Talk:Artpop

Redirects

I created the following redirects to Artpop:

• A Lover's Hideaway
• Aura (song)  Done
• I Wanna Be with You (Lady Gaga song)
• Jailhouse (song)
• Jewels and Drugs  Done ("Jewels n' Drugs"?)
• Manicure (song)  Done
• Paid (song)
• Queen (song)
• Reverie (song)
• Sex Dreams Sexxx Dreams  Done
• Swine (song)  Done
• Thunder in My Heart (Lady Gaga song)
• Trash (Lady Gaga song)
• Under Fire (song)

I have already checked for proper disambiguation, so please expand these redirects as article development begins. Thanks! --Another Believer _(Talk) 00:55, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

Why would you do that? The tracklist has not been confirmed so there is no proof any of these songs will make the album at all, let alone chart and have significant lasting notability per WP:NSONGS. So of them might end up on the album and become notable, but more than half of these redirects are clearly not viable search terms. Every one of them that are not official album tracks are going to end up being deleted by RfD. STATic message me! 07:03, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

Vincexgaga (talk) 09:31, 22 September 2013 (UTC) The only songs from there that are confirmed is Aura, I Wanna Be With You, Manicure, Sex Dreams and Swine. I have no idea where you got those from and those have not been mentioned by her at all. She is releasing the tracklist on the 29th of September so wait till then.

Update: I created redirects for the confirmed tracks, including some of the above plus:

• Tea (song)‎
• Guy (Girl Under You) G.U.Y.  Done
• Mary Jane Holland  Done
• Donatella (song)  Done
• Gypsy (Lady Gaga song)  Done
• Brooklyn Nights
• Temple (song)
• Do What You Want (With My Body) Do What U Want  Done

Apologies for creating incorrect redirects before--I did not realize I was viewing an unreliable source. Please feel free to delete the unnecessary redirects, which I have striked out above. I believe all of the redirects that have been created for the album adhere to Wikipedia's manual of style. --Another Believer _(Talk) 17:17, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

• Venus (Lady Gaga song)  Done
• Dope (Lady Gaga song)  Done

--Another Believer _(Talk) 04:14, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

I have requested that some of the links above be deleted. Others have been redirected to the appropriate existing disambiguation page (there are other songs by these titles). Question regarding naming conventions for two of the confirmed tracks: is "Sex Dreams" or "Sexxx Dreams" more in accordance with MoS? Ditto for "Jewels and Drugs" vs. "Jewels n' Drugs"? --Another Believer _(Talk) 15:56, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

The "Singles" section.

Please, for the love of god, can someone edit this? It looks like it was edited by Lady Gaga forum goers who watch every Lady Gaga tweet. Now, don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with that, but PLEASE stop it with the Twitter sources and editing the wiki page with EVERY thing she tweets about. It's kinda unnecessary! ~Sorry If I came on too harsh. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.200.28.218 (talk) 06:47, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

Why is the german release date listed?

Normally for american artists, the american release date is what is listed.

I know it's released in Germany first, but it seems odd. The media and the artist herself lists the date as November 11, so that should be under the release date. The overseas dates are secondary.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Born2booze (talk • contribs)

Actually, it's supposed to be the earliest release date in all cases. Sometimes we have trouble with American editors overwriting the dates with American release dates.—Kww(talk) 16:00, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

Currently, the German release date (November 8, 2013) is missing in the introduction and the section "Release history". Your best bet would be to name it alongside with german-speaking country Austria, wich is considered in the article. --79.240.169.154 (talk) 13:28, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

Fashion!

Do we know if "Fashion!" is this previously released song? --Another Believer _(Talk) 17:54, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

add Gypsy info please

source In the singles section, can someone add that on October 7, 2013 her official Facebook cover photo was updated showing the album's official cover art with text next to it that read: The new album featuring ‘Applause’ and ‘Gypsy' availalbe November 11". The cover was later updated and Gypsy was removed. but i still think its notable to be mentioned because it is a hint that Gypsy was supposed to be the second single before Gaga decided to go with Venus instead.

It is not necessary to. This page does not need to contain every little thing that happens leading up to the release. Vincexgaga (talk) 05:24, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

MANiCURE

Why is MANiCURE written as Manicure? It has a double meaning, the nail treatment and being cured by men, so it should be MANiCURE and not Manicure. Dope on the other hand should be written in lower case. 82.181.198.121 (talk) 13:47, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

"MANiCURE" would not follow Wikipedia's manual of style, as far as I can tell. The article title would be "Manicure", with a note that the text is stylized as "MANiCURE". See the article for "You and I" (Lady Gaga) for example. --Another Believer _(Talk) 16:37, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

Venus (Lady Gaga song)

The link above can be expanded as soon as enough information exists for the album's second single. --Another Believer _(Talk) 16:40, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

 Done. --Another Believer _(Talk) 22:36, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

Gypsy

GYPSY Gaga Said it was produced by Madeon AND Redone.

