Talk:Jerry Garcia

The Warlocks

The band called The Warlocks that inspired the band that became the Grateful Dead to change their name has been the source of much speculation on both this article and the Grateful Dead article. Some guess that the band in question consisted of members of what would become The Velvet Underground; others suppose that it included a little ol' bass player and a little ol' drummer from Texas. The problem with both of these assertions is that neither has been verified. If there is a source for either speculation, please cite it. If you can't cite a source, don't include the material. JSC ltd 15:34, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Tribute removed from article

Removed from article:

His legacy left more on this earth than a set of designer ties and tasty ice cream flavor. His music has inspired thousands upon thousands of humans to get together and enjoy life. His playing was more than a string of notes placed in a rythymic sequence, it opened the minds of listeners across the world. His death was one the most tremendous losses to the music world. His body is dead, but his music is reborn every time a new person catches the melody from a distance and can't help the urge dance or join in singing. Fare thee well.

This is very touching and also expresses my own POV but I'm sorry to say that per our NPOV policy this cannot be in the article proper. It's fine here though - many people will still read it. --mav 20:08 22 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Most intently studied?

From the article:

He has become one of the most intently studied musicians in history.

Really? By whom? Do we have a reference on this? Has he been studied more in the last 40 years than, for instance, Mozart has been studied in the last 200? --Doradus 02:17, Dec 10, 2004 (UTC)

How many musicians do you know from the last 200 years? Mozart tribute orchestras? Compared to those who study Zappa? It's a lot easier to study Garcia than Mozart. Good point, I can't dispute it, but I think the statement is totally inaccurate but you could do a lot better than Mozart. Green Day is more studied than Mozart.

Ok, now it says "one of the most studied 20th Century rock musicians". I still don't buy it. Can't anyone find a reference for this? If not, we need to delete it. --Doradus 02:43, Mar 18, 2005 (UTC)

I've played with many,many guitarists for over 20 years and I don't recall one of them citing Garcia as an influence-- the "most studied" comment has to be over the top. --TW

There have been numerous examples of Grateful Dead related graduate thesis, Dead lyrics and subculture studies at the University of California Berkeley and Santa Cruz campuses (see one of the links in this article). Also note the discussion pages on www.archive.org's Grateful Dead link. Name one other contemporary musician who has virtually every live performance (approximately 2500) as free downloadable material on the internet, with ongoing discussion posts over a particular performance of a particular song on a given night 28 years ago. Musical tastes of TW's guitar buds notwithstanding, I think this certainly qualifies Garcia as "one of the most studied" rock musicians, especially when using the 21st century frame of reference as an internet encyclopedia well should. --MTC

Fine. Find one of those theses that's been peer-reviewed and cite it if you want to make the assertion that Garcia is widely studied. Whether or not lots of your friends, or mine, or even I myself has been influenced by Garcia to whatever extent is irrelevant to an encyclopedia article. Whether or not we can name another guitarist with 2500 free downloadable shows available for study (and we can name at least one--Bob Weir), availability of study material does not necessariliy mean that people are studying it. To infer from his longstanding popularity and sufficiency of recorded material that Garcia is widely studied and hugely influential may actually be a valid inference, but until that inference is made by a published, peer-reviewed source, it is mere conjecture and has no place here.

JSC ltd 21:58, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

The last point is well taken. Wiki is an online encyclopedia, not a blog, and any "one of the most" is inherently opinion (unless it's a quote or cited paraphrase.) "One of the most" sets up the writer as the arbiter of who are what belongs in which group(s.) HOWEVER... that said... most of the assertions that have been made above, on an intuitive level, are off target. Santa Cruz has an enormous Grateful Dead archive... one of the largest ever compiled on any musical entity (e.g., performer, composer, band, etc.), and, quite clearly (though I cite no "authority" is averring this), Jerry Garcia IS one of the most studied musicians of the 20th century. [We just don't happen to have an authority to cite on that, and thus the reason that it shouldn't be part of this Wiki entry.] When I say that, I have no idea how many people have run their fingers over fretboards trying to copy his solos (like Steve Vai has done with Zappa's solos... and transcribed them.) The study of Jerry Garcia's life and music... through reading, listening and performace... is actually a real study at the universities listed above [NB: I fact checked that.]

Since this is a talk page and not an entry, let me make a point about the idea of "studied." When I studied music at Tufts and New England Conservatory... we certainly studied classical composers... but there weren't whole classes devoted to studying a particular jazz, blues or rock artist. I'm quite sure that's the case for most music schools and music departments. Regardless of whether or not this "one of the most" statement was valid, I'd like to point out to those who spoke out above that "study" isn't necessarily a music performance class, studying with a teacher, copying solos, reading a book, listening to music, etc. It's ALL of those things. I'm not a student of the Grateful Dead... but I can see where the conservatory guys would say that that he's not "studied"... I can see where sir lix-a-lot guitarists would say that he's not "studied"... and I could see where pop music listeners would say that he's not "studied." Clearly, you wrap up the whole package and the guy is mondo studied. Sorry for the lecture; just wanted to share my thoughts. --SJC 11.30.08, 9.15 AM PST

Garcia the Beanie Baby

Hey, the "Beanie Baby" article mentions it... shortly after Garcia's death, in one of those bizarre footnotes whose surrealism he would have appreciated, Ty, Inc. introduced a tie-dyed bear with the birthdate of August 1 (Jerry's birthday), 1995 (the year of his death), apparently by way of tribute. The poem on the bear's tag read:

The Beanies used to follow him around / Because Garcia traveled from town to town / He's pretty popular as you can see / Some even say he's legendary!

The Garcia estate, led by Garcia's third wife, filmmaker Deborah Koons, successfully quashed production of Garcia the Beanie Baby as such; Ty renamed the bear "Peace," changed the tag poem accordingly, and added an embroidered peace symbol to the bear's left chest.

