User talk:Netoholic

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Motivation

"They are never alone that are accompanied with noble thoughts." – Sir Philip Sidney (1554 - 1586)

"To avoid criticism do nothing, say nothing, be nothing. – Elbert Hubbard (1856 - 1915)

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Simple Logo

Hi,

creating a transparent logo from a non-transparent one is a lot harder than just using the existing transparent one as a template. I would ask you to keep in place the Simple Logo I created, in order to maintain the distinction between the projects, until a better replacement can be found.-Eloquence* 19:21, Feb 13, 2005 (UTC)

Wikijunior Solar System Needs You

Danny Wool has challenged us to get Wikijunior Solar System out to hurricane evacuees by October 32005. This is going to be tough!

You expressed interest in WikiJunior. Would you be willing now to join the push to get Wikijunior Solar System completed?

--SV Resolution(Talk) 16:02, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

Images on your user page

Both the Hulk and the Cowbell pictures are fair use only, and shouldn't be used on user pages. Ral315 (talk) 04:43, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

I'm not trying to be annoying; just noting that Wikipedia isn't authorized to use these images on user pages. Ral315 (talk) 17:20, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

Parody is fair use; I just didn't know that's how you were claiming the images. Sorry for bothering you. Ral315 (talk) 17:28, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

I'm afraid this image, Image:Cowbell2.gif, is used in articles under fair uses and therefore its use is not allowed on user pages. Could you remove it please? Dustimagic *\o/* ^{(talk/contribs)} *\o/* 23:09, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Your help will be appreciated

I have replied on my talk page User talk:0.39 to your remarks about the template I have been working on (User:0.39/Orbiter (sim)/Infobox Spacecraft Template)... Is your offer of help still on?0.39 11:08, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

dog project folks again.

Hi, hate to bother you again..

We'd like your advice over at Template_talk:Infobox Dogbreed - you can see the issues we've run into on the talk page.

Thanks! - Trysha ^(talk) 00:00, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Muslim Campaignbox

I've added Template:Campaignbox Muslim Conquest, but since I did this unilaterally, others may want to have their say before it becomes an official change. Palm_Dogg 21:45, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

TfD votes

Why would you nominate templates that have recently been added and well used, without asking these templates' creators for the reason we created them (which you have not taken into consideration), when clearly we (the creators) are active on Wikipedia. I myself have been active for nearly two years, have worked on countless projects and would not create a template willy-nilly without a damn good reason. Being that every time someone wanted to add an improvement on to their particular project's infobox that they wouldn't have to request a change to a template that may affect some possible thousands of articles.

You have made an effort to nominate and explain why these deserve nomination, some people deserve the common decency of finding out that you've nominated their templates for deletion instead of stumbling upon your "deletion notification" by accident. It's like you didn't want any potential opposition. ℬastique▼^parℓer♥^voir♑ 03:47, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Garzo's blocks

I have been blocked by User:Garzo, who is directly involved in a dispute with me. Despite repeated attempts to express the importance of complying with Wikipedia:Avoid using meta-templates, Garzo has repeatedly reverted my attempts to put in place a replace to the non-compliant Template:Language. I have been migrating a few articles to Template:Infobox Language, which does not use meta-templates, yet presents the same information on an article level. -- Netoholic @ 20:37, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Linuxbeak has unblocked you. I expect you to discuss all controversial changes with others first and build on consensus. You were warned that you would be blocked, but chose to ignore the warning and continued adding your template to articles. I don't expect you to be doing that. --Gareth Hughes 20:59, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Wow, and Garzo re-blocked. How fun. -- Netoholic @ 04:29, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

I have asked repeatedly not to replace templates on language articles with your own version. Your contribs show you have done this to dozens of articles today. No one wants this template. --Gareth Hughes 04:33, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

uh-huh, and look at your contribs today also... Violation of WP:AUM and abuse of admin privileges to drive home the point that you own the language template here. -- Netoholic @ 04:35, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Taxobox

