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Numbers don’t lie – irrefutable evidence of the ineffable.
Numbers don’t lie – irrefutable evidence of the ineffable.


It’s good that music of Concert A = 432 Hz is the best fit too. Music this is tends to be harmonious and pleasing. Holophonics (sensing the Otoacoustic interference pattern) in A=432 Hz is Good.
It’s good that music of Concert A = 432 Hz is the best fit too. Music like this tends to be harmonious and pleasing. Holophonics (sensing the Otoacoustic interference pattern) in A=432 Hz is Good.


We have the evidence (refer the VBM and the ABHA 9x9 Tori) that a New Science is being re-discovered. Our current science is broken like Humpty Dumpty (an apt reference). It is irresistible…
We have the evidence (refer the VBM and the ABHA 9x9 Tori) that a New Science is being re-discovered. It is irresistible… Our current science is broken like Humpty Dumpty (an apt reference).


Anyone that deletes this will have egg on their face.
Anyone that deletes this will have egg on their face.

Revision as of 20:34, 14 January 2013

Morphogenesis

Morphic resonance is fundamentally a theory of morphogenesis. I have therefore added morphogenesis to the topics he writes about. Hrafn has deleted this reference on the grounds that "morphic fields are not part of developmental bio." While it's true that mainstream theory does not include morphic resonance (which involves morphic fields), this does not change the fact that Sheldrake is writing about morphogenesis. He is simply advocating a theory of morphogenesis not currently in the mainstream.

Alfonzo Green (talk) 19:59, 27 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

[I]t's true that mainstream theory does not include morphic resonance. Well, that answers your question, doesn't it? Wikipedia is a mainstream encyclopaedia. So fringe ideas that are not generally considered part of morphogenesis are out. Guettarda (talk) 03:44, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
So fringe ideas that are not generally considered part of morphogenesis are out.
What a jokester you are, Guettarda.
Alfonzo Green, rest assured that there is no basis in Wikipedia policy for Guettarda's laughable assertion. — goethean 21:19, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Goethean, you really shouldn't mislead new editors. You are well aware that if morophometric resonance isn't considered part of morphogenesis except by fringe sources, we can't claim that it is. We can't throw out the need for reliable sources just because you don't like it. Guettarda (talk) 12:11, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Lets be civil and keep to the points. I think Green wants Sheldrake to be labeled a biologist. I think Guettarda is saying by mainstream standards Sheldrake isn't a biologist. According to WP:Fringe we present information from the mainstream perspective especially when it concerns science. Minority views are presented fairly but they are presented as the minority view and to no greater degree than their notability.--OMCV (talk) 22:59, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not saying he's not a biologist. I'm saying that we can't call this morphogenesis if the mainstream rejects the idea that it is morphogenesis, which is what Green appears to be saying. Guettarda (talk) 12:22, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
If they're sufficiently far out on the fringe as to be generally regarded as pseudoscience, then yes they "are out". Claims having their basis in morphic resonance (and similar) have zero acceptance in biology, and therefore should not be labelled as being part of legitimate subfields of it. HrafnTalkStalk(P) 04:11, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Why does the lead say Sheldrake researches and writes on morphogenesis (with no source), yet the article talks about "morphogenetic fields" (which are "probability structures"), and does not mention morphogenesis? Do we have a WP:RS saying that Sheldrake writes on morphogenesis (the concept used by mainstream science), or that "morphic resonance is fundamentally a theory of morphogenesis" (a claim made above)? Johnuniq (talk) 05:08, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]


While I think OMCV's addition of "nonstandard views" is an improvement, I can't help thinking that the lead is more than a little meandering. The hierarchical relationship appears to be something like this:

…but the lead goes from the middle level to the top level to the detailed level.

Something like the following might be better:

…who now researches and writes on his theory of morphic resonance, and its implications for parapsychology (animal behaviour, memory, telepathy, perception and cognition in general) and for his non-standard views on morphogenesis (animal and plant development).