I'll leave it to someone else to comment on the official Jerry Garcia dolls made by Liquid Blue, numerous of which now hang in shop windows up and down Haight Street....

-- Gwyn.

He was one of my greatest heros.

Family Stuff

A little project for someone more knowledgeable than myself... If this is an article about J.G. as a person, and not just as an icon, there should probably be something in it about his long-term relationships (e.g., Mountain Girl, Deborah Koons, others) and mention of his children.

By the way, Deborah Koons Garcia is one helluva film maker.

-- M.C.

Jerry Garcia Band

Can anyone please write some more about Jerry Garcia Band? Thanks.--Amir E. Aharoni 08:06, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

I'd think the JGB oughta get its own page. MSherrick 05:05, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Is the Gloria Jones who was in the Jerry Garcia Band really the same person as the Gloria Jones to whom this article's mention of her is linked, (the former partner of Marc Bolan)? That page has no mention of that Gloria Jones' affiliation with the JGB.

for sure Jerry Garcia Band oughtta get it's own page, why does it redirect? Iamnobody2 08:37, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Someone, (perhaps you?), should write a JGB article then. BruceHallman 21:00, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

I've created the Jerry Garcia Band article. If you think you can expand and improve it, you know what to do. -- Mudwater 01:02, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Legacy

can someone substantiate the last paragraph there about the Jerry tribute that Phil didn't attend? IMHO, most of the rest of the article is quite well written and as close to correct as something like this could be...and that ending just ruins it. MSherrick 05:05, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

• http://www.lasvegasweekly.com/2005/10/27/lesh.html
  • When Lesh opted not to participate in last month's "Comes a Time" benefit/Garcia tribute, all-star concert in Berkeley, California, reports of friction with ex-Dead mates Weir, Kreutzmann and Mickey Hart (all of whom performed at the Berkeley event) ran rampant online. "It was a scheduling thing," Lesh insists. "My son went away to college and we had all kinds of family things going that week." --Moeron 19:19, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
    • Thanks for the link Moeron, that sentence definately stays! Wikipedia CAN work :) Go figure :) Tom 00:29, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Phil Lesh, 2005

I have edited the article regarding attendence of 'Comes A Time'.

Tapers??

I remember reading a while back that Jerry was traveling around the country taping bluegrass shows in the early 60's when he was trying to learn how to play banjo - In light of the subsequent effect that the taping policy of the Dead and Jerry had on the music and community surrounding it, I thought this might be important.

Also, what IS the story with that last line about Phil and Hunter and the tribute? someone? anyone?

UncleCheese 04:01, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

subpar

this page is subpar. we need less talk about ice cream and more about what the man did in his life. i feel like im not qualified but I think there has got to be someone out there who can do a little better than this.? -- This unsigned comment was added by Iverson157 (talk • contribs) .

I agree, Sub-par.

I kindov expected his article to be longer. The fact is that JG had an extensive career in music and art that isn’t covered in depth here. Also, this mentions that he started playing "Hillbilly" music... there’s no such genera! "Blugrass" is a good label, maybe even "grass-roots", but "hillbilly" is not a type of music. Didgepenguin

There needs to be less about his personal life and more about his musical craft, guitar playing, song-writing and musical changes throughout the years. If I knew how to use this site properly and had the time I'd do it! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.36.55.96 (talk) 08:22, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

If you read the Wikipedia:Tutorial you'll get a good basic idea of how to edit articles. Wikipedia:Guide to writing better articles has many helpful suggestions and links to other guidelines. Wikipedia:Why create an account? is also recommended reading. Have at it, your participation is encouraged. — Mudwater 23:18, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

I agree, this article reads like a story or like a sanitized biography. Should be more facts and less ..."and then his parents drove him to the hospital". 129.170.204.133 (talk) 23:44, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

The article could be better than it is so far. So, by all means, please help improve it, by adding relevant material, or by copy editing what's there already, or by finding and adding reliable references. This is a collaborative effort, and you're invited to join the party. — Mudwater ^(Talk) 00:03, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

What is up with last name???

Its Garcia. Period. Thanks--Tom 17:53, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

I moved the page back, change all instances with the "í"; I have several GD books, including the Garcia biography by Blair Jackson, and this isn't the case. Also, jerrygarcia.com and dead.net have no instance of an "i" with an accent. Unless a better source than these can be produced (doubtful), it should stay "Garcia". -- moe.RON ^{talk | done | doing} 18:33, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm glad to see we're back to no accent. I'm no expert or even a deadhead, but I don't see why a native english speaker would bother with accents. Alcuin 19:09, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Looking at the history of the page, it turns out the change had been initiated by User:Gaudio; this wasn't his first accent heavy change, though. See User talk:Gaudio#Accent marks as well as a lengthy and amusing discussion at Talk:Jennifer Lopez#Diacritic accent mark on her last name. -- moe.RON ^{talk | done | doing} 19:38, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Even if the accent mark was present on his actual name (I don't know), WP articles are based on musicians' (and actors' etc.) stage names, not their real names. And Jerry's stage name (from all album credits, etc.) was clearly Garcia without any accent mark. Wasted Time R 13:42, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Years active?