Netoholic, regarding edits on Template:Taxobox. Personally, I don't care about whether or not the list headers are th or td based. However, your wholesale revert also abandoned the alignment attributes, which make a number of pages more legible and I imagine don't interfere with screenreaders. Also, using the infobox style was rejected repeatedly, so - whether or not the reasons were good - switching back to it is only going to created edit wars, and make it harder to accept any infobox standards in the future. Thanks, Josh 23:36, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Ah... The entire problem is that there is a table within a table. I'll take care of that, then you can see that the alignment is taken care of with the class=infobox. One thing disturbs me though... that you reverted because you are concerned about an edit war starting. That doesn't make sense to me. -- Netoholic @ 23:39, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

I reverted because of the alignment, and if you can take care of it, I'll be happy. For the rest I'm simply warning you that the TOL consensus is against infobox formatting, so don't expect it to stick. I'd prefer we use a customizable style, but too many editors have tried to force the matter without discussion, which doesn't help. Thanks, Josh

Qif in template main

Template:Main recently started using Qif. Main is one of the most widely used templates on Wikipedia, and if qif is a resource drag, this is a big one. Template:main is also protected. If you can re-write it without the use of Qif while retaining the same functionality, I can work to get the new code in place. Let me know what you think. Or, if you can suggest what needs to be done to remove qif, I can ask the person who wrote the current version. --Stbalbach 19:09, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

I've overheard this discussion and created a non-{{qif}} replacement for {{main}}. See User:Freakofnurture/Main. Demonstrations of use are on its talk page. It uses the same input syntax as the current one but uses hiddenStructure trickery instead of meta-templates. — FREAK OF NUR_xTURE (TALK) 21:09, Jan. 7, 2006

Since you seem to be online now, your opinion here (as an authority on templates) would be appreciated. — FREAK OF NUR_xTURE (TALK) 05:49, Jan. 8, 2006

The infobox works

Hey, Netoholic. Thanks for getting back to me. I'll confess that I'm not that good with technology, and from a purely technical standpoint, I don't know, say, the feasibility of using family colors in a template. I'll just have to take your word for it; you clearly know more than I do about this. Again, thanks for responding! Take care, --Whimemsz 21:00, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

Infobox City

Thank you for your recent edits to Template:Infobox City, especially concerning the hiding of various rows. Your contributions have made it usable with many more localities across the United States. I wish I had your magnitude of wikiexpertise; it would have saved me hours! — Seven Days » talk 05:45, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Template:Infobox Ethnic group

Hi, Netoholic. I saw your work on the Language infobox template, and would like to incorporate a feature from there to the Template:Infobox_Ethnic_group. Basically, I want the "Related Ethnic Group" field to be optional. And when it's not in use, that field shouldn't show up. I tried to look at what you did on the language template, but couldn't really understand the boolean operators you used. So rather than screwing it up, I'm hoping you could help. Thanks. --Chris S. 08:31, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Thanks a bunch! I see you used something totally different, so I was out in left field. heh. --Chris S. 09:47, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

indenting

I noticed that class="notice" and the colon indent give different depths of indentation:

Colon-indented text

The class="notice" method.

I was unaware of the customizations made possible by the method you recommended, but did note that uses of that template are often followed by another template using the other indent-style. I guess we should change them all over to class="notice" for consistency. — FREAK OF NUR_xTURE (TALK) 09:36, Jan. 8, 2006

It would probably be best to compile a complete list and change them all at once. Very few would notice the difference then, let alone freak out to the tune of "omg uneven indenting" and revert. — FREAK OF NUR_xTURE (TALK) 09:45, Jan. 8, 2006

A discussion that may interest you

Greetings:

You may be interested in the discussion regarding template redirects located at the bottom of User talk:Jamesday.