But regardless of the exact layout, it should expand outward from Sheldrake's core idea of morphic resonance. HrafnTalkStalk(P) 12:53, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

We can be sure Sheldrake wrote about morphogenesis just by reading Maddox's "A book for burning". Frankly I don't know Sheldrakes work, as a whole, well enough to know if it is built around a concise thesis. I suspect from what I've have seen that he meander...but I think Hrafn's suggested text is good.--OMCV (talk) 01:43, 30 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Morphogenesis is Sheldrake's primary focus for the simple reason that it's the most fundamental topic his theory addresses. When Darwin was young, it was known as evolution, a Latin word meaning "to unfold," as in a scroll. Gestation had long been viewed as the unrolling of a preformed person. By Darwin's day it was obvious that embryonic "evolution" was a passage from undifferentiated tissue through intermediate forms resembling worm, fish, amphibian, reptile and mammal. As Robert J Richards points out, this is where Darwin got the idea for descent with modification, a.k.a. "evolution" (The Meaning of Evolution Cambridge 1992). Darwin realized that human embryogenesis recapitulates our phylogenetic origins. In a very rough sense, the embryo is the microcosm of the evolutionary history of the species to which it belongs.

While evolution, by its new meaning, solves the problem of how species come into being, we still don't understand evolution by its old meaning, now known as morphogenesis. We don't understand in any kind of depth either the differentiation of embryonic cells or the development of the embryo as a whole. In the first chapter of A New Science of Life, after setting the stage with a two-page intro on the dominant viewpoint in biology, Sheldrake addresses "the problems of morphogenesis," starting with a standard definition of the term: "the coming into being of characteristic and specific form in living organisms" (Needham 1942). So he's not writing about "nonstandard views of morphogenesis" but morphogenesis itself, as ordinarily defined.

After the introductory chapter, Sheldrake gets down to business in chapter 2, "Three Theories of Morphogenesis." These are materialism (Weismann), vitalism (Driesch) and organicism (Whitehead). His own hypothesis fits within the third tradition, which rejects a principle or "force" exclusive to life but also denies that a strictly materialistic or reductionist explanation will ever account for the holistic nature of organic forms. The next three chapters address form as a general topic, the traditional concept of morphogenetic fields, and the possibility that past forms directly influence current organic activity. With all this background in place, he is ready, in chapter 6, to introduce his main idea, "Formative causation and morphogenesis." With his theory fleshed out, so to speak, Sheldrake devotes the remaining chapters to subsidiary topics such as inheritance, behavior, instinct and learning, and so on.

Alfonzo Green (talk) 06:27, 30 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]


Green:

  1. Please demonstrate how Sheldrake's claims on dog telepathy, "a sense of being starred at", crystal melting points, etc, etc relate to morphogensis rather than morphic resonance. The Sheldrake quote in Morphic field#Morphogenetic field clearly demonstrates that Sheldrake considers morphic fields/morphic resonance to be the general concept, with its application to morphogenesis a subset.
  2. Please provide a citation for a mainstream work on morphogenesis that includes morphic resonance-based claims as part of that field. That Sheldrake claims that his ideas address morphogenesis is not evidence that they have any acceptance within that field.

HrafnTalkStalk(P) 08:20, 30 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

To begin with, the lead is supposed to summarise the article, but the article doesn't discuss morphogenesis. If it's not in the article, doesn't belong in the lead. Secondly, we need secondary sources to call Sheldrake's work "morphogenesis". You can't cite a book of his to support an extraordinary claim like this. Finally, how can we call something a "theory" when it appears to lack empirical evidence? Hypothesis, perhaps, but not theory. Guettarda (talk) 12:27, 30 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I have made the case, as clearly as it can be made, that Sheldrake's primary topic is morphogenesis. To continue disagreeing is to demonstrate unwillingness to reason.
Morphic resonance is intended as a mechanism of morphogenesis, with applications to other biological phenomena. Regardless of how his work has been greeted by mainstream researchers, that he is writing about morphogenesis can easily be confirmed by consulting his work.
However, I agree with Guettarda that morphogenesis should not appear in the lead without also appearing in the body of the article. I have attempted to introduce material on morphogenesis in the section on A New Science of Life, but my efforts have been blocked by editors unfamiliar with Sheldrake's work.
Alfonzo Green (talk) 00:33, 3 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]