Is it really true that Garcia was active from 1950? If so that would mean he was active from the time he was eight years old (which seems highly improbable, though possible) I think this should be looked into and corrected if applicable. --Patking90

No way should there be an accent. Number 1: Garcia did not even speak Spanish, much less pronounce his name with an accent. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.50.15.238 (talk) 13:57, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Accidental amputation

According to the "American Book of the Dead," half of Jerry's finger was amputated when he was five, not four as stated in the article. Being a total newbie, and not wanting to mess with a page like this, I thought I'd pipe up here soliciting input first. --SLCFD876 22:34, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

POV

I have removed this sentence:Of course Garcia's greatest legacy, besides the millions of people whose lives he touched and the thousands of hours of music he left the world, is the Jam band scene the Dead spawned- as it is pure editorializing. There is more where this came from. Levi P. 06:23, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

I am rewriting the sentences about the ties. Who's to say they are popular "because" they are brightly colored? (BRS)

Copy edit

I did a little bit of copy editing. Does the intro really need to talk about his missing the tip of his finger?? Shouldn't this be lower in the article?--Tom 00:30, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Does this article really have ZERO referrences? Even by Wiki standards, that seems strange? I would like to see any unsourced/original research material removed. Any thoughts? --Tom 00:30, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

I have his biography by Blair Jackson as well as some other Dead books, but I haven't gotten around to doing this or the main GD article yet with references because I know it will be a massive undertaking. Do what you think is best. -- moe.RON ^{talk | done | doing} 00:54, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Hi Moeron, I respect your edits and look forward to your work on this. I am a bit surprised, I guess I shouldn't be, that this article has NO references. I hate to say it but the whole artilce should probably be nuked..oh well..carry on! --Tom 01:05, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Last Will and Testament of Jerry Garcia

We wish to advise everyone that we (the Living Trust Network) have a copy of Jerry Garcia's Last Will and Testament posted on our website, which we believe is of interest to anyone seeking information about the life of Jerry Garcia. We have also discussed our desire to post a link to Jerry Garcia's Last Will and Testament with Wikipedia administrators [See User talk:Livingtrust], either under "references" or "external links." Last Will and Testament of Jerry Garcia. Wikipedia does not object to the link but has requested that we not put the link up ourselves since we are a commercial website. Instead, it has requested that we make it known that the Last Will and Testament is available, and anyone who wishes to add the link to the "reference" section or the "external links" section may do so. So, we solicite your help in adding the link set forth above. Thanks. Livingtrust 02:33, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

• It would help our editorial decisions if you could point us at other publications which have written on this subject. We are restricted in how we present unpublished material by the policy on Verifiability. --Dystopos 02:59, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Don't add - I am sorry, but I am against adding it here because of WP:EL#Links normally to be avoided #3 and #9. Looking at Livingtrust's recent contributions, this isn't the only article he is doing this too. This just blares out to my eyes that he wants the links "added to promote a site", in this case, Living Trust Network. Even though it is providing non-service to people, it is still serving a purpose. Under #9, the website would be considered a "social networking site," and it doesn't really meet the expections listed for me in order to add it here. -- moe.RON ^{talk | done | doing} 03:44, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
    • You're correct about the policy on external links. I was referring to article content. If the topic has merited attention in reputable publications, it's only fair to provide the same information here. --Dystopos 03:51, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

FWIW, I just looked on Google, and Jerry Garcia's Will seems to be a public record and is available from many sources. BruceHallman 16:08, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Django Reinhardt influence

Django was one of the biggest influences on Garcia.

Birth Location?

Infobox says he was born in Mexico City. Text of article says he was born in San Francisco. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ichabod (talk • contribs) 09:56, 9 Nov 2006 (UTC)

It is San Fran. I will change it. -- moe.RON ^{Let's talk | done} 18:33, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Collaborations?

Jerry had long standing guest appearances on numerous albums of other musicians...not the least of which was Bruce Hornsby, which put Jerry alongside Bela Fleck on a few tracks (to name but one combination). It seems to me that exploring these in a SEPARATE category than the SIDE PROJECTS category (obviously those side projects were much closer to Jerry's core as a musician) would help to offset the ice cream, the necktie, and the Jim Breuer references...sure, Jerry is a part of pop-culture, but can't we come up with more to say about his musical contributions (those pop-cultural references really ought to be tiny nibbles on this article, as it is they dominate it).

Problems With Article

The wiki for Jerry Garcia needs to be streamlined. Anyone who reads the page from start to finish can see that certain members have "added" information to the page without reading what was put in ahead of them. When I have more time I might do this myself but I thought that maybe someone of more scholarly interest in Garcia would be a better candidate. Over all I would say the Article and it's subheadings need to be unified and need to enforce each other, but not repeat what has been said.

Bulk needs to be removed with focus on the "Legacy" section. Seems a well intended member added that before reading any of the article.

-Tehcarp

References

Feel free to throw in a reference where you feel one needs to be. All of them are very important. AngulaR 08:53, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Heroin Addiction?

How come there's no mention of Garcia's heroin addiction in this article? Jerry Garcia became a heroin addict in 1977 when he began smoking a form known as "The Persian." He was a very sick man at the end of his life. Is this a taboo subject or something? It was common knowledge that he was addicted and he was rehabbing at the time of his dealth. Some sites where this is discussed or mentioned: here, here,here, and here. Griot 19:43, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

The article on Jerry Garcia is sorely lacking in many places; this is why, presumably, Garcia's addictions are not written about in detail. I've been trying to consistently add to and improve the sections of the article, and only recently have I moved on to his career with the Grateful Dead. I, or hopefully anyone else, will add information about what your talking about, but as always, feel free to add it yourself! AngulaR 03:40, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

I think it is untrue to claim that it was common knowdledge that he was using again in the time just preceeding his death. From my personal experience of attending numerous performances in the years preceeding his death, it was understood that he had been doing well in his efforts to remain clean. I now believe that understanding was in error and that in fact he had begun using again at least as early as 94, perhaps earlier. My belief is that it is unfair to claim (as the article did until just a few moments ago) that he "...endevoured to live a healther life until his death at a rehabilitation center...". Feel free to override my insertions which contradict the subtle but real implication that he HAD been clean from 86 until his death. For the record, as a lifelong fan, I am biased, of course. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.183.161.115 (talk) 18:49, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