VENUS PRODUCER There is no confirmed producer for this. Why on earth would you list the rumoured female producer — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.251.247.211 (talk) 20:10, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 14 October 2013

Please change the phrase: "On October 4, a trailer for the movie Machete Kills, which marks Gaga's actorial debut," to "On October 4, a trailer for the movie Machete Kills, which marks Gaga's acting debut,"

I m requesting this change because actorial is not a word, and acting is a suitable replacement.

78.86.59.218 (talk) 09:12, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

Fixed. I've never heard of "actorial debut" before...only "acting debut", so I doubt there would be any reason to revert the change. Thanks for spotting that, 78.86.59.218. Acalamari 09:16, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

Actually, Wiktionary does say Actorial is a word. Doesn't hurt to clarify though. — Reatlas (talk) 09:21, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

Hmm. Thanks for pointing that out, Reatlas. :) Still, I think "acting" is probably a better word to use; it's more widely understood and "actorial" would likely have been changed, anyway. Acalamari 09:26, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

Tracks

"G.U.Y" is actually called "G.U.Y (Girl Under You)". "Do What U Want" is "Do What U Want (With My Body)". "Manicure" is "MANiCURE". "Artpop" is "ARTPOP". And "Dope" is "DOPE". Please change :):):) xxx — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.104.227.116 (talk) 15:38, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

Grammar fix

a revelation that instead was announced one month in advanced should read as a revelation that instead was announced one month in advance

(Forgive me if I'm submitting this wrong; I just made an account to point that out, since I can't edit the article myself.)

KeiBlossom (talk) 09:08, 16 October 2013 (UTC)KeiBlossom

Posting here was fine; you can use {{Edit semi-protected}} template to request changes to a semi-protected article if you need to. As for your suggestion, I've made the change; I'm not aware of any American/British English differences that would prefer "advanced" over "advance" in this case. Thanks. Acalamari 09:30, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

"I Wanna Be With You" VS "Dope"

So, although I'm not actually sure whether it's been officially confirmed or not, one of the songs that Gaga performed at the iTunes Festival "I Wanna Be With You" has been reworked into a new song on ARTPOP called "Dope". Fair enough. However, I noticed in the summary of the iTunes Festival (in 'Promotion'), it doesn't reference "I Wanna Be With You", but rather "Dope".

Should it not say that the song performed was "I Wanna Be With You", since it undeniably was called that at the time (complete with accompanying hashtag '#GagaIWannaBeWithYou') and was reported in sources as that? The rumours are only that "I Wanna Be With You" was REWORKED into "Dope", not that it's the same song just renamed. I don't know exactly how Wikipedia deals with things like this in regards to retrospect, but it's blatantly false to say that one of the songs that she performed at the iTunes festival was called "Dope", since there is simply no evidence that that is the case.

Of course, if "Dope" does turn out to be a reworked "I Wanna Be With You", which to be honest is looking much like the case, then a note should be made when mentioning "I Wanna Be With You" that it was reworked into "Dope". And if the section is changed back to read "I Wanna Be With You", the redirect I Wanna Be With You (Lady Gaga song) should link here again. FeFiFo (talk) 17:59, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

To avoid an edit war, I just want to clarify on here what I'm trying to say. We don't know how much of "I Wanna Be With You", if any, has been used in "Dope", and so we can't say with any certainty that they are the same song, just with different titles. No source lists the song as "Dope", while countless list it as "I Wanna Be With You", some of which have already been listed in previous discussions.

It is original research at the moment to say that "I Wanna Be With You" is an "old name". One of Gaga's previously unreleased songs "Earthquake" later had its chorus reworked into "Fashion of His Love" on Born This Way, but you wouldn't then say that "Earthquake" IS "Fashion of His Love". Until the official version of "Dope" is released, it's more reliable to treat "I Wanna Be With You" and "Dope" as separate songs, and to refer to the song performed at the iTunes Festival as "I Wanna Be With You", with a note saying that "I Wanna Be With You" does not appear on the ARTPOP tracklisting. — Preceding unsigned comment added by FeFiFo (talk • contribs) 21:34, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

Title errors

The track listing section has a few errors in it -

• "G.U.Y", is actually titled "G.U.Y (Girl Under You)", as confirmed by Gaga herself through the Little Monsters site [ref: https://littlemonsters.com/post/50913aafb11c7ab952001162]

• "Manicure" is to be written a "MANiCURE" as it has a double meaning.