Green:

  1. Kindly peddle your faux-martyrdom elsewhere -- I ain't buying.
  2. The material that you introduced into the 'A New Science of Life' section traces his favoured "historical approach" to Alfred North Whitehead, a philosopher with no apparent involvement in biology -- indicating that it most likely has no scientific basis whatsoever. I also note that Terence McKenna also cites Whitehead as the inspiration for his ludicrously incoherent timewave zero theory -- hardly good company. I am therefore placing a 'dubious' tag on this approach for its lack of verifiable provenance in scientific research.
  3. I will note that you have failed to address my point that morphic resonance underlies Sheldrake's research well beyond his morphogenesis claims.

HrafnTalkStalk(P) 03:22, 3 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
(Kindly don't butcher my posts for your convenience HrafnTalkStalk(P) 21:25, 3 August 2009 (UTC) )[reply]


  1. Nor am I selling. Try to avoid projecting your emotions.
    • Whitehead theorized extensively in biology. You're taking labels like "philosopher" and "biologist" too literally.
    • Gratuitous charge. Guilt by association is not valid logic.
  2. Of course he goes beyond morphogenesis. Nonetheless, morphic resonance is intended, first and foremost, as an explanation of morphogenesis. Alfonzo Green (talk) 19:51, 3 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Numerous philosophers, from Aristotle onwards, have "theorized extensively in biology". This does not bestow any scientific credence on their theorising. Oh, and my comment on "company" was a mere afterthought/observation. HrafnTalkStalk(P) 21:25, 3 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Merger proposal

I'm suggesting merging the article on Dr. Sheldrake's theory, Morphic field into this one. No reason to have two articles which are really about the same topic. Northwestgnome (talk) 20:16, 18 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I preformed a rough merger help in cleaning it up would be appreciated.--OMCV (talk) 21:16, 18 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I've deleted the sections on scientific and popular reactions. The article lists five scientists who are on record in support of Sheldrake's work: David Bohm, Janis Roze, Hans-Peter Durr, Sue Ann Miller and Amit Goswami. The claim that all published responses from scientists are negative is thus contradicted within the article itself. Steven Rose's viewpoint is already covered elsewhere in the article. Sheldrake's proposal is intended to be scientifically rigorous and testable, so "new age" impressions are niether here nor there.

Alfonzo Green (talk) 20:24, 25 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The critique section you deleted is tied to the morphic field content. This section warrants a critique, no doubt it needs work but it still not clear there has been any support from anything but the extreme fringes of the scientific community for the morphic field ideas. For example, if you check the reference tied to Sue Ann Miller she does not voice support for Sheldrake's ideas, she only questions the status quo. Amit Goswami is perhaps the only blatant support but he is not exactly main stream science. Lets try and fix the section but it can't be just purged.--OMCV (talk) 16:40, 29 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The section is not only redundant but misleading, as it implies that John Maddox was a scientist. Alfonzo Green (talk) 03:18, 12 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The editor User:SlimVirgin relocated and adjusted the section you just deleted. As far as I can tell she looks favorably on Sheldrake. I didn't challenge her edits because they helped to organize the article and seemed mostly fair and balanced. Still the article, in its current form, does a very poor job of explaining that Sheldrake's idea and work are way outside the mainstream science. This article should be edited in the context of WP:Fringe. In contrast to Sheldrake, John Maddox was an active member of the mainstream scientific community his entire career, its hard to get more mainstream than playing a central role at Nature. Claiming John Maddox wasn't a scientist is absurd.--OMCV (talk) 04:20, 12 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The reaction from respected scientists has been overwhelmingly negative, largely because Sheldrake appears to think that by giving names to nebulous concepts like "morphic resonance" that he has created a "theory" of something.

The section on the reception of his ideas might lead someone to think that there is only a tiny handful of scientists who quibble with Sheldrake's research -- a colossally misleading impression.

