Talk:Wilhelm II

Shakespeare Joke

The sentence at the beginning of the "Shadow Kaiser" section seems to come out of nowhere, has no relevance to the section and is a remarkably specific claim to make without a citation (I've added a citation needed flag)

Upon hearing that his cousin George V had changed the name of the British royal house to Windsor, Wilhelm remarked that he planned to see Shakespeare's play The Merry Wives of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha.

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1. Where does it come from? 2. Is it relevant (I think it's a nice piece of trivia)? 3. Where should it go?

NetHawk (talk) 02:22, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

It's certainly a fairly well-known story, although just possibly it could be apocryphal. PatGallacher (talk) 02:45, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

A link to Miranda Carter's George, Nicholas and Wilhelm: three royal cousins and the road to World War I , p. xxiii, has been provided.Italus (talk) 18:51, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

Should royals have their names in their native tongues?

Anyone interested, please take a look at this RfC. --Lecen (talk) 17:09, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

It seems there is not a consensus. I am for reverting to English name, which at least non-German speakers can pronounce, and is consistent with tradition for all nobility. It is quite pedantic to try and have all names in their original languages. To that effect, I am removing the note at the top which requests that the German name be use, at it references nothing authoritative, not even a discussion. — 189.61.24.117 (talk) 23:46, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

WILHELM is VERY rarely, if at all, referred to as 'William II' by historians. Within the historical community, ruler's names and titles are pronounced in the manner of their respective countries. Hence why we have Tsars and Czars and not 'Caesars' in charge of the Russian Empire and Spanish kings called Phillipe.--Crimzon2283 (talk) 14:44, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

The Kaiser and Tsar were not cousins

"He was related to many royal figures across Europe, and as war loomed in 1914, Wilhelm was on friendly terms with his cousins the Tsar Nicholas II of Russia and King George V of the United Kingdom."

Repeating this big lie over and over does not make it correct. King George V was cousin of Kaiser Wilhelm II because the King's father and the Kaiser's mother were siblings ( Edward VII and Victoria, children of Queen Victoria ).

King George V was also cousin of the Tsar because King George's danish mother Queen Alexandra's sister was the mother of the Tsar, being the wife of his predecessor.

That doesn't make the Tsar the cousin of the Kaiser at all. If King George was the cousin of the Kaiser through his father, and the cousin of the Tsar through his mother, that does not make the Tsar and the Kaiser cousins.

The Kaiser was a fourth or fifth cousin of the Tsar through some common ancestor in the 18th century.Eregli bob (talk) 03:58, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

it says Willi and Kicky were cousins (true)--it does not say first cousins. Willy signed his telegrams to Nicky "Your very sincere and devoted friend and cousin, Willy". See King, Kaiser, Tsar: three royal cousins who led the world to war (2007) by Catrine Clay - and note the book's title. Rjensen (talk) 04:05, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

They were cousins by marriage. Nicholas was married to Wilhelms first cousin Alexandra. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.77.127.106 (talk) 16:05, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

The closest actual relationship between the Kaiser and the Tsar, is that the Kaiser was the great-grandson of Prussian King Frederick William III of Prussia (1770-1840), through the direct Prussian male line, and the Tsar was the great-great-grandson of Frederick William III, as Frederick William's daughter Princess Charlotte became the wife of Nicholas II's great-grandfather Nicholas I of Russia. So Nicholas II was the Kaiser's second cousin, once removed.Eregli bob (talk) 07:38, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

Potsdam station, 26 July 1914

On 15 July 2012, I had added the following quotation, with the reference to page 103 of David Allen Butler's THE BURDEN OF GUILT: How Germany Shattered the Last Days of Peace, Summer 1914, which I added to the Bibliography. I do not understand why Rjensen removed it under the guise: "drop little anecdote mostly about someone else."

When Wilhelm arrived at the Potsdam station late in the evening of July 26, he was met by a pale, agitated, and somewhat fearful Chancellor. Von Bethmann-Hollweg's apprehension stemmed not from the dangers of the looming war, but rather from his fear of the Kaiser's wrath when the extent of his deceptions were revealed. The Kaiser's first words to him were suitably brusque: "How did it all happen?" Rather than attempt to explain, the Chancellor offered his resignation by way of apology. Wilhelm refused to accept it, muttering furiously, "You've made this stew, Now you're going to eat it!"