First, the is no taboo about mentioning almost anything in this project as long as it can be sourced, is relevant and is put in proper context and what else?? If you want to say that Garcia was still "riding the Horse" it should be sourced. Just like if the article wants to say that Garcia was clean and sober before his death should be sourced. If in doubt, LESS is better imho. Mudwater, please chime in :). Thanks, --Tom 19:09, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the invite. ;) I think you said it very well Tom, info about Jerry's drug dependencies is not taboo, but should be carefully sourced, and left out when in doubt. Also, consideration should be given to the overall structure and flow of the article. For example, details about drug use and personal health might be appropriate for the "Personal life" section but perhaps should not be dwelt on in summary section at the beginning of the article. In my opinion the summary section is better off without the recent, and recently removed, edits by 68.183.161.115. The article still specifically mentions heroin addiction in the summary, in the third paragraph. "P.S." To 68.183.161.115 -- I would encourage you to create and use a Wikipedia account, it's very easy to do and your privacy will be well protected -- see Wikipedia:Why create an account?. — Mudwater 00:12, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Wow, smack down on me. I think it is silly to say "For example, details about drug use and personal health might be appropriate for the "Personal life" section but perhaps should not be dwelt on in summary section at the beginning of the article." when in fact the summary section which you just replaced does in fact make claims about his health at the time of his death. Which is it? Not relevant to the summary or deserves to be addressed up front when describing how he died? Can't be both. And WRT ThreeAfterThree who says "if the article wants to say that Garcia was clean and sober before his death should be source..." and yet, it says right there he was clean and sober until his death - "...endevoured to live a healther life until his sudden death at a rehabilitation center..." - that's the way I interpret the sentance. He was clean and sober since 86 and "suddenly" found himself dead, at a rehab center! So the clear implication is that he had suddenly gotten back on the smack. Anyway, you guys obviously have been working on this bio for a lot longer then I have been poking my nose in it so I will not get into an argument with you - its "your" page. And I do have a wiki account, I just couldn't remember my password - I am not a regular contributer - and I was too lazy to do the "send me my password" thing. Sorry. PS. My wiki name (and elsewhere on the tubes) is DireLobo. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.183.161.115 (talk) 01:14, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

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No smack down intended, just a few editors stating their opinions. It's not our article, it's everybody's article. But one of the purposes of a discussion page is to try to form a consensus about different aspects of an article, or, barring that, at least to see if most people agree about something.

What I was trying to say about not dwelling on the drug addiction in the summary (lead) section was that, in my opinion, it's appropriate to briefly mention it in the summary, but that longer discussions about it and about other aspects of Garcia's health should be put into the "Personal life" section. The lead section should be a short, balanced overview summarizing the entire article -- see Wikipedia:Guide to writing better articles#Lead section.

After rereading what you've written in this discussion section, I think you've got a good point about that third paragraph. Although it doesn't say so, it's possible that someone reading it might get the idea that Garcia was clean and sober from 1986 until shortly before his death, and maybe eating well and working out at the health club too. I've decided to be bold and rewrite the paragraph, which I believe now better reflects what you've been saying.

Like you, I have strong feelings about Jerry Garcia, and I appreciate your input into this process. — Mudwater 02:10, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

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Pronoun Antecedents

While camping with his family near Arcata in 1947, his father brought him along when he went fly-fishing; his father soon slipped, plunged into the deep rapids of the Trinity River, and drowned, much to his shock and horror.

His father experienced "shock and horror" while drowning? How could anyone know this, unless Joe called out, "I'm experiencing shock and horror" as he was drowning, and JG remembered the words, and later mentioned them in an interview somewhere?

I'm new at this. Is this picayune? If so, I'm sorry. It jumps out at me as poor writing. But I didn't want to make an actual edit until I understood how things work around here.

--EatonTFores 22:17, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

If you feel that it can be written in a more clear, concise, and readable way, then by all means dive right in and change it! Every edit, regardless of how trivial you may think it is, is helpful. AngulaR 01:50, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

I agree, go for it. There actually would be some things that it's better to talk about first on the discussion page of an article, like controversial issues or really major changes to the article. If you look through a discussion page such as this one you can see what's been debated before. If you're contemplating an upgrade to the grammar or other improvement in the prose, it's better to be bold and "just do it", as part of the collaborative process of making the article better. — Mudwater 23:04, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Technically, there's no problem, the subject of the sentence is "him" read this way: "While Jerry Garcia was camping with his family near Arcata in 1947, Jerry Garcia's father brought Jerry Garcia along when Jerry Garcia's father went fly-fishing; Jerry Garcia's father soon slipped, plunged into the deep rapids of the Trinity River, and drowned, much to Jerry Garcia's shock and horror."

But I agree that the sentence could use some massage to make it easier to parse and less awkward and ambiguous. But as has been mentioned before, be bold and make the change yourself, and you can safely assume others will change it if they feel the need as well. 67.49.8.228 21:34, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Garcia and Wally Hedrick at the San Francisco Art Institute

Dear Editors -- forgive the intrusion on your excellent article on Jerry Garcia, however, I would like to propose a modest expansion of Jerry's 'Early Years' at the San Francisco Art Institute.

Following your fifth paragragh in the section early years, i would like to include the following in one way or another:

At the SFAI, Garcia studied with Wally Hedrick and Elmer Bischoff. It was the only school Garcia would ever be proud of attending. Hedrick, a seminal artist and California countercultural figure in San Francisco in the 1950s, was instrumental in introducing him to the city's bohemian scene. [1] Hedrick served Jerry as a model not only as a painter but as an expositor of a way of life. Hedrick thought Garcia bright and hip, and advised Garcia to attend poetry readings at the North Beach coffee houses, such as the Co-Existence Bagel Shop, the social centre of the Beat community. To Garcia, Wally Hedrick was a genuine beatnik; even keeping a ‘job’ ironically posing as a bohemian sitting at the bar at Vesuvios, a famous hangout in San Francisco’s North Beach, and it was Hedrick who turned the young Jerry on to acoustic blues and Jack Kerouac’s On the Road and all its attendant attitudes. On the Road changed Garcia’s life forever. “Wally taught me that art is not only something you do, but something you are.” While music soon became his main focus, Garcia never stopped drawing and painting.