All the best.
Ξxtreme Unction|_{yakkity yak} 12:31, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Template:Infobox Language issues

Hi, Netoholic! Tobias Conradi informally asked me to mediate the issues surrounding the (Infobox) (L/l)anguage template. I agreed to look into the matter, and so far compiled a brief summary, available here. If you could review it and leave a comment if necessary, that'd be much appreciated. Thanks!—Ëzhiki (erinaceus amurensis) 20:25, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

Hi, Netoholic! Thank you for providing your comments. I drafted a proposed solution for you and other involved parties to review. If you accept it, please indicate so below the proposed solution section. If you do not, please explain your grievances there. Thank you!—Ëzhiki (erinaceus amurensis) 16:36, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Just as clarification—I offered protection not because I'm afraid the template is going to be vandalized often and not fixed for long (I'm sure enough people watch after it so it will not), but for the impact the very act of editing it would have. If someone vandalizes it (or even tries to improve it without knowing that a new template is being developed)—it's a couple hundred server calls already, then it's another couple hundred when it's reverted. Which is exactly what WP:AUM aims to prevent. Comments?—Ëzhiki (erinaceus amurensis) 22:10, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

New comment available.—Ëzhiki (ërinacëus amurënsis) 16:10, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Apology for editing fluke

you wrote:

Would you please fix my vote page? Your recent edit removed a lot of votes on both sides. I don't want to interfere with the page myself. Thanks. -- Netoholic @ 07:56, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

It seems to have been fixed already by someone. I apologize. I noticed a fluke after my first edit and thought I fixed that by the next one. Apparently not. Sorry again. --Irpen 08:50, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Wikiproject Template Optimization?

Having recently helped with Template:Infobox Philosopher and having seen CDB's comment here, I'm coming to the conclusion that there is indeed significant need for competent template writers who are able and willing to help the "average Joe" in actually implementing WP:AUM, rather than just complaining about the situation. I understand you've been doing this thankless job for quite a while, and would like to help more personally, and I suspect I'm not the only one. I think there might be some need for, if not an actual Wikiproject, then at least a list of users who would like to help fix problematic templates. What do you think? —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 12:47, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

I would help too as soon as there is consensus what to use as replacement for qif. I'm ok with the project name as proposed but would also be happy if we could name it just "Wikiproject Templates" so that possibly all problems around templates could be discussed there. Adrian Buehlmann 13:16, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

class=notice

I am well aware of the benefits of using a CSS class, but the notice class has 1.2em of margin and padding. Disambig links have been marked up in this way for years, so I would like to know how you justify changing the default appearance of half the pages on Wikipedia without discussion? Also classes should not be used just because their current properties suit your needs. The notice class, not designed for top-line disambig notices, may need to be changed, and shouldn't be tied down by extra uses. The dablink class already exists for disambig links ("dablink"), and this class should be modified to add any padding which, until you've had a discussion about it, should be on the left only. ed g2s • talk 15:23, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Notice is for inline notices which, when sandwiched between text, may require extra padding. Dab links do not have vertical margins, this is the status quo. If you want to change that you need to have a discussion first. The monobook.css file can be changed to include extra rules for dablinks. The current system of definition lists is not ideal, but nor is it invalid code, <dt> tags are not required in a definition list (from w3c: <!ELEMENT DL - - (DT|DD)+ -- definition list -->). ed g2s • talk 17:07, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

I think the best solution would be to have dab links as <div class="dablink">''For other....''</div> then add .dablink to common.css. This way you won't have to disturb other elements that use "notice" already. ed g2s • talk 18:02, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

The dablink class already exists and is in use, even on pages that don't use the template. Why add another class? ed g2s • talk 19:48, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

MediaWiki:Common.css

Hi. I would like to ask if you would support an addition to MediaWiki:Common.css. I would like to add:

.if{
   display: none;
}

We would then be able to do:

<span class="if{{{Edition|}}}">, {{{Edition}}}</span>

instead of:

<span class="hiddenStructure{{{Edition|}}}">, {{{Edition}}}</span>

This could help to "sell" the CSS solution to the folks. What do you think? Adrian Buehlmann 16:41, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Ok. Thanks for your message. Adrian Buehlmann 18:34, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Infobox University

Hi Netoholic. I notice your NetBot changing {[tl|Infobox British University}} to {{Infobox University}} on British University articles. Is this being done for a particular reason? I'm a little worried that some of the terminology in Infobox University is inappropriate for British universities: in particular 'School type', which is a glaring error on an article about a British institution. --Nick Boalch ^?!? 19:27, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification. 'Type of institution' works fine for me. I hadn't realised there were so many different university infobox templates! --Nick Boalch ^?!? 19:34, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

