Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mutton fat white jade

Mutton fat white jade

Mutton fat white jade (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log • Stats)

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This is one of several rather dubious articles (see WP:AN#Problem articles - possible fraud?, permalink) which reads like a combination between a personal essay and a high-gloss sales catalogue for artworks from such material, and lacks reliable sources - in short, it raises big red flags with respect to the trinity of core policies WP:V, WP:NPOV and WP:NOR.  Sandstein  13:11, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

• Speedy delete looks like an obvious hoax to me Seasider91 (talk) 13:56, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

It's just an article written on a subject of Mutton fat white jade and has nothing to do with Possible Fraud guessed by somebody. If someone has different opinions about the contents of this article, he should then join to edit the contents to improve this subject. It's really not good to delete the whole subject of Mutton fat white jade for interfering the readers' rights to understand this subject. -- Orionandhsu (talk) 14:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

Delete Smells like complete BS. Fails WP:V. OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 14:38, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of China-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 15:08, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Visual arts-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 15:08, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

• Delete per nom...Modernist (talk) 16:12, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
• Keep - Wasn't this just up at AFD??? Yes, there is such a thing as "Mutton Fat White Jade." It is a type of jade, very rare and very valuable. It is well covered in the collectors' literature. This article has certain problems. It is also overflagged — ridiculously so. But the topic is encyclopedic, which is what we are supposed to be discussing here. Carrite (talk) 16:29, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

The piece lists AN ENTRY on Mutton Fat White Jade from an encyclopedia published by the Taiwan Ministry of Culture. (in Chinese) Carrite (talk) 16:33, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

Taiwanpedia is a user-edited site like Wikipedia, and the article on Taiwanpedia was created on July 10 by a user named "Orion Web Museum". And User:Orionwebmuseum is blocked on Wikipedia for spamming. Smells very fishy. -Zanhe (talk) 17:58, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

THIS PIECE from the Los Angeles Times deals with the subject of Hotan jade, or Nephrite jade, which comes in a range of colors including "Sheep-fat-oily mutton fat white jade." It's a cumbersome term, but that seems to be the commonly used full name for this sort of jade. Carrite (talk) 16:44, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

The merge target, if it comes to that, is Nephrite. Carrite (talk) 16:51, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

It is indeed a legitimate term for a kind of jade. The concern here is that the creator of the page is also posting images of jade items that could be fakes, using wiki to give false credential to fake items, and using the page a promotional tool to sell these items in auction. If it is to be kept, the article needs a rewrite and all the images upload by the creator of this page must be removed. Hzh (talk) 17:00, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

Just to add that the two jade items shown on the page are listed here for sale - here and here. Hzh (talk) 17:51, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

• Comment - We currently have Nephrite jade as a redirect to jade, and Nephrite including a section on jade. I think I'd be fine with a merge here, merging and redirecting both Mutton fat white jade and Nephrite jade to Nephrite and making a note of it with a disambiguation line at the top of the Jade page. That seems like a decent solution. This is the wrong venue to discuss the authenticity or lack thereof of items shown in photographs used at WP. Carrite (talk) 17:09, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
• Delete - Spamming/hoax page created by User:Orionandhsu, who appears to be a sock puppet of blocked User:Orionwebmuseum. -Zanhe (talk) 18:02, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
• Delete While a legitimate term, this article was created to be the part of an advertisement campaign. If there are indeed reliable sources covering it, which does seem possible, it would be better if the article is deleted and then rewritten from scratch with actual reliable sources. Silverseren^C 20:48, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
• Delete, perhaps this could be a legitimate subject, but nothing already included would be of any value to an article. Also "Wonderful and Amazing Soakage of an Archaic Ancient Mutton Fat White Jade"?--Jac16888 ^Talk 11:17, 13 July 2012 (UTC)
• Delete While the topic may be notable, the content of the article is problematic and in my eyes clearly intended as promotional. It would be better to delete and replace with content from an editor with no conflict of interest. Peacock (talk) 11:34, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

Possible Fraud and Possible Murder are both not crimes at all, but an Act of Libel or Slander is indeed a crime. "Mutton Fat White Jade" can be searched in many editions of encyclopedia including Chinese Edition encyclopedia published in China. I don't know why gentlemen and ladies here were all discussing this subject as if other editions of encyclopedia were all never to be existed except Wikipedia. Why not everybody here just refers to other encyclopedia to see what other encyclopedia have done very well, then joins this discussion. -- Orionandhsu (talk) 17:41, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

What are you talking about? Murder and fraud have nothing to do with this, and if you're trying to accuse other editors of libel or slander towards you I suggest you read WP:NLT. The simple fact is that this article is written badly and in a promotional way, and is therefore not appropriate for an encyclopedia--Jac16888 ^Talk 17:51, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

The documents themselves can not defend a personal crime of an Act of Libel or Slander in the court! This is a public discussion forum. Orionandhsu (talk) 19:03, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

Nobody except you has said a single thing about fraud, murder, libel or slander--Jac16888 ^Talk 19:50, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

The difference between Wikipedia and Encyclopedia of Taiwan, Ministry of Culture, Taiwan, R.O.C. is that the writers of articles have to register their ‘’’True Names and Identities’’’ with Ministry of Culture first, and the contents of articles have to be submitted to Ministry of Culture for careful studies and amendments before they are published to the public. Writers have to be fully responsible for the contents of the articles that were written by them. Besides in Taiwan an Act of Libel or Slander in public discussion forum is a crime and will be arrested by internet policemen via IP address. Writers in Wikipedia are all anonymously unknown to readers and the public discussion forum in Wikipedia seems to be a place for an anonymous sign-up user to conduct an Act of Libel or Slander without restrictions. Orionandhsu (talk) 01:11, 14 July 2012 (UTC)