Given this passages important artistic mentorship, along with its remarkable longstanding legacy, I would like you to consider its inclusion... Thank you and respectfully, I look forward to your comments and suggestions.... --Art4em 18:39, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

---

It looks good to me, especially since you've included a number of references. Thanks for suggesting this addition to the article on the Discussion page first, that's sometimes the best approach. My suggestion would be to go ahead and add this new material to the article. You could wait a while more and see if anyone else responds here, but in my opinion it would be fine to just go for it right now. Don't worry, if anyone doesn't like it they'll just edit it some more. — Mudwater 23:29, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

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Wow!, Thank you for your kind and generous comments. I really appreciate them! Yes, indeed, I am very willing to wait out a good week or two, to see how other people respond since I know that this is not exactly my area of expertise and I would very much like to tread lightly here on this sacred ground. Then, after some time, I will most definitely post it. Thanks gain, I'm happy, all the best, Respectfully --Art4em 02:52, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Looks good. — Mudwater 22:11, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

So glad to be even a very tiny part of this amazing article -- ty! --Art4em 02:19, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

GA status??

Any chance of GA and then FA :).--Tom 19:23, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Biography/Assessment talks about the rating of articles. About a GA (Good Article) rating, it says, "The article has passed through the Good article nomination process and been granted GA status, meeting the good article standards." There is more information about this at Wikipedia:Good article nominations. So, it seems there's a somewhat formal procedure for requesting GA assessment. Feel free to submit the article if you want to. I personally don't have an opinion on whether it should be rated GA or not. But, either the article will get a GA rating, or we'll get some helpful feedback on how to make it a better article. — Mudwater 00:13, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes, there is a formal procedure for GA accreditation. This article is getting there, but the "Side projects" section is totally without citations, and I doubt that GA would be awarded while this is the case. Johnfos 01:22, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

I think this should be submitted to GA. It is well written, well presented and well cited.--h i s ^{s p a c e} _{r e s e a r c h} 04:30, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Had the same thought just now this morning. Gotta look into it. I'd take a jab at copyediting it first and checking all the refs and things, and submit it after that. Gonna put it into my todo list. --Ouro (blah blah) 11:06, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Something to add:

From LA Times 1995 (info below) Even though President Bill Clinton occasionally wears a Jerry Garcia designer necktie, Garcia himself never wore a tie. But he did have a drawer filled with black T-shirts, along with a copy of the "Urantia Book." He once told me that anyone who read that 2,097-page sci-fi/spiritual tome from cover to cover, which he had done, would receive a mysterious visit from three elderly women. They never arrived at his door.

Jerry Garcia on Tour: The Way We Were [Home Edition] Los Angeles Times Los Angeles, Calif. Author: Paul Krassner Date: Aug 13, 1995 Start Page: 2 Section: Opinion; PART-M; Opinion Desk Text Word Count: 1161 Abstract (Document Summary)

http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/latimes/access/21435197.html?dids=21435197:21435197&FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:FT&type=current&date=Aug+13%2C+1995&author=Paul+Krassner&pub=Los+Angeles+Times+(pre-1997+Fulltext)&edition=&startpage=2&desc=THE+NATION+PERSONAL+PERSPECTIVE+Jerry+Garcia+on+Tour%3A+The+Way+We+Were

If Jerry read the entire 2097 page Urantia Book (no easy read!)... well... he must have been inclined to spiritual searching... I remember reading an interview where he said that the spiritual aspects of the 1960s were what interested him the most (or something along those lines). I'm not Wikipedia savvy like the person who posted below (forgive me) but maybe someone would like to incorporate some line about his reportedly having read The Urantia Book with the above as support? 80.216.138.153 (talk) 16:53, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Here is something I think needs adding to the main page on Jerry Garcia. "By the time of his death in 1995, Garcia had gone on to become the most recorded guitarist in history. With more than 2,200 Grateful Dead concerts, and 1,000 Jerry Garcia Band concerts captured on tape—as well as numerous studio sessions—there are about 15,000 hours of his guitar work preserved for the ages." Jerry was the most recorded guitarist in history. I think that is an interesting thing to have up there. It's from here - http://www.guitarplayer.com/article/jerry-garcia-live/oct-07/32077 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.36.55.96 (talk • contribs)

Okay, be bold and add it to the appropriate place in the article, especially since you can cite a source. Also, please sign your posts by using four tildas (~). JSC ltd 20:37, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

I would but I don't understand how to use this site when editing and adding and I think most of this article on Jerry Garcia needs some work and adjusting, a little more about his music and less detail on his personal life. (Davo)

I've added that quote to the "Legacy" section of the article. Thanks for the suggestion and the link. Like JCS ltd, I would encourage you to start editing articles yourself. It's actually quite easy. The best thing for getting started is to read the Wikipedia:Tutorial, it's a great introduction and it's pretty short too. If you want to see more details about how to do a lot of different kinds of edits, check out Wikipedia:How to edit a page. Also, you don't have to but it's best to create a user account and sign in when editing articles. That's really easy to do, and your privacy is very secure. See Wikipedia:Why create an account?. — Mudwater 21:08, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, I will try and take time to understand it and have a go.

I think in the influence section it should be said that Garcia is an influence on the Alt-Country/rock scene of recent times. The Garcia/Grateful Dead period of 1969-1973 was very americana in terms of recording. Numerous Garcia songs are and have been covered by many Alt-Country/Rock bands and people like Ryan Adams, The Black Crowes, Evan Dando count/have counted Jerry Garcia as an influence. I think this should be added somehow.

Also Duane Allman was quoted as saying that he thought Jerry Garcia "Was a prince, who can do anything. He can walk on water, he's that great." It is in the book that came out a year or so ago about Duane's life.

Maybe Dylans quote about Garcia can be added, the one he released at the time of Jerry's death. Also Bruce Hornsby said of all the guitarists he's played with Jerry was still the most interesting because of how original his style was. That is in the book Garcia - An American Life by Blair Jackson.

