Talk:Jats

I hope this is not referred to as Vandalism as the truth does not suit some people. The majority of Jats, an Aryan Tribe live in the State of Haryana in India. View of Toraman Singh Tokas

to IP above, clarification on Jat ethnicity

To the IP above, do not bold your text and put it at the top of the page. If you believe that that is true, find reliable sources that suggests that.

Why are Jats said to be a distinct ethnic group? Are they not a Kshatriyan caste group? My grandfather is a Jat, but he's also Punjabi. Saimdusan Talk|Contribs 10:29, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Jats see themselves as Kshatriya and Jat writers tend to write this. I have read that they are considered Vaisya due to mostly farmers. In Manu Smirti they are refered to as Sudra. There is a lot of mystery around this. Thanks

Article structure

I've started to try to organise the many facts in this article into a better structure; please feel free to improve on it. -- Timberframe (talk) 09:20, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Jamot

I've removed the phrase "(see article on Jamot)" from the Jat people in Pakistan sub-section because the Jamot article does not mention Jats (although it is catagorised as such). If information is added to the Jamot article to make it obviously relevant to this article then I'd be happy to resinstate the link. -- Timberframe (talk) 07:37, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

BSP

In the Jat people in India subsection I changed "BSP" to Bahujan Samaj Party; if this is wrong please correct it, but please don't revert to "BSP" without explaining what it stands for. Thanks -- Timberframe (talk) 08:07, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

Hookah image

To show common behaviour in a group is not the same as showing behaviour different from that of other groups. Example: Many different cultures play checkers. But a very common rural tradition in some areas in the US is to play checkers. An image of 2 men playing checkers might well be appropriate for many different areas of the world, with possibly the only difference being their appearance (clothing, adornments, whatever). I don't see any objection to the image in the deleting edit summary, although the statement that it is not specific to Jat people is certainly true. There are Southern US Jazz musicians of many nations, cultures, origins, social strata who use the hooka. I support keeping the image.- sinneed (talk) 03:43, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

I would suggest that any images should add to, enhance or reinforce the reader's appreciation and understanding of the primary subject of the article. The image in question is captioned "A typical Jat chaupal in a village smoking a hubble-bubble (hooka)", but the article doesn't explain what a "chaupal" is, so it doesn't enhance my understanding; nor does it claim to show anything characteristicly "Jat" - the article makes no mention of smoking. Furthermore, some 36% of the caption (4 words out of 11) is concerned with the smoking which appears to be undue weight for a subject to which the article gives no weight at all. Furthermore, the reader may reasonably be misled by this image to believe that this form of smoking plays a significant role in Jat culture. I suggest that the image serves no useful purpose in the article, and may well be counterproductive.-- Timberframe (talk) 19:22, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Makes sense to me. :)- sinneed (talk) 21:19, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

122.162.97.233 edits

I reverted the edits by this user and neglected to make comments. The reason why I did this was that "Gujjar" was changed to "Ahir" when the reference stated "Gujjar". Also, the references added either were dead links or did not meet wiki standards (i.e. wiki type pages themselves).--Sikh-History 08:09, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Jatt

In punjabi>> JATT KI TE GHAT KI..YAARI JATT DI TOOT DA MOSHA KADE NA WICHALEO TUT DI>>WE ARE VERY PROMISING PEOPLE,WE SAY WE DO IT.....OR DIE.WE BELIEVE IN THE SAYING:EVERYTHING IS FAIR IN LOVE AND WAR. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.130.177.35 (talk) 06:07, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

"Religion" section

Are there any reliable sources for any of the assertions made in the following passage?

Most Jat Gotras (which also have the most population) fall under the Hindu Jat Gotra list according to various books on Jat History. During the early 1900s four million Jats of present-day Pakistan were mainly Muslim by faith and the nearly six million Jats of present-day India were mostly divided into two large groups: Sikhs, concentrated in Punjab, and Hindu; in accordance with the Hindu varna system the Jats belong to Kshatriya varna. Jats were Sakas (outsiders from India) or republic kshatriyas, like the Khatris, Tarkhan people, Rajputs, Lohars, Gujjars and Kambojas, and these communities are closely (genetically) related to the Jat community.

If not I propose that the "alternative" theory which follow it should be given precedence over it. The sentence about Jats being Sakas relates to their geographical origins rather than their religion, and so, if it is supported belongs elsewhere in the article.

-- Timberframe (talk) 09:00, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

I am really not sure. There are conflicting theories. Jatt sources claim to be Kshatriya (especially those from Haryana). Those in Punjab claim to be Vaisya (due to farming). Those outside Haryana and Punjab are seen as Sudra. Where I am not sure, I tend to add all and let the reader make his/her mind up. Like wise some claim, Jatts to be Saka, and others Aryan. The area where both these people come from i.e. old Persia is roughly where old Sakastan was. So I would say its the same thing. Cheers --Sikh-History 09:40, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

OJLA JATTS

With their irresistible might, they earned the name “Massa Getae” from the ancient Greeks, and Ta-Yue-che from Chinese-both words meaning the great Jats” Massa in Pehlavi language means “Great” and the Chinese word “Ta” also means “Great” The destroyers of Cyrus the Great, the scourge of Chinese Han emperors. Who were forced to build the Great wall in order to escape them. They lived but a simple, down-do-earth, practical life. Inseparable from their houses, riding them awake and asleep, the first bowmen to shoot accurately from the horsebacks, they defeated Tamerlane the great (Taimur Lung) whom they forced to become the “adviser” of their crown prince, Khoja Oghlan-A jat from the Ojhlan clan. Born rulers, haters of dependence, quick-tempered, an odd mixture of happy-go-lucky and the sanguinary talents, they adopted but Royal names-all their clan name mean, royal “prince,’ ‘Head’, ‘high’ or ‘chief’. Breathing war and battle every moment of their life, they had no time to mourn their dead. They deliberately hid and covered the graves of their kings so that nobody could know their burial place and it was for this purpose that they sometimes killed the gravediggers and made rivers flow over the sacred graves of their kings. Like the Great pandava. Prince Bhima (Who vowed to drink the blood from cups made out of their enemies’ shulls and to be constantly reminded of their vows, they mixed their own blood with the blood of their dead. Most secular and their open-minded people in the world, their lack of religious fanaticism is reflected in their easy adoption of Mithraism, Zoroastrianism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, Sikhism, and Christianity. Their coins, too reflect the symbols of practically all these religious of the world. From Ashtavegu to Attila to Akun to Ellok, from Balameer to Basana, from Maodum to Mihirkula, from Hapthal Katariya to Toramana Jauhla, from Ghangas to Kasavan-the history of Asia and Europe is replete with name of Jat emperors and their clans. Jats- The Ancient Rulers page 3 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.73.1.16 (talk) 09:18, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Title Change to Jatt

Jat should be spelt Jatt. It used to be spelt like that a long time ago. Nowadays, it's always Jatt. New Bhangra albums prove this. Such as "Miss Pooja - Romantic Jatt". Please change. Thank you.