It reads something like a publicity blurb written by Sheldrake and/or his supporters.Daqu (talk) 17:10, 7 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

P.S. To this end, I have now moved the last paragraph from the "Morphic field" section (starting with "Sheldrake's work has little support in the mainstream scientific community") to now be the first paragraph in the "Reception" section.Daqu (talk) 17:32, 7 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hypothesis

Sheldrake's work is hypothesis that nature finds modalities of form following function, also know by Sheldrake's Morphogenic Resonance in the 1990's in america. On a silica-acid based world there could be snails, sponges, and ferns in oceans, because the form follows the function of simplest robust compact growth systems, or volume filtration, or thin film filtration systems. Same on a petrochemical solvent world like Titan type places, the same forms could resonate with the physics, with accompanying dimensional analysis translation to account for viscosity and chemistry differences, perhaps leading to smaller snails and larger cell sponges, for hypothetical example. Same on a water based carbon compund planet, we live on. It is all just fluids, solids, reactions, diffusion rates, molecular code networks powered by the sun, and propagations, in complex reaction systems, in a morphic field of a matter confluence system locus in time and space. In a way, just like galaxies, planets, and stars that naturally resonate with the disk and spherical forms, due to nothing more than centrifugal effects and gravity on natural matter fields - perhaps the first persistent morphic field system in time space, beyond the atom and molecule. The natural form of Unit Analyis fused with Spatial Structures. It only takes a few spatial temporal differential reaction systems to create a natural sponge form in the ocean, because the scales of matter produce a morphogenic resonance field architecting a sponge blindly from these forms by natural chemical "instinct" inherent-laws, for lack of alternate term for systems where "form follows function" and "function follows form", simultaneously, at the system level, and not impossible to generate, due to the synergy of the best reaction systems of a rich combinatorial chemistry endures the most exactly where form follows function, and all other reaction systems are less fit or durable in time space. LoneRubberDragon (talk) 15:08, 26 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Similarly, on earth, natural combinatorial chemistry under cyclic loading of sunlight could naturally lead to photosynthetic compound networks that lead to eventiual natural photosynthesys. And when glucoses and other energy bearing molecules are formed, other reaction networks can coalesce based on them spontaneously, by dissipating energy at night stored in daytime sugars, leading to metabolism reaction networks, and the evential inheritor of mitochondiral systems and cellular metabolism. Here entire netowrks of durable fit reactions are what evolve at once, from purely statistical spatial reaction laws in time and space. LoneRubberDragon (talk) 15:08, 26 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

And by now, the DNA similarity between humans and primates, can be of common descent, or of morphic resonance in DNA systems, or combination of these effects, though judging the proportions based on the scale of one to one matching is common descent and / or DNA systems morphic resonance, is a high systems question beyond most analytical methods for a few years to come. LoneRubberDragon (talk) 15:08, 26 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEk6ESOZOdU LoneRubberDragon (talk) 15:17, 26 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Same thing for hands, legs, and wings, et cetera, which can have parallel evolution of form following function, in fluids, or land travel, or handling objects in evolutionary fitness. As can be seen in mamalian whale fins, flying mammal bats, flying insects, flying reptiles, flying fish, flying squirrels, walking lung fish, and such. Likewise, morphic fields as mentioned before, in unit analysis translation convert dimensions like the oversize whale, and long limbs that can form in crab like animals, and jellyfish that would only survive as slime mold form wor worm on land, because water, like zero gravity, transforms the morphic field dimensions of analysis. The same external physics forces producing the same forms in another dimension of heirarchy step levels, like combinatorial chemistry does in biochemical levels. LoneRubberDragon (talk) 15:17, 26 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

These themes follow also from know experiments in self organizing systems, where basic rules, and environment holistic systems dynamics can lead to similar morphogenic resonance. Self assembling circuits are one example in research recently. Kohonen studies such methods in numerical self organizing maps near the saddle point between nyquist fields and cluster analysis where sample data is sparse, compared to, say, the material numerical statistical natural combinatorial chemistry, that may lead to abogenesis and biological structures once that data is acquired by natural systems (also known as Hypercycles in the 1990's). Chaos, entropy of various assmebled systems, and attractors are also involved, as the below articles indicate, for making such morphogenic resonance fields. LoneRubberDragon (talk) 00:47, 27 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-organized_criticality