I think these and more should be added, to help give a greater appreciation of Garcia's genius and influence. (DAVO)

That all sounds good to me. I'd say go ahead and start adding the material. Remember, references, preferably in the form of footnotes, are a big plus, especially with things like you're describing, where famous people are giving their opinions. Check out those links in my previous post, especially the Tutorial. Also, as JSC suggested above, once you create an account and sign in, you can add your signature to your talk page posts (but not articles) with four tildes, i.e. "~~~~". Have fun. — Mudwater 14:05, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks Mudwater, I appreciate that and I have tried many times to join up and start editing but I just don't understand how it works or can get to grips with it. It's too complicated for me. Maybe you or someone else can do it, please. Thanks. (DAVO) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.36.55.96 (talk) 14:55, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Is anyone going to add it? Come on, add substance to it instead of fiddling with minor details in the first paragraph.

Site is too complicated to use. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.36.55.96 (talk) 17:41, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Blanking of heritage

In an effort to have the best, most encyclopedic article about this musician on the Internet, it is logical that we should discuss Garcia's heritage. The repeated blanking of this information from the lead (and failure to replace it elsewhere in the article) appears to show that the editor doing so is trying to make a WP:POINT. I would like to assume good faith, but the ascription of "vandalism" to the insistence that Garcia's heritage not be blanked from the article doesn't show good faith. I will, however, show good faith and request that the editor re-add this information about Garcia's heritage to the article. We owe this to our users. Badagnani (talk) 20:31, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Just a heads up. The above is a total pile of BS. This editor and I got into a tiff at Alan Hovhaness about having ethnicity in the lead sentence per WP:MOSBIO. It seems to have simmered down over there. Unfortunately, this editor has now decided to come here. This editor is not interested in "have the best, most encyclopedic article", rather he is intent on pushing some twisted agenda. Anyways, sorry to have this spill over here. I will NOT edit this article any further but will defer to other editors. Heritage should be discussed under early life or family background it seems rather than in the lead. Anyways, --Tom 20:39, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Am I mistaken in not finding the word Galicia or Galician in the article? I have looked several times, but could not find it. If we really want to make this the best article possible, we will include information about this individual's heritage, and, rather than simply blanking it and moving on to another article (as it appears is this editor's modus operandi), work it into some other part of the article. I hope to see only good faith in the future; it will make editing Wikipedia that much more pleasurable for everyone. This also includes refraining from using profanity, as it appears you have been asked to do more than once on your own user page. Badagnani (talk) 20:52, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Badagnani, just add the material under family section/early life sections and be done with it. Also, please provide a reliable source (that should go without saying oh course). The ethnicity does not belong in the LEAD in this case. --Tom 20:55, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

I have looked again, but could not find any mention of Galicia, which was previously in the article. If we really want to make this the best article possible, we will include information about this individual's heritage, and, rather than simply blanking it and moving on to another article, work it into some other part of the article. Please show good faith (and show that your primary interest is that of our readers, rather than proving a WP:POINT, and restore the information. Thanks. Badagnani (talk) 20:57, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Do you know Garcia's ethnicity? --Tom 21:04, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

The information about which you ask is given in great detail here. It took approximately 5 minutes to find this information. Badagnani (talk) 21:10, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Badagnani, if you want to add ethnicity to the LEAD sentence go for it. I have said I will NOT edit this but deffer to others. This user is very knowledgeable and I am sure can help. --Tom 21:19, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Acting as an "enforcer" and "blanking and running" does not enhance our articles for our users. I respectfully ask that you cease such practice, particularly in the case of subjects you apparently don't have a great deal of familiarity with (as in the case of Alan Hovhaness, where you actually stated that you did not read the sources you were asked to before blanking). I ask again, respectfully, that you restore the information regarding Garcia's heritage, wherever in the article is most appropriate. If you felt unqualified to edit regarding his heritage, you should have commented here *before* blanking, not afterward. Badagnani (talk) 22:25, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

See 2nd post in thread. --Tom 14:29, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Let's try putting the heritage information, with a citation, in the "Early years" section. How's this? — Mudwater 02:42, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

You did a good job, although it could eventually be made more detailed. Sorry you had to clean up after the editor who chose to simply blank and move on to other articles, rather than spending the few moments it would have taken to move the information. Badagnani (talk) 02:45, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

More BS. --Tom 14:20, 16 January 2008 (UTC)ps Thanks Mudwater :) --Tom 14:21, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Roseanne

You should mention that in an Episode of Roseanne, Jerry Garcia makes a pseudo appearance (from "the dead"). Her son is named Jerry Garcia, after him. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.202.30.11 (talk) 06:01, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Ancestry

Is there anything at stake in labelling his paternal ancestry Spanish or Galician? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.208.157.86 (talk) 16:20, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

The distinction is significant to some people, and, since Garcia's paternal grandparents were Galician, that part of the article should probably stay the way it is. — Mudwater ^(Talk) 23:21, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

It's like the difference between Sardinian and Italian, or between being Cajun and American. Peeople from these places are proud of their regional/subcultural/linguistic identities. Badagnani (talk) 23:59, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Right. Also, that sentence in the article has been edited a number of times, including once since my previous comment. The latest iteration is the best yet, I think -- accurate, and with good links, but without belaboring the point: "Jerry Garcia's ancestry was [[Galician people|Galician]], [[Irish people|Irish]], and [[Swedish people|Swedish]]," with a footnote. (See also #Blanking of heritage above.) — Mudwater ^(Talk) 11:19, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Not trying to start anything, but does it matter that Garcia himself spoke of his ancestry as Spanish? "My family was a singing family, on the Spanish side, every time there was a party everybody sang." [2] 217.208.157.86 (talk) 17:11, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