Italus (talk) 18:51, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

I believe he removed because it's the kind of quotation that could make sense in 400+ pages book, not in an article like this one. --Lecen (talk) 19:14, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

In my opinion this is an important quotation because it points to the deceptions by Bethmann-Hollweg and others while the Kaiser was on his annual cruise of the North Sea.Italus (talk) 19:41, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

Illegitimate son in Norway

This could very well be a well-kept secret, but as his illegitimate son Anders' family now has received their recognition from the remaining Preussen family in terms of titles I think this article should be updated to reflect this. Kaiser Wilhelm II had a son in Norway (Bergen to be exact) between 1898 and 1914 named Anders Fosse. Up until recently his descendants in Norway has fought for recognition and earlier this year (I imagine) they got their recognition. This is extremely hard to find information about on the Internet as I am not sure it is for everyone to know, so the source on this would have to be the descendants' respective name changes. Solarclock (talk) 13:00, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

Mentioned in the newspaper today in Norway. <http://www.smp.no/nyheter/alesundogomland/article499359.ece> Son was born in 1905 to Kaizer Wilhelm and a local unnamed woman from Sogn. The two met in Hardanger in 1904 and this woman attended many of Kaizer Wilhelm's travels during Summer time, for several years. The boy was named Anders Fosse as mentioned, and was adopted by a childrenless married couple after birth. The connection was confirmed by highest protector of the family, King of Spain, his majesty King Juan Carlos, this summer. Solarclock (talk) 22:07, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

A couple of questions - what is the basis for the claim that Juan Carlos is the "highest protector of the family"? What does that mean? Isn't Prince Georg Friedrich the head of the house? He's a grown man - why does he need a protector? Second, I'll just note a rather major error in that the article says Juan Carlos is protector of the Habsburg family - Kaiser Wilhelm was a Hohenzollern, not a Habsburg. john k (talk) 13:59, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Here is another article regarding the subject: <http://www.ba.no/nyheter/article6201889.ece> This one has slightly more information, and says they got in contact with the aforementioned prince eventually. I am fairly sure the article referred to earlier is saying that he is the "protector" (maybe 'guardian' could be a more precise word?) to both the Habsburgs and the Hohenzollerns. Citing the article it says (translated to English): "As the german emperor house (?) does no longer exist it is King of Spain, his majesty King Juan Carlos, who is the highest protector of the kaizer-heritage." Solarclock (talk) 22:27, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Antijudaism

The german Wikipedia article doesn't represent Emperor Wilhelm the second in anyway anti semitic. On the contrary he had a lot of jewish friends, opposed the national socialists in every way. He did not want to be buried with swastika or anything related to national socialism. He expressed his deepest rejection after the first anti jewish incidents after the Kristallnacht and urged every german to stand against it.

I believe that the sources who name Wilhelm the second as anti-Semitic are either out of the context or originate in unserious original research by a historian who published a book in which he expressed his wish thinking about Germany and an history of anti-Semitism, which has more to do with the historians narzism rather than reality.

I will as soon as possible work the article out and remove any false claims and accusations for Wilhelm the second. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.23.103.44 (talk) 04:11, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

better provide some sources for those unusual assertions. For example, Jonathan Petropoulos - 2006 p 104 says, "Wilhelm's second wife...was an enthusiastic supporter of the Nazis, as were several of the Kaiser's sons." As for the Jews, Lamar Cecil says: "Chamberlain's diatribes against the Jews were welcome to Wilhelm, for they confirmed his own curious but well-developed anti-Semitism." in 1888 a friend of Wilhelm, "declared that the young Kaiser's dislike of his Hebrew subjects, one rooted in a perception that they possessed an overweening influence in Germany, was so strong that it could not be overcome. Wilhelm never changed, and throughout his life he believed that Jews were perversely responsible, largely through their prominence in the Berlin press and in leftist political movements, for encouraging opposition to his rule. For individual Jews, ranging from rich businessmen and major art collectors to purveyors of elegant goods in Berlin stores, he had considerable esteem, but he prevented Jewish citizens from having careers in the army and the diplomatic corps and frequently used abusive language against them." see full text at LaMar Cecil (1996). Wilhelm II: Emperor and Exile, 1900-1941. UNC. p. 57. Rjensen (talk) 07:39, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

We live in a time in which modern historians interpret history over the acceptance of primary and secondary commonly accepted knowledge, that serves to support their claims based on 2 dimensional categorizations, independent if they are right or not. For example the National socialistic "Totenkopf" division is named as a Nazi elite military unit, which is completely insane as the wikipedia article is. As you have been taught in school, this unit included jewish german sodliers who were sent to the division during the dejewification process of the german military during the third reich (of whom you had a lot, prior to world war 2, millions of jews lived in Germany, with access to the military). Political oppositionists as well as captured Russians, poles, Czechs, etc. everyone with military experience, who was named by the Nazis as "from lesser origin" has been used in that unit, why it always saw frontline assignments. The Japanese did the same with Japanese with Chinese ancestry, see sino-japanese kamikaze pilots. That what is published in Wikipedia is sometimes farer away from the truth than anyone can imagine. The same occurs for Wilhelm the second. Everytime when tertiary knowledge is required it is always replaced by 2 dimensional commonly accepted misjudgment, because the same discussions happened over and over again: "These are no solid sources", "The usual historians agreed on this interpretation of the history..." etc... then you only use any source, serious or not,...Cecil, Röhler, Kast....etc... add them in a text in Wikipedia together with a denunciation in form of an accusation of the latest comment and everybody believes it. Most persons know what iam talking about. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.23.103.30 (talk) 15:59, 3 April 2013 (UTC)