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-organizing_map

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self_organization

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morphogenesis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Complete_spatial_randomness (I Agree, LoneRubberDragon post) LoneRubberDragon (talk) 13:08, 27 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]


Of course, the hardest thing to test, is the morphogenic resonance of similar structured systems, caused by, hypothetically, say, the quantum entanglement systems of shared energy level patterns and forms, in processing material planes. Like two humans given the exact same set of information, or an array of animals with the exact same set of training to increase SNR detection in the array. Is commonality a pure reductionist biochemistry effect, and / or the virtually impossible to measure internal states of distributed matter states in quantum entanglement, like a Zen state of shared consciousness? Those, like Many World's Theory Quantum Physics, may remain untestable hypothesis with equal footing with similar untestable, but useful to pragmatic research ideas that are not disproven but identical formulations, like Bohm Hidden Variable equivalencies with Copenhagen Interpretation, which help produce useful ways of thinking even if unproveable - an eternal hypothesis at the infiniteis as Liebnitz might say, like the scientifically unshareable consciousness. Aspects unlike Luminiferous Aether Hypohtesis, that the Michaelson Morley experiment tested, and could disprove. But given these states are virtually impossible to share, supporters of quantum entanglement resonance fields, like Roger Penrose, may never be able to have a testable scientific hypothesis, like Many Worlds Theory or Bohm Hidden Variable models equally useful for thinking and analysis, but unproveable, at this level of analysis in the heirarchy of internal entangled wavefunctions in systems, that are indistinguishable models at this scale of lowest baseband sensitivity resolution. LoneRubberDragon (talk) 15:17, 26 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:LoneRubberDragon#Spirit_and_the_matter._Quantum_data_dan_ser_material_plane._Holism_and_the_Reductionism._Simultaneously. (On Leibnitz Monadologie translated from the French on Project Guttenberg) LoneRubberDragon (talk) 13:08, 27 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, I can't tell from Japan if NO ORIGINAL RESEARCH means 腦 original research. LoneRubberDragon (talk) 13:27, 27 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

reception section

Even Discover Magazine, a popular source with a penchant for courting controversy, makes it very clear that Sheldrake's ideas are roundly rejected. However, the non-representative sliver of supportive or not-quite-dismissive quotes in that article have been extracted, foregrounded, and exaggerated.

Sheldrake's ideas are generally considered to be pseudoscience. Period, full stop. You can go on after that to talk about whatever tiny fraction of scientific commentators have expressed whatever small reservations. But you have to start with the mainstream view, contextualized as the mainstream view. TiC (talk) 23:02, 23 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. Please see my Feb. 7 2012 comments above in the Talk section "Scientific and popular reactions".Daqu (talk) 17:39, 7 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject, but actually there are a few points here.

Why is WP so conservative? It seems clear to me that this article needs to be broken up into several sub-articles, but notices like these seem to be trying to shut down the discussion before it begins.

My mistake, it's a boiler plate... oh well... the rest of my rant is still valid IMHO. --Dan|(talk) 22:08, 12 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Does WP have articles on National socialism or Stalinism? Of course, because Wikipedians are trusted to present those topics without prejudice. Why is it that when it comes to scientific thought that isn't mainstream, everyone panics and we get lock-down? Can't we be trusted to present scientific ideas in such a way that it isn't taken to be truth, but simply hypothesis? Just because morphogenesis is controversial, doesn't mean it shouldn't have it's own article. It's quite a mainstream topic. Why is it that other controversial aspects of WP are presented accurately, but the prevailing thought seems to be that non-mainstream science must be almost entirely removed?

No doubt someone will tell me this is not the place for such comments, and will probably delete my argument. But seriously, I think we need a rethink on topics like these. Look at the banner on this page, for example:

"This article's introduction section may not adequately summarize its contents."