I believe it was previously in the article that both his grandfather and father were recent immigrants from Galicia, where they were seafarers. That's all gone now, and I don't think that's a "best yet" encyclopedic treatment of his paternal heritage. His maternal heritage is also interesting, yet also basically missing. Badagnani (talk) 14:44, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

If more detail were provided about Garcia's paternal ancestry, it would be fine to call him "Spanish," then describe in more detail the region from whence his grandfather (and, I believe, also his father) came. However, although I have requested this level of detail about his father and mother, this information has not been added. Thus, with the very brief sentence about his ancestry, Galicia (which is treated in some details in sources about Garcia, which discuss his heritage) is important to note, as it's a very distinct cultural and linguistic region of Spain. Badagnani (talk) 17:21, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

It is fine to emphasize the Galician ancestry as opposed to Spanish (even though in order to be Galician you have to be Spanish) but not the specific Irish or Swedish regionalisms from his mother's side. The article doesn't specify from where in Ireland or Sweden his mother's family is from but it goes out of its way to make it seem like Jerry didn't have Spanish ancestry. The reason is clear and simple, being of Irish or Swedish is acceptable in America, being Spanish is not. White Americans have a deep fear/hatred of anything that smacks of Spain or the Spanish language. By the way, "Garcia" is a very Castillian-Spanish surname, it is not a Gailican surname, so go figure —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.14.118.222 (talk) 16:21, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

You said: "White Americans have a deep fear/hatred of anything that smacks of Spain"... Huh? I'm gonna throw a double you tee eff question mark exclamation point question mark at that. I might know people who have issues with Mexico, and their immigration... but I have NEVER (and I literally mean NEVER) heard anyone complain about Spaniards. I actually agree with you that such a strong delineation shouldn't be made between a nation, and its constituent parts, but to say this article is structured the way it is because American's have a problem with the Spanish is just absurd. So absurd that it almost requires the usage of words inappropriate for wikipedia. The reason for the specificity is simply because people who think they're smarter than they actually are think it makes them sound smart to differentiate between things like nations, and cultural regions. It doesn't... but that's why they aren't as smart as they think they are. Wikipedia is full of examples where articles suffer from edits made by smart people who think they're REALLY smart (or at least smart people who think they know how to write well). Don't assume that every thing you disagree with was intended antagonistically. A man wont get far with that attitude. 207.154.101.137 (talk) 10:45, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

I'm changing the sentence, from "Jerry Garcia's ancestry was Galician, Irish, and Swedish," to "Jerry Garcia's ancestry was Galician (Spanish), Irish, and Swedish." The article used to say "Spanish" and then that was changed to "Galician". I'm confident that the previous editor was not anti-Spanish but rather showing pride in Galicia. But I think the new version makes it easier for the average reader to understand. As it says in the Spanish people article, which I'm also adding a link to, "Spain itself consists of various regional nationalities including the Castilians, the Catalans, Valencians and Balearics (speakers of Catalan, a distinct Romance language in eastern Spain), the Navarro-Basques and the Basques (a distinct people inhabiting the Basque country and Navarre), and the Galicians, who speak a language which is very close to Portuguese. Regional diversity is important to many Spaniards, and some regions (other than the ones associated with the different nationalities) also have strong local identities and dialects such as Asturias, Aragon, the Canary Islands, and Andalusia." — Mudwater ^(Talk) 21:50, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

It needs a reference that is verifiable; the link was dead. --John (talk) 03:20, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

I've added a reference, from Blair Jackson's book Garcia: An American Life. Here's the beginning of chapter 1: "La Coruña is a small, picturesque seaport on Spain's rugged northwest Atlantic coast. This isn't the sun-drenched Costa del Sol glamorized in postcards and guidebooks — that's hundreds of miles to the south on the Mediterranean. Geographically and climatically, the north coast has more in common with the rocky and rainy parts of western Ireland or Cornwall or Brittany than it does with most of the generally dry Iberian peninsula. In ancient times the region was populated by small Celtic tribes who had migrated there from central and northern Europe. The Romans conquered the territory, which they called Galicia, in the second century B.C...." Great stuff. Jackson can really write. Garcia's father was born in Galicia, and immigrated to the U.S. with his parents and siblings. On page 5 of the book Jackson talks about Garcia's mother's ancestors, who were from Ireland and Sweden. — Mudwater ^(Talk) 03:49, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

Photo of Jerry

Anyone know what happened to the photo of Jerry that used to appear at the top of the article? It was a great shot. Never mind, I found it. I think it was better where it was originally. Anyone else agree?—Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.115.153.68 (talk) 21:40, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

I don't know which photo of Jerry was here before, but am happy to upload the photo which I've added there, in blue. Hopefully, it will add to the strength of the article. To User: Mudwater, thanks for the kind words. Sometimes I make silly mistakes, (although I work an average of 9-11 hours per day every single day) on Wikipedia-- and have done so for the last couple of years. When I do make errors and then find only people pointing them out alone on my talk page after years of nonstop work on the Wikipedia, I do feel discouraged with all the of the articles I contribute to, even in marginal ways, as here. --leahtwosaints (talk) 14:16, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Half Baked

The famous Dave Chappelle movie had Jerri Garcia reference in it (his ghost saved them) Should it be included in the article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.111.241.25 (talk) 13:28, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

improper method of sourcing

This is a completely improper method of sourcing the article. -- The Red Pen of Doom 00:23, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

External links

I returned the Deadnet and Jerry Site links, since those sites have plenty of information about the subject of the article and can be used as resources for a researcher. I deleted the Big Briother website, since Garcia was not in that band, and the site says little about him. I also turned the Internet Movie Data Base link into a citation for that movie in the article, rather than an external link about the subject, since it is a single page about a single documentary.