• "Artpop" and "Dope" are both to be capitalised - "ARTPOP" and "DOPE" - as Gaga has confirmed through Twitter, her website and Instagram.

Please can you change as this article is incorrect!!!:( — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.104.230.131 (talk) 17:12, 20 October 2013 (UTC)

I'm not actually sure why "G.U.Y" often gets changed, but "Manicure", "Artpop" and "Dope" are all lowercased for a reason, see WP:ALLCAPS. These are not errors and the article title itself is lowercased. Acalamari 17:23, 20 October 2013 (UTC)

Just an FYI, "G.U.Y. (Girl Under You)" currently redirects to "G.U.Y." since more sources are printing the shortened version, or at least have thus far. The page can be redirected again if needed, assuming the subject gets enough material to warrant an article. --Another Believer _(Talk) 22:35, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

Few errors on tracklist.

It's spelled:

Jewels N' Drugs MANiCURE (with the 'i' being the only lower cased letter)

As confirmed on iTunes and Gaga on Twitter. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.200.28.218 (talk) 08:15, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

No, they are all stylization as per Wikipedia and the generic name for the songs has been selected. Its the same reason why names like Ke$ha, P!nk, A$AP Rocky are not alowed. —Indian:BIO · ^{[ ChitChat ]} 08:31, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

single release dates

I noticed that on the ARTPOP page, on the upper-right side of the page, under the album artwork, there are the singles listed with their release dates. Shouldn't the dates be changed for both to the official radio release dates? So Applause should be listed as August 19, 2013 and Do What U Want as November 5, 2013.
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.164.82.196 (talk) 03:19, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

No, because those are the dates when they were first released.

© Tbhotch^™ (en-2.5). 03:28, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

and the fact that radio releases are promotional singles, not singles themselves under industry standard.

RazorEye ⡭ ₪ ·o' ⍦ ࿂ 10:44, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

Venus the third single

Well, today (October 28, 2013) "Venus" was released for retail purchase on Amazon.com as a single. See this source. We should not be referring to this song as a promotional single, since if you read that article it says, "A promotional recording, or promo, is an audio or video recording distributed for free, usually in order to promote a recording that is or soon will be commercially available." So in turn because it was released to Amazon as a single, that makes "Venus" the album's third single. I would like to hear any logical objections that it is not a single, even though it received a retail release as a single. Keep in mind this is not a pre-order or countdown, it is an entire page dedicated to a retail release as single for the song.
STATic message me! 06:22, 28 October 2013 (UTC)

I second this. "Venus" was released as a single. Saying "Venus" is a promotional single is incorrect, because this implies that the song was either released as a free or retailer-exclusive single or it was released as a radio-only single. Since it is neither, and that it was released as single under the literal definition of a single, it should be documented as such. It's a matter of Seperation of word and action.
RazorEye ⡭ ₪ ·o' ⍦ ࿂ 06:57, 28 October 2013 (UTC)

Lemme ask you. Has the concerned artist or its label released it as a single? Has it officially given a press release(twitter, Reuters, Marketwire wateva) that "Venus" is the third single from Artpop? No they haven't since a google search labels "Venus" as such. Again, do not go by an unsourced Wikipedia article as to what constitutes a promo single or not. Wikipedia itself is a grossly unreliable source. Go by third party reliable sources or first party sources in this case the artist / label. Please can you show me where they have said such? I don't want to know whether it was released to Amazon, iTunes, Spotify etc etc. Those are all unreliable sources and do not hold a candle. —Indian:BIO · ^{[ ChitChat ]} 07:03, 28 October 2013 (UTC)

Third party sources calling Venus as promotional single:

And though "Venus" is now just a promotional single, Gaga assured fans... MTV News

Mother Monster takes listeners on a journey through "space and time" in "Venus," the new promotional single from her forthcoming third studio album "ARTPOP." .... HitFix

A snippet of "Venus," the latest promotional single from the singer's new album, Artpop, hadn't even been released yet ... Slant Magazine

The singer shocked clubbers at the famous London venue by taking to the stage to perform promotional single 'Venus' from her upcoming album ARTPOP... Digital Spy

while she strummed the opening chords of promotional single Venus on an acoustic guitar... Daily Mail

the second single from new album 'ARTPOP', but will now act as a promo track .. Capital FM

Venus was intended to be the second single from Gaga's upcoming album ARTPOP, but will now be used as a promotional track instead... MTV UK