ArbCom elections

I would like to see you on ArbCom, but I have voted neutral because I find your second plank ambiguous. If a problem user (in ArbCom's best judgment, on the evidence) simply ignores an arbitration, should ArbCom sanction them, or not? Septentrionalis

Infobox Bridge

Sorry about reverting your changes earlier on Template:Infobox Bridge. I think I figured out what happened. In the old Template:Bridge there was no field for an image, so I added the image under the "bridge name" field. Now that the bridge template redirects to Infobox_Bridge, image is an optional field. I'll move them, and when I am finished I'll fix the one field that is still off (I reverted everything back to your changes, minus the "bridge name" field). Thanks, Cacophony 01:18, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Arbcom candidate userbox

Greetings. I've made a new userbox for arbcom candidates to show on their userpages so that visiters will know they're running.

{{User arbcom nom}}

If you'd like to place it on your userpage, feel free. Regards, – Quadell ^{(talk) (bounties)} 02:29, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the offer, but... -- Netoholic @ 03:58, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Infobox university - again

Your bot is changing a huge amount of these - and losing, or making the information incorrect ever time. Could this be done individually? Rkevins82 02:49, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Well, my bot made several edits, but due to quirks that crept in (due to weird usage of the templates), I made sure to check each edit and make follow-up corrections. If there is something specific I missed, let me know which articles. -- Netoholic @ 03:58, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

I've noticed on an article I monitor (Illinois Institute of Technology) that it continually changes "Faculty" to "Staff." Staff and Faculty of a university are two very different groups, and should be kept seperately. A university with a large staff is very differnt from a university with a large faculty. To make matters worse, the bot also changed the word "Faculty" to "Staff" in a section heading - twice. -Duncanr 05:08, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

This is per Template talk:Infobox University. "Faculty" has widely different meanings in Europe and elsewhere. Keep in mind that the parameter is open-ended, so you can qualify the numbers with a short text description. Overall, "staff" has the clearest usefulness across many articles. -- Netoholic @ 05:18, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Specifically, a faculty in Europe is just one part of the university as a whole; see Technical University of Vienna, for instance. —Nightstallion (?) 07:57, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

So the word is used differently in other countries, but wasn't this why there were different Infoboxes for different nationalities? That's what I gathered from Template talk:Infobox University - there seemed to have never been a consensus to change the usage to one template for all. Changing faculty to staff on American universities mostly just reverses the argument - at an American university, faculty are not generally considered to also be "staff" or even a subset of the "staff," since faculty are eligible for tenure, have their own governance, etc. Especially in modern times, the two groups are very different. At the least, try to keep the bot from changing other uses of the word "faculty" on the article (even those outside the Infobox). - Duncanr 23:52, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

If you are correcting the usage of the template then it might also be proper to correct the faculty-staff information. American universities should probably use the American distinction. Rkevins82 02:32, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Template:tdeprecated

When I made that template, I had in mind that it could be used to mark a template that has been superseeded by another template, and inform the third part to use that tempalte instead. But before putting it eventually on tfd. _→AzaToth 13:23, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Template:Infobox School

If you are going to change the usage of the infobox, you gotta change the usage on the talk page, otherwise, revert. —Wikibarista 19:19, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Naming conventions for television shows (again)

I saw that you were active in the first vote for naming conventions of television program(mes). Well it has raised it's ugly head again and I would appreciate any comments you have to make about my new proposal for naming television shows. Please leave comments here. Thanks! --Reflex Reaction (talk)• 21:42, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Reply

I wasn't stalking. I noticed your comment on Template talk:Language and that's how I found out. --Khoikhoi 07:34, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Fine, I won't revert anymore, as long as you promise to stop threatening me. And what do you mean, "precisely my point"? Your point was proven wrong! --Khoikhoi 07:44, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

I'm just saying you'd be a complete hypocrite for reporting because I'm being disruptive. --Khoikhoi 08:01, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Various lists of colleges

Good job locating these, they've been fixed. See also [1], lol. — FREAK OF NUR_xTURE (TALK) 10:54, Jan. 12, 2006