Well of course not, this articles contents are a dumping ground for concepts that should be in their own pages.

I find it hard to believe that even books by Sheldrake redirect here. How many of Lewis Wolperts books just point back to his page? Oh, right, his books are mainstream science and are therefore more deserving of WP pages... when did we decide that? Should we start to ditch pages for books that espouse ideologies that we don't agree with just because they are 'controversial'?


If you're going to delete this discussion, please advise me where it should be conducted. Please don't silence this debate just because you think you're doing the right thing or protecting the children or something.

Since when was scientific censorship better than any other kind?

Cheers, --Dan|(talk) 22:02, 12 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I regard it as ethically unacceptable and impractical to censor any aspect of trying to understand the nature of our world.
- Lewis Wolpert
I think the key difference is that Wolpert is an accepted leader in his field, (you know, Fellow of the Royal Society and all that). Sheldrake is an ex-Royal Society Research worker who has some extremely unorthodox views which are largely ignored by the scientific community. Either the scientific community is mistaken, in which case, Sheldrake will be proved right in due course by experimentation as part of the scientific process, or he's wrong. Sheldrake's books may be worth splitting off if you can either (a) find enough reviews of them (especially those in peer reviewed journals) and/or (b) demonstrate that they're popular, or that (c) that new research has been published as a result of them. I am not a dog (talk) 11:03, 1 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Regarding the accusation of "censorship" of the articles on Sheldrake's individual books. I am personally convinced, that of Sheldrake's books A New Science of Life *may* deserve its own article, on the basis of the review by Sir John Maddox DOI: 10.1038/293245b0 and Adam Rutherford's opinion in The Guardian [1] and whatever else can be found. Other reviews are mentioned by Freeman could also be included there.
The others, I'm not so sure, it depends on sources. Two of Sheldrakes other books Seven Experiments That Could Change the World (sic - it should be Seven Experiments that Could Change the World) old version was back door deleted by user:Fireplace [2], and The Sense of Being Stared At (again sic - it should be The Sense of Being Stared at) old version was back door deleted by user:Hrafn [3].
As for concepts, morphogenesis isn't controversial. Sheldrake's explanation for it is. I am not a dog (talk) 22:36, 5 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"If no reliable third-party sources can be found on a topic, Wikipedia should not have an article on it." (WP:V) A WP:REDIRECT is a common remedy for such articles, and one explicitly contemplated by WP:BEFORE as being explored before deletion is contemplated. Calling them 'back door deletes' is therefore both misleading and a violation of WP:AGF. Additionally, if anybody can find third-party sourcing, there is nothing whatsoever to prevent them being restored from being redirects. HrafnTalkStalk(P) 04:24, 6 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hrafn, you are certifiably violating WP:AGF by accusing me of violating WP:AGF when I'm clearly not; I am merely describing what you've done, not making judgement on that. It's User:dmb000006 who's (apparently) unhappy with your action, and if he wants to contest deletion by going to WP:DRV he can but I'm not going to fight his battles for him when I broadly agree with what you've done. I've looked for sources (reviews) of The Sense of Being Stared At and can't really find any; Sheldrake is being ignored by real scientists. Maybe User:dmb000006 can find some other sources and demonstrate its notability. I am not a dog (talk) 15:06, 7 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Please point to a relevant definition of wikt:backdoor or wikt:back door that is not pejorative in this context ("criminal" or "secret", the choice is yours). Also WP:DRV is neither necessary nor relevant -- as no deletion (or any other administrative action) occurred, and therefore no such action needs to be reversed. This is yet another reason why I find people continually conflating redirection with deletion so very very annoying. A redirection is not a deletion (back-door, front-door, side-door, rear-window, balcony, or otherwise). It neither requires the same procedures to perform one, nor to reverse one. A redirection is an editorial action, not an administrative one. As such, all it needs is a WP:CONSENSUS. Where such a consensus exists (either explicitly, via a WP:MERGE proposal, or implicitly via WP:SILENCE over the redirect), it is perfectly acceptable, and not even remotely "back door", to do so. HrafnTalkStalk(P) 15:32, 7 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hrafn, there is really no need to be so angry. However, redirecting an article without prior discussion (such as a formal deletion discussion), or even giving adequate explanation, is a unilateral action, and you cannot act unilaterally while claiming consensus. Actually, like I said, I agree with you, and it may well be within the rules, but I think back door deletion is a perfect description of what you did. I am not a dog (talk) 19:58, 7 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  1. Unilateral actions happen on Wikipedia all the time -- that's why we have WP:BOLD. Only when an action is likely to be controversial does it need to be discussed in advance. And a redirection of a short, unsourced article, which fails to articulate a clear claim to notability, is a no-brainer. Yes, we could have WP:SPEEDYed them -- but a redirect is less disruptive, and makes it easier for somebody searching on the book to find the author. Wikipedia is WP:NOTBUREAUCRACY, and a prior consensus is not needed for uncontroversial actions that do not require administrative tools.
  2. I did in fact provide an "adequate explanation": "Non-notable book redirected to author". Per both {{notability}} and WP:BEFORE, redirection is an explicitly recommended remedy for lack of notability.
  3. Yes I bloody well can "act unilaterally while claiming consensus" -- please read WP:SILENCE, have a WP:TROUT, and get a clue.
  4. Claiming something is any form of deletion, when it is obviously not a deletion, as (i) it is not listed as one of the processes within WP:Deletion policy), (ii) it is explicitly recommended as an avenue to explore WP:BEFORE deletion is contemplated, and (iii) it does not require administrative tools, which a deletion always does (one of the reasons we have such extensive, and formalised, procedures for them), is hardly "perfect".