... and the list goes on and on. I would be very much interested in seeing such sources calling "Venus" as the official single from Artpop. —Indian:BIO · ^{[ ChitChat ]} 07:15, 28 October 2013 (UTC)

We do not need a press release, a Twitter post or any other WP:SPS to verify that is up for retail sale as a single on Amazon.com, and if you can count that makes it the third single. That is also an awkward thing to ask for since radio releases are generally not publicly announced, but only found by following the various websites that report them. Again, that article is sourced, maybe articles you edit are unreliable but that is your own issue to handle. Hell look at that, it only took five seconds to find NME, Huffington Post, The Source following Do What U Want's release, that refer to the song as a single not a promotional single. Just yesterday MTV called it the next single. If that is not enough proof along with the Amazon release, I do not know what to say. Again I would like you to see the encyclopedia definition of a promotional single. Also all the sources you provided are from BEFORE it received its retail release as a single today. STATic message me! 07:22, 28 October 2013 (UTC)

You are confusing the fact that a promotional single is a "single" at the end of day. Just that it is not an officially released single for an artist's discography and chronology. And yes, you need to have a third party source calling this the third single from Artpop, else it is just a single, and as indicated by the sources above, a promo release. FYI, the MTV UK source calls it a single contradicting the source above I posted, along with Huffington Post, The Source, NME. They do not address it as the next official single by Gaga from Artpop. And I'm simply not interested in that unsourced Promotional recording article. I hardly go by what Wikipedia says since the website itself is grossly unreliable. So I'm not buying that. It is released to retailers, wonderful, you can buy it. Does that make it a single? No, that part is still not established. And who is this we you are talking about? You are here long enough to know that WP:V and WP:RS trumps all that we think off. I really do not care if "Venus" becomes a single, or is a promotional single or remains in Tim-buck-too. But I can see what third party reliable media is reporting and I cannot in any good faith come to a consensus over reliable sources. You wanna go by timestamps? The sources I posted are from 7 hours before, which is after "Venus" has been released as a digital download. Oh and since we do not have a precedence or previous consensus on this, why not discuss this once and for all so that it can be settled for any article facing such a situation? —Indian:BIO · ^{[ ChitChat ]} 07:39, 28 October 2013 (UTC)

I really am not interested in explaining to you what a single is since you do not understand obviously. The four sources I provided do refer to it as a single from Artpop, you are not going to see sources calling songs official singles. The promotional single article is not unsourced no matter how many times you want to falsely state so. Try to change it to your made up definition of a promotional single and see how fast it is reverted. Also refer to the many many discussions at WP: WikiProject Songs and WP: WikiProject Albums about this "promotional single" term, just search the archives, there are many many many discussions about this, but you must be new here to not know that. Every single discussion has decided that if a song is released for retail sale with its own download page on iTunes/Amazon it is a single. What it comes down to is that if a song is released for retail sale as a SINGLE with its own purchase page, that makes it a single, end of story, there is no real way arguing around it. The logic and consensus is against you no matter what way you want to put it. STATic message me! 07:54, 28 October 2013 (UTC)

I have much bigger knowledge of these terms than you want to believe so watever. Yes there are sources calling this as promotional single and you cannot deny that. The promotional single section is completely unsourced and might be fabricated for all we know, so there it goes out. TRy to change it with my made up definition? Lol, I fucking don't have any intention to have a made up definition and I go by sources (posted above for your blind eyes). Maybe you are the one who should be reverting for edit warring and content dispute? See how it works? And I see, you are talking about this discussion where no consensus was achieved. Or the handful of sections here? Or the discussions here where it talks about inclusion of Promo singles in album infobox? Again "What it comes down to is that if a song is released for retail sale as a SINGLE with its own purchase page, that makes it a single, end of story, there is no real way arguing around it" — is it the same we and logic that you spoke about above? Point is none of it is a precedence which is what I'm trying to achieve here. A consensus on this would affect a number of articles here in WP. You are saying this is a single since released to Amazon.com, but the same is valid for any song released there including fellow musician Perry's too. We cannot ignore the third party sources even if a discussion had taken place previously in light of recent events. —Indian:BIO · ^{[ ChitChat ]} 08:15, 28 October 2013 (UTC)

At the end of the day, though, there's nothing that can disprove that there's a single release out there. As I've said earlier, it's a matter of Seperation of Word and action. What I'm basically means is that you can list all the third party sources you want, but there is a primary source that proves that there's a single. Essentially it also means that anybody on any website can say anything. The record label, the artist, the newspapers, anybody can label it anything they want, but there's still a standard in the music industry they have to follow and we have to follow. It was released as a single in the literal definition of the word single. Nobody can disprove that since such a release exists. "but the same is valid for any song released there including fellow musician Perry's too." Unfortunately, those articles are completely incorrect since "Dark Horse" and "Walking on Air" are merely songs instead of Promotional singles, since they were only released through Prism itself on iTunes, and "Unconditionally" is a promotional single since it only ever was released to radio for airplay. So yeah, it should apply to Katy Perry too, but does it really?