University infobox bot

Hi. Noticed your bot updated the infobox at Trinity University (Texas), and some other content on the page. Among a few welcome changes, I noticed that it changed mention of "faculty" to "staff." This suits me fine when done in box itself, but it changed a section heading (Notable Faculty) in the same way, which didn't seem to make as much sense, as there's a distinction between the two. However, people who know enough to use bots here tend to have a firm grasp on the style guidelines, so I figured you could fill me in on the change. Thanks. Deadsalmon 19:41, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

I heard this happen on a couple articles. It was an unintended side-effect that I am going to correct the next time I run the bot against the university articles. -- Netoholic @ 19:47, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Good deal. Thanks. Deadsalmon 21:06, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Request for your vote

I saw that you voted against the adminship of William M Connolly. I reviewed said candidate's actions on the Cold Fusion article and determined them to indeed be very biased and uncivil. I haven't looked at WC's actions on the aetherometry article yet though. The vast support for WC is truly disturbing. I am a candidate for the arbitration council. William M Connolly is precisely the type of biased and uncivil person that I would fight against.

I request that you review my candidate statement and questions at: Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee_Elections_January_2006/Vote/LawAndOrder , and consider voting for me, though only if you have suffrage for arbitration committee elections (registered before 9/30/2005, and have over 150 edits before 1/9/2006). The votes are vastly against me, so I will not win, but I have very few support votes, so voting for me will at least show that I (who is on your side) am less of a pariah. LawAndOrder 21:18, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Hey are you Shane??

Hey are you Shane? - JedOs 02:55, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

Template:Infobox Governor

I added the image_size parameter because some articles use a very tall photo. See this old revision of Jeb Bush. It would be nice if one could specify both the (maximum) height and (maximum) width of an image and have it scale accordingly within an imaginary box. — FREAK OF NUR_xTURE (TALK) 07:57, Jan. 14, 2006

I adjusted it to avoid that. If you specify the size in ##x##px , the first number is the max width, and the second is the max height. So this keeps the 250 max width and sets a 300px max height. Feel free to adjust, but it seems to work most places. -- Netoholic @ 08:12, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

Sweet. I thought I was just dreaming about that feature. Ought to impliment it in other infoboxes as well. — FREAK OF NUR_xTURE (TALK) 08:18, Jan. 14, 2006

Be prepared, because some people, me included, kind of dislike the extra blank border on the sides of the image and would rather have it fill the box to the edges. -- Netoholic @ 08:21, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

I can cure you of that really quick. — FREAK OF NUR_xTURE (TALK) 08:25, Jan. 14, 2006

Regarding the above, I seem to have upset a WP:OWNer (see [2]) who has reverted my edit to restore his own Delaware-specific infobox (hist). Your input would be welcome. — FREAK OF NUR_xTURE (TALK) 12:20, Jan. 14, 2006

enlighten me please

Why do you insist that it should be Template:Infobox Lighthouse when all the articles which use it, use it as Template:Infobox lighthouse? -- RHaworth 08:43, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

OK. As long as you change all the articles which use it to avoid the redirect. -- RHaworth 08:50, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

Template:Oh My Goddess Infobox-Generic

ifelse structures do not work like that. Please stop. --Cool Cat^Talk|@ 10:53, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia python library

What is the Wikipedia python library? Hyacinth 11:10, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

Metatemplates

In the spirit of metatemplates, I would like to hear your opinion on this particular piece of convolutedness. Radiant_>|< 11:38, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

Ship table

I see that you have put the deprecated tag into the Ship table template and written your own template with needless duplication. I have now finished purging Ship table of QIF references so it now has no meta templates in its structure. Consequently I have removed the deprecated tag. I would appreciate it if you are going to do something like that in future that you let me know so that I have an opportunity to fix things.

I am not wedded to meta templates, they merely provided the most elegant way of creating functionality for the table that was available at the time. With their server load drawbacks, and the fact that a way has been to found to do 95% of what the meta templates were used for it is appropriate to replace them. David Newton 18:06, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

Leet

Whoa, there. That's unilateral. Could you maybe try to gain consensus before acting like that? It's a significant change to the article. And you said "see talk", but left no comment. You can probably tell from the talk page therein that there are several people actively watching that page. Avriette 22:43, 14 January 2006 (UTC)