In summary, it is within both the letter and the spirit of Wikipedia policy to perform redirects unilaterally where doing so is uncontroversial (particularly in the case of short unsourced non-notable articles). I am going to continue to perform such actions, and make no apology for doing so. I will also continue to correct anybody who makes the obvious mistake of conflating WP:DELETION with something that is not a deletion. HrafnTalkStalk(P) 04:12, 8 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hrafn, don't understand why you are being so angry about this. I merely described what you did, an action on which I am not making a value judgement on. Perhaps you should take your own advice and WP:AGF rather than tying your panties in a knot? Quite clearly WP:SILENCE does not apply because of User:dmb000006's comments above. Please try to remain on topic, your bizarre insinuations that I am accusing you of malpractice are absurd and quite frankly insulting. I am not a dog (talk) 11:24, 8 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I would take 4-5 years of WP:SILENCE to be a 4-5-year long implicit WP:CONSENSUS, to be replaced by an explicit one now that somebody has actually bothered to bring it up on talk. That's the way Wikipedia works. If you don't want me to continue to animadvert about your "perfect description", then I would suggest that you cease rubbing my nose in it -- I am rather tired of the subject, and am willing to drop it if you are. HrafnTalkStalk(P) 11:39, 8 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Human Genome in Meltdown http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v493/n7431/full/nature11690.html

 Dr. Rupert Sheldrake has been saying this about the genome project for a LONG time. 

Pyramids need strong foundations - the weak are failing. Some strong ones in Bosnia I see too... Perhaps people had better start Respecting the Good work from these out-of-the-box thinking Doctors?

If you want the MATH of the Morphic Field then you may find Vortex Based Math and the ABHA 9x9 Tori interesting. It models DNA and everything else too.

Creation out of the Chaos from Phi-based geometry (platonic solids) tightened up with resonance.

Numbers don’t lie – irrefutable evidence of the ineffable.

It’s good that music of Concert A = 432 Hz is the best fit too. Music like this tends to be harmonious and pleasing. Holophonics (sensing the Otoacoustic interference pattern) in A=432 Hz is Good.

We have the evidence (refer the VBM and the ABHA 9x9 Tori) that a New Science is being re-discovered. It is irresistible… Our current science is broken like Humpty Dumpty (an apt reference).

Anyone that deletes this will have egg on their face.

82.127.43.154 (talk) 20:30, 14 January 2013 (UTC)SovEReign-SoEvReigns[reply]