P.S. "I have much bigger knowledge of these terms than you want to believe so watever." You've only ever given us the fact that you've been reading Wikipedia consensuses for these types of things. Unfortunately, this is not how you learn things, I'm afraid, and it's definitely NOT how you possess a "bigger knowledge" of knowledge of these terms so we "can believe whatever". Also, the last time I checked, saying something like that and "Lol, I fucking don't have any intention to have a made up definition and I go by sources (posted above for your blind eyes)." is definitely not how you talk to people, no matter how heated the discussion is.

RazorEye ⡭ ₪ ·o' ⍦ ࿂ 12:18, 28 October 2013 (UTC)

Dope (Lady Gaga song)

I started to expand the "Dope" article, now that is has been confirmed to be the next promo single, but it has since been nominated for deletion. Feel free to chime in on the discussion. Or, please feel free to assist with the article's expansion. Are there more article detailing the name change following her live performance of the song in the UK? --Another Believer _(Talk) 22:04, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

"Fashion" disambiguation

I am wondering about the best way to disambiguate Gaga's 2009 song "Fashion" with her 2013 song "Fashion!" Currently, Fashion (Lady Gaga song) redirects readers to the compilation album on which the song appears. Because I was not sure if the "Fashion!" that appears on Artpop was the same song or not, I did not create a separate redirect until more details were provided. I think we can assume now that, based on the writing credits, the songs are different. My understanding of disambiguation pages is that punctuation alone cannot differentiate articles, so creating Fashion! (Lady Gaga song) would not suffice. Should the previously-created redirect be moved to Fashion (2009 Lady Gaga song)? And the Artpop track Fashion! (2013 Lady Gaga song)? --Another Believer _(Talk) 20:13, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

If "Fashion!" is released (or have an article) the {{distinguish}} template is used. If both articles manage to have article, the year disambiguator is used. © Tbhotch^™ (en-2.5). 04:42, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

App details

Perhaps a section for the album app, including confirmed songs, the controversy re: album vs. app sales, etc.? --Another Believer _(Talk) 21:32, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

What a great idea - Added. With my body (talk) 22:50, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

The section entitled "Controversy," what proof or evidence is there regarding the app and it being hailed as a "nothing more than an elaborate way for Gaga to boost sales of Artpop?" The Billboard article doesn't really talk about anything beyond vague details concerning use of the app. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.171.13.1 (talk) 03:39, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

Pretty much original research at this point unless expanded. —Indian:BIO · ^{[ ChitChat ]} 04:45, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

There was no widespread controversy about the ARTPOP app. The issue was brought up by a notorious Lady Gaga hate site that claimed individual song purchases via the app would count as an entire app download, so downloading Applause alone would equate to one ARTPOP album sales. Bill Werde from Billboard quickly shot down this incredibly ridiculous accusation, noting on his Twitter page that of course single sales do not count for album sales, only album sales count for album sales.

Here are links to Bill Werde's tweets clearing up this so-called "controversy".

https://twitter.com/bwerde/status/362722995518709760 - Stating that if you BUY the album from within the app then of course it will count since the album is being bought.

https://twitter.com/bwerde/status/362723505986469888 - The Lady Gaga hate site claimed Gaga's team would "lie about album sales through the app to boost sales", Bill said not true.

https://twitter.com/bwerde/status/362726550745001985 - Confirming that one song purchase WILL NOT COUNT as an entire album purchase.

So far the album itself has been controversy-free. That might change in the future considering it's Lady Gaga. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Anthagio (talk • contribs) 08:43, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

Pre release

It might make sense to add information about pre-release to Release history. It was pre-released in UK to O2 Tracks customers on October 26. See Lady Gaga's ARTPOP available exclusively on O2 Tracks pre-release. Xdmytro (talk) 15:29, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

Also this article from Billboard talks about the app and its development. —Indian:BIO · ^{[ ChitChat ]} 04:49, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

Leaked in full

The album has been leaked in full. Please check with the news agencies and update. --117.213.220.20 (talk) 07:12, 10 November 2013 (UTC)