AFA

69 deadlink, but maybe just needs to be redirected

70 same as 69

71 CNET is not criticizing AFA, they’re reporting that Cyber Patrol blocked them

72 Edmunds doesn’t call AFA anti-gay, but ineffectual

73 Possibly a misdirect, makes no reference to AFA

74 deadlink

75 deadlink

76 deadlink

77 ACLU never says “anti-gay”

79 deadlink

80 deadlink

81 deadlink

88 all quotes (except last) are unsourced

101 unreliable source

102 makes no reference to AFA, and never says, “be more negative to Islam”

103 is AFA of PA the same as AFA of Mississippi?

Primary suggestions: (1) Remove Washington Times, Southern Voice, CNET as critics of AFA since they are only sources, not originators, of statements. Furthermore, Edmunds never calls AFA anti-gay, and should likewise be removed as a source (or changed to reflect what is actually said in article). (2) Repair the deadlinks if possible, but delete them if impossible. If a majority remains, the section should be tagged with a deadlink template. (3) There are several sources that make no reference to the AFA (links 68, 73, 102) and should be deleted.

I may have made some mistakes in the above list, and would appreciate any helpful corrections. However, I believe that each of the above links needs attention.  EJNOGARB  17:54, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

• I'm assuming in your latest edit war today, this is where you keep talking about in your edit summary when you reference "see talk page" since I see no other discussion started todayt in regards to the content you are removing? If so, we don't delete sourced content just because links are dead or have moved. We find improve them by finding new ones. Have you attempted to even do this? Find sources to replace any dead or moved ones? Additionally, "discuss BEFORE making changes" is so painfully clear. - ALLST✰R▼^echo _{wuz here @} 01:45, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

I would appreciate it if you pay closer attention to the talk page and actual edits made. I have not removed any dead links, as you said. Instead, I removed three sources because they were misrepresented in the article. The article text formerly stated that Southern Voice, CNET, and Edmunds stated that AFA was anti-gay, but this is not true; they all reported that either Cyber Patrol or SPLC said that AFA was anti-gay. They may be used as citations, but it is unfair to say that they accused AFA of being anti-gay as they themselves merely reported an event. The only one not using the talk page and engaging in edit wars is you. The source problems above have been on the talk page for a whole week.  EJNOGARB  01:54, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Note: I shouldn't have only labeled the source problems by their citation numbers, since now they are listed out of order. Today I'm affixing dead link tags to bad sources.  EJNOGARB  21:03, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Homophobia category, revisited

Hi. I understand that there was a past dispute here about whether it was appropriate to place this article in Category:Homophobia, and the eventual consensus was that it was OK. A similar dispute is now underway at National Organization for Marriage. It might be helpful if people who went through the argument here could add their perspective at Talk:National Organization for Marriage#Homophobia categorization. Thanks. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 23:55, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

It was OK, but it needed work. Either the organizations listed must be balanced to include those on the left as well as the right that address the issue, or the category name needed to be changed. But I forget right now. --LegitimateAndEvenCompelling (talk) 10:50, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Balance is generally a better option, imho. Orpheus (talk) 19:18, 6 May 2009 (UTC)