I think the Fretbase link should either be deleted or turned into a citation in the "Guitars" section, since it contains only a reprint of the wikipedia article plus pictures and info of some of the guitars mentioned in the article. I won't do it myself; I'll leave it to someone who edits that section. Rosencomet (talk) 15:42, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

710 Ashbury

Resolved

 – I added the information into the article text and image caption Sswonk (talk) 02:49, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

I could probably look this up, but I think it would be easier if someone who works on the article regularly and already knows it adds information about the significance of 710 Ashbury. Haight-Ashbury is pictured and captioned and a drug bust at 710 Ashbury is mentioned in the article as if the reader knows what that means, who lived there etc. I'm hoping someone can add a sentence or two to elaborate on why the address is significant. Thanks – Sswonk (talk) 19:26, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Why no Devout Catalyst?

Here I am listening to Ken Nordine's Devout Catalyst (it's great) and there's no mention of it on the Jerry Garcia page. What gives? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Yaqona (talk • contribs) 13:22, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Chia Pet

Apparently around 1993 a limited edition Chia Pet was released. Called "The Grateful Head" it was supposedly based on Garcia, but really didn't look much like him. Worthopedia has a picture and description here: http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/jerry-garcia-grateful-head-chia-pet-grateful - Someone added this, it was deleted, I wasn't sure if this was a reliable source or not. Someone else choose. Regards, --Manway (talk) 01:05, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

I'm the one who deleted it. Offhand I don't have a strong opinion either way on whether or not this reference is good enough, and on whether or not this point is interesting and relevant enough to be mentioned in the article. — Mudwater ^(Talk) 02:34, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

Dead external links to Allmusic website – January 2011

Since Allmusic have changed the syntax of their URLs, 1 link(s) used in the article do not work anymore and can't be migrated automatically. Please use the search option on http://www.allmusic.com to find the new location of the linked Allmusic article(s) and fix the link(s) accordingly, prefereably by using the {{Allmusic}} template. If a new location cannot be found, the link(s) should be removed. This applies to the following external links:

• http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=1:JERRYGARCIA

--CactusBot (talk) 18:51, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

Separate Paragraphs

Do you think we could divide the second paragraph in the article into two separate paragraphs? We split it at the part that begins with "Later in life" about his health issues and death. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.86.22.253 (talk) 19:51, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Hispanic and Hindu?

A Hispanic according to the United States Census is anyone with at least one great-grandparent who originated/has roots in the Spanish-speaking world. Being that Spain is the mother of the Spanish=speaking world, and Spanish-Americans are Hispanic according to the census, should it be mentioned that Garcia was a Hispanic? Also in the article it says his band member and widow scattered half of his ashes in the River Ganges- why? Were they just doing something weird that he never asked for, or did they do it because he was one of those rockstars who thought India was cool, or was he actually a Hindu? 71.241.250.239 (talk) 03:33, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Wolf -- signficant errors

I'm moving this paragraph from the article to here on the talk page:

"The above paragraph contains significant errors, in that Wolf was not delivered to Jerry until May 1973 [3] and therefore could not have been used during a European tour in 1972. Additionally Doug states that Jerry paid Doug directly and that Doug's contracts were between Doug and Jerry. Wolf is clearly an Irwin Guitar and only in recent revisionist history is Wolf referenced as an Alembic. However, the Grateful Dead also toured Europe in September 1974 so this may be the European tour of which the paragraph spoke."

The paragraph referred to is the one that starts, "During the Grateful Dead's European Tour, Wolf was dropped on several occasions, one of which caused a minor crack in the headstock. Garcia returned it to Irwin to fix..." The comment about the paragraph was originally added by Gr8fullfred, with this edit, and has been modified since that time. — Mudwater ^(Talk) 19:42, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

"Raunchy"

In the "Early life" section, The article says this about Garcia's first band: 'After performing and winning a contest, the band's reward was recording a song—they chose "Raunchy" by Bill Doggett'. But "the instrumental "Raunchy" was recorded by Bill Justis, not Doggett. Is there an error in the source or somewhere else? Graham87 00:24, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

Galician (Spanish)

I couldn't really find anything in the "Ancestry" discussion above that explains why regionality should precede nationality in the description of Garcia's heritage. The current formulation seems counter-intuitive; normally, one would expect things to move from the general to the specific, rather than the other way around. In the discussion above, someone made a comparision with Sardinia, but if Garcia's ancestry was Sardinian, surely we wouldn't phrase it as "Sardinian (Italian)"? It would be the other way around: "Italian (Sardinian)," as in "from Italy, but more specifically from Sardinia." In the same way, I think it should read "Spanish (Galician)" in this article; i.e. nationality first, regional identity second. Any thoughts on this? 130.238.66.184 (talk) 16:37, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

I think to the average reader, it's clearer to leave it the way it is, i.e. "Galician (Spanish)". It's not a hierarchy, it's phrased in a way that makes the most sense, I think, in English. So it's like saying, "His ancestry was Galician, and in case you're not familiar with what that means, and you want a more common term, his ancestry was Spanish." So, by the same token, we would in fact say, "His ancestry was Sardinian (Italian)". First comes the more direct and specific statement, and then in parentheses we clarify that for the less informed reader. P.S. Thanks for commenting on the article -- you're raising a reasonable point -- and I would also encourage you to check this out: Wikipedia:Why create an account?. — Mudwater ^(Talk) 22:17, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Discography Box

Apologies one and all. I seem to have thoroughly messed this box up. It was missing his albums with Howard Wales and Mother McCree's. In addition it listed Vintage NRPS as both a studio and a live album (it is a live album only). Further, I was trying to move the September 1, 1974 Pure Jerry release to the Jerry Garcia & Merl Saunders section (the band was not Legion Of Mary until Ron Tutt joined -- see the Legion Of Mary album liner notes for that explanation).

Anyway, in trying to correct these matters I seem to have discombobulated things past the point at which I could figure out how to undo the damage. I don't understand why the History tab didn't list my change; if it had I would have simply undid it.

In any case please help, and again my apologies! Cbben (talk) 16:52, 23 August 2012 (UTC)